Prosper Roqua vs the Codex: Is select-all-and-attack enough to kill anything in the IE games? DISCUSS!

[Roqua]

I learned some stuff though. My rogue is the weak link. Either the new scripts has everyone go after your lead or swashbucklers just suck and can't take take hits even though mine has the same ac as most of my warriors. Also, my issues with spells in this game is they take so fucking long to cast. By the time it goes off the reason I wanted to cast it isn't even around any more.

SCS changes enemy targeting patterns, but this is layered on top of BG pathfinding issues and general ai issues, so it doesn't always work as well as it should. Rogues tend to go after characters with lowest hitpoints and worst armor, so if that is your lead, they will go after them. Melee opponents tend to switch targets if their opponent is immune to melee damage (e.g. protection from magical weapons spell). Mages tend to avoid casting spells that a character is protected against (e.g. charms on a fighter wearing the harmony shield). "Tend to" - because this doesn't always work, but often enough that it is noticeable.

This is also why one of easiest lead characters is a gnomish fighter/illusionist. In most encounters he can just wear armor and forget about spells. But there are some noticeable high level fights that he can take the armor off and make himself immune to everything through protective spells. E.g. protection from magical weapons against melee, spell immunity: enchantment against mind affecting spells, though spell immunity: abjuration is far more important, because of the imprisonment spell. No save, isn't stopped by magic resistance; the only thing that protects from it is berserker rage, prot. from magic scroll and spell immunity abjuration, and it is game over if cast on your main character. In the original game there were maybe two enemies that used it, but there are a few more in SCS.

Or instead of a shaman, take a mage/cleric (Aerie) - they can cover all spellcasting, can hold off enemy rogues with a stoneskin spell, can turn undead and slings are better than bows in BG2 anyway.
edit: and if you have an issue with spellcasting times: Robe of Vecna. Can be bought from Deidre in Adventurer's mart, reduces casting time by 4. Together with the amulet of power (main quest item, reduces casting time by 1) means a lot of spells are cast instantly. Mages/clerics get the most of it, since it works on divine spells too.

I want to apologize for the mean and hurtful things I said about you. I have anger issues and tent to be overly hostile when confronted. And it is hard to determine the users of normal intelligence from the hordes of monkey retards that infest this site. Well, I sincerely apologize for what I said and take the unnecessary stuff back.

The SCS with all prebuffing mages and clerics, and all spell casters get HLAs (and I selected HLAs as intrinsic abilities instead of spells but I'm not sure what that does or if it mages things better or worse) definitely improve combat in this game significantly. I took me a bunch (around 5, maybe even 10) tries to win the upstairs inn fight at the promenade.

But, I am going to double down on my original assertion. I am doing far worse with arcane casters in my group. This may change when I get some equipment in later areas but I dropped the second guy I made and now have a party of Minsc, Druid lady, Circus winged elf lady, and the rich mage thief who owns the keep, and the thief from the starting dungeon (who I switched with a cleric from the bar to see if he was better, but they are equally fragile for the most part and I switched back so I can just change out members once I complete their content or however having recruitables works)). Most of them can be one shotted in any decent fight and even the trash fights at the keep. I raised the difficulty level to insane but selected the thing that makes it so I do not take more damage from higher difficulty settings, so I think it just spawns more enemies. I may put this back down to core if my plan doesn't work since the recruitables are really really fragile.

This is my plan - there is a thing called EE Keeper that lets me change the classes of people, races, kits, and their pictures, etc. I can't get it to load the portraits from the mega pack, but I can change peoples classes. I was thinking I would change everyone to what I would have if I made my own party, including stats, etc with a reasonable 94 roll. It is somewhat cheating as for things I can't use a HO for I won't have to reroll a million times fro an 18/00, but it is not like I couldn't or wouldn't do that until I did for a melee fighter type.

