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In Progress Repulsive Stupid Idiot Plays Romance of the Three Kingdoms 11

I am a fat idiot

  • Great!

    Votes: 5 17.2%
  • Me too.

    Votes: 10 34.5%
  • Wow!

    Votes: 7 24.1%
  • Hurray.

    Votes: 7 24.1%

  • Total voters
    29
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
26
Let's play. . .

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Romance of the Three Kingdoms 11 is a turn-based strategy game that takes place in China during the collapse of the Han Dynasty and the subsequent era of civil war from 180-260 AD. The game is based on a 17th century fictionalized novel of the era by a guy named Luo Guanzhong and the book is considered one of the four most important pieces of Chinese literature. The game takes place on a large hexagonal map filled with cities. Warlords control each of the cities, which serve as the main means of gaining resources needed to field soldiers. Each warlord has subordinate officers (most of whom existed in actual history!) with stats that affect the output of your cities and their results in battle. The goal of the game is to conquer all of the cities and eliminate all enemies.

Battles are the most important and fun part of Romance of the Three Kingdoms 11. All of the city micromanagement is just a prelude to the battles, which take place on the same map that the rest of the game does, unlike in the rest of the series. Because battles and domestic gameplay take place on the same map, you have a much wider array of tactical options, some of which I hope to display! Here's a picture of what an average battle might look like.

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Two allied warlords, Yuan Shao and Gongsun Zan, decided to attack another warlord, Liu Yu, at the same time. Liu Yu's fucked!

This is also my first Let's Play. I've never done one before so tell me if I'm doing something wrong.

The game comes with a number of scenarios that span the course of the period. I've chosen the second scenario, "Dong Zhuo's Tyranny", because it has the largest number of warlords and the most even distribution of power. There are clear winners and losers, but overall the playing field is much more even. Let's take a look at the current map of China.

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In 189 AD, the Han Dynasty was recovering from a massive revolt called the Yellow Turban Rebellion, which was the largest rebellion in history. The war left China fragmented and diminished the authority of the emperor. Sensing the emperor's weakness, Dong Zhuo, a rugged general from the west, marched on the capital, replaced the emperor with one of his choosing and appointed himself prime minister. This massive violation of the law upset many of the regional rulers, who assembled a coalition, convened by Cao Cao and led by Yuan Shao, to depose Dong Zhuo and hopefully restore order to China.

China is currently divided among a number of petty warlords. I haven't chosen who I want to play as yet, so I'm going to let you all decide. I'd like to play as someone obscure and difficult because I'm very good at this game and I want a challenge, but we'll see! Let's take a look at some of these crazy customers!

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Cao Cao is one of the most important and well-known figures of the Three Kingdoms period. A pragmatic schemer, his territory was the foundation for the Cao Wei kingdom, one of the titular Three Kingdoms, and his son Cao Pi was its first emperor.

He is probably the best dude in the game and he starts with a tremendous amount of very good characters. Despite his proximity to Dong Zhuo, I'd say playing as Cao Cao is the easiest choice for this (and almost all!) scenarios.

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Liu Bei is the founder of the Shu Han kingdom, another of the Three Kingdoms, and is the chief protagonist of Luo Guanzhong's novel. Beginning as a humble shoe vendor, Liu Bei and his sworn brothers Zhang Fei and Guan Yu climb their way to the top by exploiting connections, stabbing allies in the back and pretending to be good people.

Liu Bei starts out with very few officers and is surrounded by people who are mostly stronger than him. However, his officers are extremely good, some of the best in the game, and it's not too hard to catch up and become a regional power.

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Sun Jian was a skilled general, governor of Chang Sha for a short period of time and the father of the founder of the last of the Three Kingdoms, Sun Quan. He and his troops capture Luo Yang, the seat of Dong Zhuo's power, and force him to flee west to Chang An. Historically, he was a vassal to Yuan Shu, but because of his tremendous importance I guess they decided to make him independent.

Sun Jian starts out far away from everyone else and with a lot of very good officers. A game as him would be really boring because nobody is near him and he almost always becomes the last big threat you face.