This way I get the content and I get the joy of having my own party just with far more shitty whiny personalities than they would have, and different pictures since my selections are limited in this thing. But here is my issue - I tried this and it doesn't seem to be working right. I changed the thief from the first dungeon to a HO monk (with correct alignment) and he doesn't seem to have monk stuff. I changed Minsc to a new ranger kit and he didn't get the stuff for it. I tried changing the cleric guy to a diffent cleric kit (strategist of the red knight or something) and changed just the kit and his alignment and picture and he was no longer able to wield his shield, which makes me think the game doesn't recognize him as him any more? Will this ruin the whole reason I am doing this and make their content invalid?

If I can get this to work I am making an all HO fighter (one being a fighter/thief and going range) party with one HO monk and one elven archer. I installed some kit mods and monks are more interesting now and I want to see how they do. And they get new monk items like vestments and handwraps. This way I will mainly click and watch and not have to worry about an arcane class getting one shotted in trash fights, or need to heal as much. Mages will do a lot of damage to me, especially multiple caster battles, but everyone will be able to take a hit and live through most stuff and I will not get annoyed by casting spells and ten minutes later when it is almost going off I get one shotetd by a rogue or the mage is invisible and I lose the target. I'll only have to worry about pots and targets.

 

[Roqua]

Roqua's own videos of him pausing the crap out of scenarios and constantly healing near dead party members seem to counter the whole point of this thread. What's he arguing about now? What's the new goalpost?

What was the point of this thread? I am interested in hearing what you think it was and is. I did not record the bazillion trash fights I had to wade through to get to a good fight. Granted, SCS with the options I have make the game a lot more difficult, but my goal is still a click and watch party and I see no reason for an arcane caster. Even less so with SCS since they are rogue bait and their main function seems to be dying. Lastly, almost all rtwP games will be mainly click and watch besides Aarklash legacy, which most of the retards on this site refuse to play for some reason because they don't want to try an actually good rtwp combat implementation. NWN2 OC on default is still the candle holder for hands-off monkey easy rtwp, with both kotors following up close behind. BG2 with SCS is more now not in the same retard ballpark as the combat in those examples, but lets not get crazy. It is far cry from the best TB crpg game's combat.

 

[AwesomeButton]

With a party made up of unmodified companion NPCs, you should get quite a challenge. But like you said, raising the difficulty doesn't make a game good.

 

[hell bovine]

I want to apologize for the mean and hurtful things I said about you. I have anger issues and tent to be overly hostile when confronted. And it is hard to determine the users of normal intelligence from the hordes of monkey retards that infest this site. Well, I sincerely apologize for what I said and take the unnecessary stuff back.

The SCS with all prebuffing mages and clerics, and all spell casters get HLAs (and I selected HLAs as intrinsic abilities instead of spells but I'm not sure what that does or if it mages things better or worse) definitely improve combat in this game significantly. I took me a bunch (around 5, maybe even 10) tries to win the upstairs inn fight at the promenade.

But, I am going to double down on my original assertion. I am doing far worse with arcane casters in my group. This may change when I get some equipment in later areas but I dropped the second guy I made and now have a party of Minsc, Druid lady, Circus winged elf lady, and the rich mage thief who owns the keep, and the thief from the starting dungeon (who I switched with a cleric from the bar to see if he was better, but they are equally fragile for the most part and I switched back so I can just change out members once I complete their content or however having recruitables works)). Most of them can be one shotted in any decent fight and even the trash fights at the keep. I raised the difficulty level to insane but selected the thing that makes it so I do not take more damage from higher difficulty settings, so I think it just spawns more enemies. I may put this back down to core if my plan doesn't work since the recruitables are really really fragile.

This is my plan - there is a thing called EE Keeper that lets me change the classes of people, races, kits, and their pictures, etc. I can't get it to load the portraits from the mega pack, but I can change peoples classes. I was thinking I would change everyone to what I would have if I made my own party, including stats, etc with a reasonable 94 roll. It is somewhat cheating as for things I can't use a HO for I won't have to reroll a million times fro an 18/00, but it is not like I couldn't or wouldn't do that until I did for a melee fighter type.

This way I get the content and I get the joy of having my own party just with far more shitty whiny personalities than they would have, and different pictures since my selections are limited in this thing. But here is my issue - I tried this and it doesn't seem to be working right. I changed the thief from the first dungeon to a HO monk (with correct alignment) and he doesn't seem to have monk stuff. I changed Minsc to a new ranger kit and he didn't get the stuff for it. I tried changing the cleric guy to a diffent cleric kit (strategist of the red knight or something) and changed just the kit and his alignment and picture and he was no longer able to wield his shield, which makes me think the game doesn't recognize him as him any more? Will this ruin the whole reason I am doing this and make their content invalid?

If I can get this to work I am making an all HO fighter (one being a fighter/thief and going range) party with one HO monk and one elven archer. I installed some kit mods and monks are more interesting now and I want to see how they do. And they get new monk items like vestments and handwraps. This way I will mainly click and watch and not have to worry about an arcane class getting one shotted in trash fights, or need to heal as much. Mages will do a lot of damage to me, especially multiple caster battles, but everyone will be able to take a hit and live through most stuff and I will not get annoyed by casting spells and ten minutes later when it is almost going off I get one shotetd by a rogue or the mage is invisible and I lose the target. I'll only have to worry about pots and targets.

Apology accepted (and this is the codex, so).

HLAS = high level abilities = abilities classes usually get when they are in Throne of Bhaal (if played with a full party). For example: thieves get the use any item HLA, which lets them use any item, regardless of restrictions (e.g. the paladin sword). Since some of the enemy mages (like liches)in SoA are high enough to get HLAs, SCS assigns them; this can make battles very difficult, depending on what they get.

A lot of people change NPC classes with EE keeper, because bioware got lazy on the design and there is a lot of class overlap, e.g. you get two mage/thief dual classes and one multiclass, but no fighter/thief. (NOTE: personal NPC items will not work, because bioware coded them in a crazy way, and beamdog probably didn't fix it. Basically they aren't coded as "useable only by character x", but as "useable only by a paladin with 12 dexterity and 17 constitution etc." So if you change one of those variables, the NPC won't be able to use their item.) I can't help with the rest, though, because I don't have BG2 EE.
edit: You don't actually need an arcane caster (even though certain battles will be harder because of it), but you will need a cleric for the remove curse spell. This is because the improved golems are bugged - their "cursed wound" ability should be removable by temples, but isn't. Only your party cleric can do it. (or don't install the golems)

For fighters & thieves I would recommend shorty races (dwarves and halflings) instead of half-orcs, because those "shorty saves" make a big difference with SCS mages:
http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/"Shorty"_Saving_Throws
For example: a halfling fighter/thief get a race bonus to his thieving skills, and a +5 saving throw bonus from 18 constitution. One very useful ability to pick up for a thief is "detect illusion", which dispels mage illusions like invisibility. You activate it the same as detect traps; the downside is that is a has a small radius, so the thief has to be somewhere near the mage (which is why even invisible SCS mages tend to run around on the battlefield).

One thing to keep in mind is that SCS was balanced for the core difficulty. Some of the monsters (notably dragons) have their melee ability upped to the point, where the only time I fought them on insane was with a wizard-heavy party, with every wizard running protection from magical weapons. Most players that I know play SCS on core with bioware npcs, and on insane with custom powergaming parties; you get roughly the same difficulty.

edit: f you want to change NPC portraits (unless beamdog changed things):
http://portraits.chosenofmystra.net/npc_portrait_change.html

 

[Roqua]

Apology accepted (and this is the codex, so).

HLAS = high level abilities = abilities classes usually get when they are in Throne of Bhaal (if played with a full party). For example: thieves get the use any item HLA, which lets them use any item, regardless of restrictions (e.g. the paladin sword). Since some of the enemy mages (like liches)in SoA are high enough to get HLAs, SCS assigns them; this can make battles very difficult, depending on what they get.