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Dong Zhuo is a general from the western regions of China who captured the emperor and assumed authority of the Han Dynasty. A group of lords form a coalition to capture him and restore authority to the emperor, but in the end they fail. He ultimately meets his end when his adopted son, Lu Bu, assassinates him.

Dong Zhuo starts off with the most land, the most soldiers and a lot of very good officers. Almost everybody in the game is out to get him, though. If you want me to play as him, the beginning might be tricky but once I get everything together it will be real easy.

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Yuan Shao is a nobleman and the leader of the coalition against Dong Zhuo. After the coalition disintegrates, Yuan Shao consolidates power in the north by conquering his neighbors Han Fu and Gongsun Zan. He ultimately loses a major battle, Guandu, to Cao Cao and dies in shame. His sons split up his lands and are gradually defeated by Cao Cao.

Yuan Shao is another very easy warlord to play as. He starts out with a lot of very competent officers in an area where there aren't many people who can resist him.

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Gongsun Zan was a pretty huge turd in actual history. He was an extremely competent but cruel general who was brought to Bei Ping to quell the revolts of a nomadic Turkic warlord named Qiu Li Ju. After he accomplished his goal, his attentions turned to expansion. He started with Liu Yu, his immediate superior, and then Han Fu and Yuan Shao. He met his match with Yuan Shao and his lands were conquered and absorbed.

Gongsun Zan is moderately difficult to play. Most of his officers are mediocre, but he's pretty good and it's pretty easy for him to expand. He also starts with level 3 horse tech, which is one of the best in the game.

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Gongsun Du was a general who was assigned by Dong Zhuo to conquer Korea. He managed to capture a large portion of Korea and gained a strong foothold for his family there. His grandson, Gongsun Yuan, ultimately decided to declare himself king of Yan, infuriating the emperor of Wei and ending the Gongsun family's reign over the Liaodong peninsula and Korea.

Gongsun Du is one of the hardest guys in the game to play as, but he's also one of the most fun. He is not a member of the alliance against Dong Zhuo, so everyone will attack him right off the bat. He also has very few officers and they're all pretty lame. This might be pretty fun. No idea why his stats are so low, because he straight up conquered Korea.

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Yuan Shu was Yuan Shao's half brother and a major power player in the 190s. He was also a very power-hungry guy and, in his hubris, declared himself Emperor of Chen. This immediately turned everyone against him and he was killed by Lu Bu, Dong Zhuo's adopted son.

Yuan Shu might be pretty fun to play as. He starts out right next to Dong Zhuo and usually gets conquered fairly soon. Although he starts out with a lot of guys, most of them aren't too great. This could be interesting!

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Dong Zhuo realized he wasn't a popular guy when he declared himself prime minister. In order to curry favor with scholars, most of whom rejected him, he decided to appoint a number of scholars to positions of power. Han Fu was one of these scholars and Dong Zhuo's plan immediately backfired. Han Fu joined the coalition against Dong Zhuo and fought against him. After the coalition fell apart, his territory was conquered by Yuan Shao and Gongsun Zan. He fled for his life and eventually committed suicide.

Han Fu himself is pretty awful, but he has a handful of pretty good officers. He also starts in a great city. He might be pretty fun to play as.

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Kong Rong was another of the lords to join the coalition against Dong Zhuo. He was a scholar, not a warrior, and eventually submitted to Cao Cao, who executed him for badmouthing him. This was probably just an excuse; the two never got along.

Kong Rong starts out with only a few officers, although one of them is very good. He's in an area far from Dong Zhuo and is a member of the coalition, so he can expand at his leisure. He might be interesting to play as.

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Like Han Fu, Kong Zhou was one of the scholars appointed by Dong Zhuo. He also joined the coalition. There's not too much to say - there aren't many records about him and he was eventually lost in the turmoil of the era.

Kong Zhou starts with only one other officer and neither he nor his other officer are great. He doesn't start near anyone else, but his lack of personnel might make him one of the hardest people to play as. This could be really, really fun.