A lot of people change NPC classes with EE keeper, because bioware got lazy on the design and there is a lot of class overlap, e.g. you get two mage/thief dual classes and one multiclass, but no fighter/thief. (NOTE: personal NPC items will not work, because bioware coded them in a crazy way, and beamdog probably didn't fix it. Basically they aren't coded as "useable only by character x", but as "useable only by a paladin with 12 dexterity and 17 constitution etc." So if you change one of those variables, the NPC won't be able to use their item.) I can't help with the rest, though, because I don't have BG2 EE.
edit: You don't actually need an arcane caster (even though certain battles will be harder because of it), but you will need a cleric for the remove curse spell. This is because the improved golems are bugged - their "cursed wound" ability should be removable by temples, but isn't. Only your party cleric can do it. (or don't install the golems)

For fighters & thieves I would recommend shorty races (dwarves and halflings) instead of half-orcs, because those "shorty saves" make a big difference with SCS mages:
http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/"Shorty"_Saving_Throws
For example: a halfling fighter/thief get a race bonus to his thieving skills, and a +5 saving throw bonus from 18 constitution. One very useful ability to pick up for a thief is "detect illusion", which dispels mage illusions like invisibility. You activate it the same as detect traps; the downside is that is a has a small radius, so the thief has to be somewhere near the mage (which is why even invisible SCS mages tend to run around on the battlefield).

One thing to keep in mind is that SCS was balanced for the core difficulty. Some of the monsters (notably dragons) have their melee ability upped to the point, where the only time I fought them on insane was with a wizard-heavy party, with every wizard running protection from magical weapons. Most players that I know play SCS on core with bioware npcs, and on insane with custom powergaming parties; you get roughly the same difficulty.

edit: f you want to change NPC portraits (unless beamdog changed things):
http://portraits.chosenofmystra.net/npc_portrait_change.html

I can't take build advice so I didn't read most of this. The fun of crpgs to me is figuring things out on my own, going back to the drawing board, refining what I do until my party and ideas are realized and then combat gets boring so the game gets boring then I stop and move on. Trying new stuff out, and figuring it out on my own with no outside help or influence is what keeps me playing. And right now with all the new kits and possibilities I will have a bunch of restarts I can tell.

I can't get the ee keeper to switch companion classes correctly. I found something about how to reset a class by putting all classes to zero, HP to 1, THACO to 20, exp to 0, remove everything from all tabs, etc. But the game crashes whenever I try to level a companion. And the only way to add stuff I can figure out is with kits, and not change someone to a fighter and then remove all their current stuff and set it to be the fighter stuff. With the might & guile mod fighters and rogues get feats so I can't figure out how to make that work. And trying to make someone a monk crashes the game when I just click on their picture.

So, figuring this out seems to be too much of a pain. My new idea is to have a core 4. Three people I make, plus the druid lady since she seems to have some spunk and I'll just change her to how I would want a fighter/druid I make to be. Plus there is a picture I have access to through the ee keeper of an elf lady with an eye patch and some scars that will make her tolerable to look at, instead of this shitty super model default picture of a women that would shit her pants and cry if confronted with violence. That means I can cycle the other weakling companions through without relying on them for anything and will just pretend they aren't there and set their scripts to passive and just always keep them away from any fighting. And maybe I'll find some that aren't detestable down the road that will be worth investing in after I do the content of the others. And after I save Imlyala or whatever her name is I'll add her as permanent since she is either my sister or like my sister so my character's job is to look after her, even if she does have a picture of a frail weakling. You can't pick your family.

 

[hell bovine]

Well, two of my favourite NPCs (nice personalities and have some fun banter together) are found outside of the city.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

almost all rtwP games will be mainly click and watch besides Aarklash legacy, which most of the retards on this site refuse to play for some reason because they don't want to try an actually good rtwp combat implementation. NWN2 OC on default is still the candle holder for hands-off monkey easy rtwp, with both kotors following up close behind. BG2 with SCS is more now not in the same retard ballpark as the combat in those examples, but lets not get crazy. It is far cry from the best TB crpg game's combat.

The term you keep using, click and watch, is too ambiguous to have meaning. All PC games which use a mouse as their primary input will be click and watch. You set a character to perform an action then you watch the outcome. The fighters in IE games don't have additional skills, such as knockdown, taunt, shield charge or whatever, their only skill is hacking with their swords. Everyone knows this, it's something that is used as a negative by some people and it's an understandable complaint if that kind of thing is important to you. Yes, if you go with all fighters then you wont get any additional clicks to make during battles. QED.

Whether anyone would want to play that way is another topic, just as is whether you do or do not need to play that way. The game is not describable as "just click and watch" because Roqua thinks he's found a way to do that or because that's all Roqua feels he needs to do. The words you're looking for to criticise the IE games are already known and understood and those words are "The IE games lack battle options for the fighter classes" or "The fighter classes are too boring for me", by pointing your wording at the entire game is where you're being retarded.

I don't think you are a retarded gamer, I hope you understand that, I'm trying to communicate to you that I don't think you entirely get the point of RPGs and how they are different to purely combat games. I mean, with regards to the NWN2 OC and KotOR I completely agree, of all the RPGs I've played the combat in those games was verging on the absurdly easy/retarded to the point where I completely lost interest in their combat systems. I couldn't even complete KotOR due to abject boredom. But comparing those games to the IE games is utterly absurd and just shows you up to be more of an attention seeker than someone trying to make a point, because of the sheer extremity of the absurdity.

To which we come to Aarklash Legacy. This game isn't even classified as an RPG. It's a purely combat game. It's closest comparison in RPG terms would be something like Dungeon Siege. In games like this the development team can spend virtually all of their time perfecting the combat systems. This is the reason why many at the codex are not paying attention to that game, not because of whatever madness your mind has decided the reason is. While combat is a very important part of RPGs, it's not the be-all and end-all. If your only criticism of a game is its combat system then you're not RPGing properly. Case in point, I found both NWN2 OC and KotOR combat utterly pointless, but I was able to finish NWN2 OC but not KotOR. Why? Because I enjoy traditional fantasy RPG more than I enjoy Sci-Fi RPG. Because NWN had more green colours and more enjoyable music than the dull greys and whatever noise of KotOR.

Now, please don't come at me with all that predictable "music and colours who gives a shit" bollox because you know full well that I am not prioritising those elements over something more important, like combat, but what I am saying is that the whole point about RPGs is that they are a soup of games, a collection of concepts that, when they combine, form a whole that gets referred to as RPG. If everyone here just wanted to play combat games then there's other genres for that, such as Real-time strategy, Turn-based tactics, shoot'em ups, shooters, and a whole heap of other things that wont require dialogue trees, optional quests, non-combat skills, puzzles, exploration, investigation and the whole raft of other things people like in RPGs.

It's great that you've found a game which utilises RTwP better than you think any other RTwP has implemented it, wonderful, but Temple of Elemental Evil has already given us the primary example of how the IE games could have had better combat, and the answer wasn't even RTwP. I've no doubt there are lots of ways the IE games could have been 'better' in all sorts of ways, but what's that got to do with the whole? A huge amount of people, people for who their primary interest is the RPG concept, not just combat, find the IE games to be excellent examples of the genre. Maybe not the best examples, I think nearly everyone agrees that they, personally, can think of games they preferred, but they are perfectly adequate to good examples of a good cRPG. To which mouthing off in the way you do is not only entirely incorrect/miscommunication but also completely missing the point.

If your primary butthurt in this discussion is that something like Aarklash Legacy doesn't get enough praise and that the IE games get too much praise then this shows more that you do not understand question, let alone have any ability or qualification to preach to the choir. That you insist on playing BG games instead of IWD* games when your primary issue is combat is even beyond the beyond of nutjobbery.