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Liu Biao was a scholar and politician who governed the Jing province. His subordinates Huang Zu and Kuai Liang killed Sun Jian when Sun Jian was assaulting one of Liu's cities. Liu Biao was said to be indecisive because he didn't take advantage of a number of opportunities, but I don't know if that's necessarily true. For a period of almost 10 years, he had to deal with a major revolt led by a guy named Zhang Xian, who, for some reason isn't in the game. When Liu Biao died of old age, his son surrendered his lands to Cao Cao.

Liu Biao starts with two cities and a lot of personnel. Most of them, however, aren't that great and he's not a member of the coalition, making him an easy target. It would still probably be an easy game though.

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Liu Dai is the governor of Yan and is a member of the coalition against Dong Zhuo. He refused to send Sun Jian supplies after he captured Luo Yang from Dong Zhuo. He killed a lot of his neighbors and was eventually killed by a remnant of the Yellow Turbans.

Liu Dai is a member of the coalition but he starts pretty close to Dong Zhuo, making him susceptible to attack. He also has few officers, all of whom are fairly mediocre (and were actually independent lords, but I guess they decided to make them his subordinates?). He's probably pretty difficult to play as, but he could be fun too.

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Liu Yan was the governor of the Yi province during the Yellow Turban Rebellion but transferred positions to remote Cheng Du in southwestern China when he sensed the oncoming turmoil. He died in 194 and was succeeded by his son Liu Zhang. Liu Zhang gets kind of a bad rap because he surrendered his territory to Liu Bei, but he was a kind and generous man who thought first of his people. I guess those aren't empire-building traits though.

Liu Yan starts with the most territory after Dong Zhuo, but he's not a member of the coalition and starts with relatively few officers and soldiers. The first few years are pretty tough for him because it's all about building up resources. It takes a few years to catch up, but once he does he becomes pretty fun. Fairly challenging despite his initial size.

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Liu Yu was a really smart, humble and generous lord of the You province in northern China. He assigned Gongsun Zan to crush the nomadic warlord Qiu Li Ju's rebellion, but he ultimately convinced Qiu Li Ju not only to surrender, but to work for him. He was a relative of the emperor and refused multiple offers from Yuan Shao to become the new emperor if the coalition was successful. This was ultimately his undoing, and Gongsun Zan killed him for conspiring to become the emperor, even though he refused the position many times.

Liu Yu is probably the hardest warlord to play as. He's not in the coalition and he's surrounded by people who are, making him their number one target. His officers are all mediocre and he usually dies within the first few months. Very difficult but it can be very fun.

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Ma Teng is a pretty neat guy. In 184, the Yuezhi, a group of Indo-Europeans living in western China, took advantage of the Yellow Turban Rebellion and decided to revolt. Ma Teng was one of many Han forces under Dong Zhuo sent in to quell the revolt. He decided, however, to join the revolt and together with Han Sui, Bei Gong Boyou, Song Jian and many others overthrew the Han in Liang and conquered it for themselves. He was also the father of Ma Chao, one of Shu Han's great generals.

Ma Teng starts with a lot of really good military officers, but has very little domestic ability and is hindered greatly by this in the beginning. He's also boxed in completely by Dong Zhuo. His membership in the coalition doesn't matter much because none of the other coalition members are even near him. The beginning can be very precarious, but also pretty fun.

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According to Luo Guanzhong's novel, Tao Qian was a kindly old man who graciously bestowed Liu Bei his governorship after his death. In reality, he was a cruel and self-serving dick who exploited the peasant population and tried to manipulate his way to the top. He died in 194.

Tao Qian starts with two cities and is a member of the coalition. The area to his south is unclaimed, making it easy for him to expand, and he starts with a lot of guys. A game as Tao Qian would probably be pretty easy and uninteresting.

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Zhang Lu is another really interesting guy. Zhang Lu's mother kept bothering the prefect of Cheng Du, Liu Yan, so Liu Yan appointed Zhang Lu as the prefect of Hanzhong to get her out of his hair. He ruled autonomously for nearly 20 years and was fairly humane as far as ancient warlords go. He built roads and rest stops for peasants and promoted Taoism among the general population. Luo Guanzhong's novel makes him out to be power-hungry, coveting gold and titles, but actually he refused gold and the offer of kingship. Luo Guanzhong made a lot of stuff up I guess.