IE games: Fighters lack additional options
Aarklash Legacy: The entire game lacks RPG

*And in the IWD games there are monsters which naturally go completely against melee combat, in that you die if you do that, and yet you then scream "those retarded exploding things", which, again, just shows you to be a try-hard, please, do, stop. You are fucking BORING.

 

[aweigh]

poe still the best implementation of rtwp ever on pc bcause they tried to emulate a turn-based system instead of emulating rts

 

[Suicidal]

poe still the best implementation of rtwp ever on pc bcause they tried to emulate a turn-based system instead of emulating rts

Prepare for a tidal wave of butthurt over this statement, matey.

 

[Lhynn]

poe still the best implementation of rtwp ever on pc bcause they tried to emulate a turn-based system instead of emulating rts

No.

 

[Roqua]

poe still the best implementation of rtwp ever on pc bcause they tried to emulate a turn-based system instead of emulating rts

It is really starting to bother me that I keep telling people there is an actual good implementation of RTwP and people like you keep on ignoring Aarklash legacy like it doesn't exist. Aarklash legacy is actual good RTwP. PoE is okay on ironman, SitSL is okay as well. Aarklash is tier 1, PoE and SitSL are tier 5, the Drakensangs are tier 7, and unmoded with SCS IE games, Kotor, NWN 1 & 2, etc, are tier 8.

If someone hasn't played Aarklash Legacy there should be a rule on this site were they cannot ever talk about any rtwp system until they do or be banned.

almost all rtwP games will be mainly click and watch besides Aarklash legacy, which most of the retards on this site refuse to play for some reason because they don't want to try an actually good rtwp combat implementation. NWN2 OC on default is still the candle holder for hands-off monkey easy rtwp, with both kotors following up close behind. BG2 with SCS is more now not in the same retard ballpark as the combat in those examples, but lets not get crazy. It is far cry from the best TB crpg game's combat.

The term you keep using, click and watch, is too ambiguous to have meaning. All PC games which use a mouse as their primary input will be click and watch. You set a character to perform an action then you watch the outcome. The fighters in IE games don't have additional skills, such as knockdown, taunt, shield charge or whatever, their only skill is hacking with their swords. Everyone knows this, it's something that is used as a negative by some people and it's an understandable complaint if that kind of thing is important to you. Yes, if you go with all fighters then you wont get any additional clicks to make during battles. QED.

Whether anyone would want to play that way is another topic, just as is whether you do or do not need to play that way. The game is not describable as "just click and watch" because Roqua thinks he's found a way to do that or because that's all Roqua feels he needs to do. The words you're looking for to criticise the IE games are already known and understood and those words are "The IE games lack battle options for the fighter classes" or "The fighter classes are too boring for me", by pointing your wording at the entire game is where you're being retarded.

I don't think you are a retarded gamer, I hope you understand that, I'm trying to communicate to you that I don't think you entirely get the point of RPGs and how they are different to purely combat games. I mean, with regards to the NWN2 OC and KotOR I completely agree, of all the RPGs I've played the combat in those games was verging on the absurdly easy/retarded to the point where I completely lost interest in their combat systems. I couldn't even complete KotOR due to abject boredom. But comparing those games to the IE games is utterly absurd and just shows you up to be more of an attention seeker than someone trying to make a point, because of the sheer extremity of the absurdity.

To which we come to Aarklash Legacy. This game isn't even classified as an RPG. It's a purely combat game. It's closest comparison in RPG terms would be something like Dungeon Siege. In games like this the development team can spend virtually all of their time perfecting the combat systems. This is the reason why many at the codex are not paying attention to that game, not because of whatever madness your mind has decided the reason is. While combat is a very important part of RPGs, it's not the be-all and end-all. If your only criticism of a game is its combat system then you're not RPGing properly. Case in point, I found both NWN2 OC and KotOR combat utterly pointless, but I was able to finish NWN2 OC but not KotOR. Why? Because I enjoy traditional fantasy RPG more than I enjoy Sci-Fi RPG. Because NWN had more green colours and more enjoyable music than the dull greys and whatever noise of KotOR.

Now, please don't come at me with all that predictable "music and colours who gives a shit" bollox because you know full well that I am not prioritising those elements over something more important, like combat, but what I am saying is that the whole point about RPGs is that they are a soup of games, a collection of concepts that, when they combine, form a whole that gets referred to as RPG. If everyone here just wanted to play combat games then there's other genres for that, such as Real-time strategy, Turn-based tactics, shoot'em ups, shooters, and a whole heap of other things that wont require dialogue trees, optional quests, non-combat skills, puzzles, exploration, investigation and the whole raft of other things people like in RPGs.

It's great that you've found a game which utilises RTwP better than you think any other RTwP has implemented it, wonderful, but Temple of Elemental Evil has already given us the primary example of how the IE games could have had better combat, and the answer wasn't even RTwP. I've no doubt there are lots of ways the IE games could have been 'better' in all sorts of ways, but what's that got to do with the whole? A huge amount of people, people for who their primary interest is the RPG concept, not just combat, find the IE games to be excellent examples of the genre. Maybe not the best examples, I think nearly everyone agrees that they, personally, can think of games they preferred, but they are perfectly adequate to good examples of a good cRPG. To which mouthing off in the way you do is not only entirely incorrect/miscommunication but also completely missing the point.

If your primary butthurt in this discussion is that something like Aarklash Legacy doesn't get enough praise and that the IE games get too much praise then this shows more that you do not understand question, let alone have any ability or qualification to preach to the choir. That you insist on playing BG games instead of IWD* games when your primary issue is combat is even beyond the beyond of nutjobbery.

IE games: Fighters lack additional options
Aarklash Legacy: The entire game lacks RPG

*And in the IWD games there are monsters which naturally go completely against melee combat, in that you die if you do that, and yet you then scream "those retarded exploding things", which, again, just shows you to be a try-hard, please, do, stop. You are fucking BORING.

I will break this up into bullets so even you will be able to understand, and hopefully learn and possibly reply sensibly.

-Click and watch applies to RTwP games that it are nearly or virtually impossible to lose in 95% of the fights for people of normal intelligence. You click once and watch or think of boobs until the combat sounds stop. Once in a great while there will be a fight that you have to pay attention and pause and drink some pots or whatever. There is no question unmoded BG and BG2 fit this criteria, as does IWD and PST. You can say wasting time doing something helps, but it doesn't. Maybe running around in circles during combat is what I love to do and is fun for me, but because I run in circles until I am almost dead doesn't mean the game is now challenging because I am playing it right.

-The fact that a few classes can cast spells and those spells might be worth casting in some fights means nothing. Saying this is down to play style is incorrect. The two questions to ask is can the game be won by never doing anything in the vast majority of the fights besides clicking and watching? And is the majority of battles able to be steamrolled by an extremely non-diverse party of melee heavy hitters? With the IE games (without SCS) the answer is yes and yes. This leads to more questions such as why are there classes if HO fighters are clearly superior to all others? And can this type of system ever be good? People can talk all day about haste and a mage/fighter with haste, but haste gives you one extra attck per round. A grandmaster fighter will have 2 more attacks per round and can get haste from pots. I know this and I am far from an expert on the IE games systems, just from reading the tooltips.

-Aarklash Legacy has a very similar type of gameplay system as Dungeon Siege and a million other rpgs. It seems like your argument is the difference between an rpg like AArklash and most other rpgs is Aarklash has good combat. How different is Aarklash than Jade Empire even in gameplay (while of course having far superior combat than Jade Empire). Even story heavy and traditional rpgs can have good combat - it used to be the standard even, before the U7 and the IE games. And you cannot name one rpg where the majority of time is not spent in combat. The crux of all rpg mechanics is combat. The game revolves around combat and combat related systems. Pickpocketing gives you items or gold to buy items to do better in combat. Same with lock picking, most dialogue choices, etc. Now, when it comes to traditional content Aarklash is rpg-lite, but not with character building. And if you are supporting games like the IE games you cannot criticize collecting party members as you go and needing certain ones for certain content.