Zhang Lu starts out with very few officers and isn't a member of the coalition. He's sandwiched between Liu Yan and Dong Zhuo, two much more powerful enemies. He might be tricky but fun to play as.

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Dong Zhuo managed to entice Lu Bu, a great warrior and vassal of Ding Yuan, governor of Bing, to defect and join him. Lu Bu not only defected, but killed Ding Yuan. Zhang Yang took over the governorship of Bing and joined the coalition against Dong Zhuo. He was eventually murdered by one of his own subordinates, Yang Chou.

Zhang Yang is a member of the coalition but only has a few officers and they're almost exclusively terrible. He starts out next to Liu Yu, who isn't a member of the coalition and is an easy target. He could be a lot of fun to play as.

SO!

Those are our options. It's up to you to decide who I play as. I'm a very experienced player and I'd like a challenge. If you guys would like, I could talk a little bit more in-depth about our choices and what makes each one good and bad. I also know a lot about the period and if you guys have any questions, definitely ask. My plan is to talk quite a bit about the actual history during the course of this LP. I can't wait to get started on my first LP - hope this goes well.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Excellent, it's about time we got a ROTK LP.

I'd say either Ma Teng or one of history's losers bunched up in the North, i.e. Gongsun Du or even Han Fu for the lulz. Depends on how much you want to larp/history, since with the latter two there isn't a great deal of history to tell. That said, we could always do with a warmongering conqueror with a war score of 3.
 

Duckard

Augur
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
354
Liu Yu or Ma Teng.

Or just pick whoever you want, I don't mind.
 

Majestic47

Learned
Joined
Nov 9, 2011
Messages
432
I did LP this once end up not finishing it due to overwhelmingly tedious end game.
I recommend Ma Teng as the exciting starting position will pit you against the big guns early on. But Ma Chao should turn the tide.
 

anus_pounder

Arcane
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
5,972
Location
Yiffing in Hell
I vote Gongsun Du. Show the Cao that they aren't the only ones with the potential to unite China.

EDIT : Alternately, Choose Liu Bei. Intentionally get him killed as early as possible and let Zhang Fei be the successor. :yeah:
 

grotsnik

Arcane
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
1,671
Heh, I foolishly asked for the novel for Xmas and am even now gazing in anticipatory horror at all 1400 pages of it, so I'm taking this as a sign that your LP will be abandoned halfway through a long and noble endeavour.

Liu Yu this shit up, please.
 

Majestic47

Learned
Joined
Nov 9, 2011
Messages
432
Liu Yu has slightly higher nobility rank, but troop count means nothing if the general leading it incapable. Seriously, 32 WAR is horrid, horrid, horrid.
 

Kz3r0

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
27,017
Liu Bei looks like the most equilibrated choice, go for him.
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2011
Messages
259
Location
Pretty witch swamp, fairyland.
He ultimately loses a major battle, Guandu, to Cao Cao and dies in shame.

It wasn't just a major battle but an incredibly epic one, too. One of those scenes that make you wish Cao Cao was the main character instead of Liu Bei, given most of the bad rep Cao Cao gets is slander anyways.

Yuan Shu was Yuan Shao's half brother and a major power player in the 190s. He was also a very power-hungry guy and, in his hubris, declared himself Emperor of Chen. This immediately turned everyone against him and he was killed by Lu Bu, Dong Zhuo's adopted son.

Yuan Shu might be pretty fun to play as. He starts out right next to Dong Zhuo and usually gets conquered fairly soon. Although he starts out with a lot of guys, most of them aren't too great. This could be interesting!