-Any game can have decent combat, and certain games had decent combat that gets gutted because their target audience wants mindless easy combat. The majority market for the IE games and games like Dungeon Siege and Sword Coast Legends are people who want the following - to easily beat content and feel powerful all the time. 2) To have pregenerated party members with developer created personalities and to not need certain classes to mindlessly mow down hordes of enemies. 3) A non-complex combat system and chardev system that is mindless and does not allow gimping.

-Do you not consider JA 2, the new rtwp JAs, or Blackguards 1 or 2 rpgs? And Blackguards 1 proves my point. People hated it because you could make gimp characters that were not effective. Combat and chardev required thinking and planning and foresight.

-Good games will have good systems. Any system that you spend the majority of your time doing has to be good for it to be a good game. For me, Mass Effect games are great stories in shit games. I love them despite the rpg liteness, shit systems, and all around consoleness. I love FO 1 and 2 and Arcanum and Bloodlines and Darklands and Dark Suns despite not enjoying the combat in any of them. Once in a while there will be a game with great content, great systems, and great combat such as ToEE and WL2, or the Buck Rogers games, or Realms of Arkania trilogy, etc.

-Your initial assertion is false and all of your following assertions are false besides when you say what I think of a game doesn't matter. You are correct. My opinion does not matter. What matters is reason, logic, available unbiased facts, and consistence. I love some games with shitty combat. I am much more tolerant of games with shitty combat when they are twitch games, like Bloodlines or the new Elder Scrolls game Enderal.

-The games I find boring and shit are games that are developed specifically for lowbrow monkey people so they do not have to think, or worry, or pay attention. Mass Effect squarely falls in this category, but is an exception for me. These types of games usually havea party you collect as you go, and the party members have personalities given to them by the devs, the combat is rpg-lite, equipment is far more important than character development mechanics (which, of course, will be lite), and there will be no way to have a gimp party or character. These games are less games than interactive movies. And I like my movies to not be interactive. And I think books are the best storytelling medium and games the worst. And again, I love the Mass Effect games so am fully aware of my hypocrisy in that case.

-You probably like easy combat for monkeys because you do not see the game as a big system. Senge would be ashamed of you. If the core system sucks (which is always combat in an rpg) then the game must suck. That is logic. So now we come down to if the combat sucks so bad in the IE games why are they so popular? Why is Dues Ex considered an rpg? Why are all Bioware games super mega hits? Why was FO not a megahit until Bethesda bought it? Why is the top 10 music bulletin always full of awful? Why are most of the mega blockbuster films not critically acclaimed? Because the majority of people are stupid. This is fact. I'm told on here just how retarded I am all the time and my IQ is significantly higher than average. Average intelligence is very stupid. Mensa is full of idiots. There are maybe a million people in the world who aren't retarded and most of them are socially retarded and work as some sort of engineer or in a hard science.

-The real answer is the same as why no super intelligent movie will never be an international blockbuster. The films raking in the billions have to be easy to digest for the masses. Stupid people get bored in intelligent movies and intelligent games. Stupid people love easy to follow movies with explosions and games with monkey combat for idiots. I love the former and almost always dislike the later. I am a movie peon. I loved the new Xmen movie and that was about as smart as a bandaid. I get bored easily when reading certain writers such as Dostoevsky but love lowbrow fantasy from the likes of David Gemmel. If you guys were only as retarded as I am you could be able to critically reflect on yourself and your shortcomings. You'll never see me argue something popular due to tyranny of the masses is great, but I will often argue why something just like something super popular isn't.

-Either way, you are dumb and I am far less dumb and hope learned something.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

I will break this up into bullets so even you will be able to understand, and hopefully learn and possibly reply sensibly.

As will I:

Fuck off you demented prick.

 

[Roqua]

As will I:

Fuck off you demented prick.

That isn't bullets. You are wrong yet again. Ha ha, you fucking idiot.