So he is a despicable, unpopular guy everyone wants to kill from the very beginning and who believes himself to be cool and important? Mister Codex, I choose you!
 

anus_pounder

Arcane
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
5,972
Location
Yiffing in Hell
Wu didn't win at the end, so all is well with Chinese History. Too bad the Jin Dynasty didn't last. CC, LB and SQ were also probably the most interesting bits of the novel. After that, I kinda lost interest once they died.
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
Patron
Joined
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Messages
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Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
Actually yeah, the only interesting part of the game if you play the role of the loser in history and turn the table. Disqualify all the superpowers. But Liu Yu had too much of a handicap. Go for Yuan Shu instead of Ma Teng for some flexibility.

My favorite scenario and self done LP was when I took control of Meng Huo and swallowed all three kingdom whole. That was so, so sweet and I even finished it.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
26
Heh, I foolishly asked for the novel for Xmas and am even now gazing in anticipatory horror at all 1400 pages of it, so I'm taking this as a sign that your LP will be abandoned halfway through a long and noble endeavour.

Liu Yu this shit up, please.
Yeah, I had a teacher in high school who recommended the books to me and I thought they were neat, but it's the real history that interests me the most. Read the novel to get the big picture of what happened and then start reading the actual histories; the novel is the story of Liu Bei but the actual histories tell the story of China. A lot of totally crazy stuff went on in this period and the novel doesn't even begin to cover half of it.

It wasn't just a major battle but an incredibly epic one, too. One of those scenes that make you wish Cao Cao was the main character instead of Liu Bei, given most of the bad rep Cao Cao gets is slander anyways.
Nah, they were all bad people. All of these guys lied and manipulated the people around them. Cao Cao has a reputation for it because he was viewed as Liu Bei's chief rival by Luo Guanzhong and because his son ended the Han Dynasty, but every single one of them was a self-serving turd.

So it seems to be between Ma Teng, Liu Yu and Yuan Shu. All of these are really good choices and I'd gladly do any of them. I can see the Ma Teng game as being a total landslide because he starts with a million super good military generals, but I also know enough about him to make it interesting and the region he starts in is one of my favorites. I'll wait and see if a couple more people vote.
 

XenomorphII

Prophet
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
Messages
1,198
Go with Yuan Shu. Ma Teng is great fun and all, but the game turns into a landslide if you recruit a reasonably intelligent officer thanks to the leaders he has and his position in a corner of the map.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
EDIT : Alternately, Choose Liu Bei. Intentionally get him killed as early as possible and let Zhang Fei be the successor. :yeah:

Actually, this is clearly the most Codexian choice. Drunk ass bearded motherfucker who used to butcher pigs? When couple of his men went to his tent to betray him they were freaked out because he sleeps with his eyes open staring at you.

Otherwise, I'll change my Ma Teng vote to Yuan Shu, now that I think about it ROTK11 is way too easy when you have a defensible front and good generals (I remember using a single 2-tile wide valley to beat off an army 15x as large), and the Northwest region favours Ma Teng's cavalry immensely. Luo Guanzhong (author) pretty much hated Yuan Shu's guts and told us he's a greedy insane megalomaniac, so that should work well.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
26
Chapter 1: I Got 99 Problems and Dong Zhuo is Pretty Much All of Them

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In 190 AD, China was divided among regional warlords. Although their authority was invested in them by the emperor, they acted autonomously and largely in their own interests. Many of these warlords, like Cao Cao, Liu Bei and Sun Jian struggled their way to power from poverty. They represented a new class of men that subverted the traditional social hierarchy; they were self-made men. Others, like Liu Yu, Yuan Shao and Yuan Shu were among the nobility of the Han Dynasty. They represented the old ways, the landed gentry, the everlasting glory of the Han and its way of life. Their families had served the Han for generations and they felt that they were entitled to the empire's bounties.

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I am Yuan Shu, heir to the prestigious Yuan family, and it's time someone put these newcomers in their place.

Right now, we are in an alliance with 12 other lords against Dong Zhuo, the man who replaced the emperor, captured the Han court and usurped the position of prime minister. Although our collective forces could probably defeat Dong Zhuo, petty infighting threatens to dissolve our coalition before it can even take action. This is fine with me. I plan on being the pettiest of them all. For us, the alliance is an excuse for conquest and a temporary reprieve from men who would otherwise be our enemies.

Yuan Shu is currently the prefect of Wan. Let's take a look at it.

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Wan is situated on top of a hill, making it easy to defend. It has quite a few plots of land to develop, meaning that in time, it will have a strong economy. The cities to our east, south and west are unclaimed, meaning we can expand whenever we like. 4000 gold isn't much and we can only field a few generals with 27,000 men, but we can probably make due. There's just one problem...

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To our immediate north is Dong Zhuo's capital, Luo Yang. Actually, let's make that two problems.

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Both Luo Yang and Chang An connect directly to Wan. Between the two cities and his various forts, this places more than 200,000 soldiers in our immediate vicinity. But there's a silver lining, right?

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Well, no. These are our officers. We have quite a few of them, which is a very good thing. With smaller lords like Gongsun Du and Kong Rong, a lot of the early game is spent desperately searching for more officers. We get to avoid that hassle. Unfortunately, they're almost all bad. Our best guy is Ji Ling. Let's take a closer look at him.

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Ji Ling is a pretty decent general. His leadership and warfare, the two most important stats for battle, are both fairly good and his other stats are decent as well. He has an A ranking in cavalry, spears and pikes, which makes him versatile. The higher your ranking in these skills, the more your base damage and defense will be if that character is leading a unit with the corresponding skill. For instance, even if a character has 100 warfare and leadership, if they lead a unit that they have C skill in, they will probably lose to a unit that has only 70 warfare and leadership but A ranking.

Ji Ling is the guy that we're counting on for our early game. If he falls through, we're fucked. No pressure though, pal.

For comparison, here's Dong Zhuo's officer roster.

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This is not a fun list to look at. Any one of those guys at the top of the list could flatten us on their own. Considering that he's got 200,000 troops and his finger on the button, this will likely happen sooner rather than later. We need a plan.

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This is our buddy Cao Cao. He's not really our buddy but we have to act that way or he won't give us presents for Christmas. Cao Cao lives to our north and to the east of Luo Yang, Dong Zhuo's capital. If we're lucky, Dong Zhuo will focus his attention on Hu Lao Gate, which Cao Cao will inevitably attack. This will buy us time to build up our forces. If Dong Zhuo chooses to attack us instead, we can call in Cao Cao for help, since he's our ally. His worst guy is about as good as our best guy, so this will be a big help.

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There's also Xu Chang to our northeast. It might seem a bit premature, but I'm going to send some people out to Xu Chang to capture it. There are a couple reasons we want to do this. First, Xu Chang is a large city so it gains huge economic bonuses. After we've developed it, it will give us far more than Wan will. Second, it's a safe haven. Wan will probably get attacked and we will probably lose it. With Xu Chang, we have a backup. If things go sour at Xu Chang, we can always head further east. It also adds to our monthly AP gain. AP determines the amount of actions you can take monthly. Most actions, like building structures or fielding soldiers, take 10-20 AP. We currently gain 40 AP a month because Yuan Shu has a low political rating, so this will give us a much-needed AP boost. Lastly, it puts us closer to Cao Cao, who we want to jump on as soon as he starts to weaken.

Things are looking grim for Yuan Shu, but perhaps there's a light at the end of the tunnel. If we can hold out against Dong Zhuo's initial onslaught, we might be able to turn back the tides and take Luo Yang, and the emperor, for ourselves.
 

Mrowak

Arcane
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
3,947
Project: Eternity
I've been curious about this game for quite some time.

Carry on good sir! Show me if it is as good as they say. :salute:
 

Duckard

Augur
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
354
I've never played a Romance of the Three Kindoms game, but this is pretty interesting!

I hope the next update is a bit longer, by the way.
 

PorkaMorka

Arcane
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
5,090
I am excited for this LP. I have always wanted to play this game, but I never got around to it.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Good show. It makes a lot of sense to try and grab City 2 ASAP. In previous games the loyalty mechanic was a big factor, so that you could use intrigue options to bring in or even incite rebellion - and of course, nobody ever actually likes Dong Zhuo. Pity that's not really a big option in ROTK11 (did they cut out loyalty entirely? I forget).
 

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