Xor
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2008
- Messages
- 9,345
I don't know what the Squall is dead theory is, but I suspect it's as accurate as the indoctrination theory in ME3.I've played through FF8 twice; the first time when it first came out, and the second time a few years ago when I read the Squall is Dead theory and wanted to see if it held water (it actually does).
It's more like a visual novel for teenagers. The story and characters did absolutely nothing for me. Maybe if I had played through it when I was 14, like I did with FF7, I'd have been able to appreciate it better.The first playthrough I played it like a traditional rpg and I had mixed feelings about it; enthralled but I hated everything about the moronic junction system. My second playthrough resolved those feelings and made me really appreciate it. First I played it on PC so no load times, and second I used the no-encounter GF-ability so no stupid victory animations. And what the game ends up being is an adventure game, like Myst without the insanely difficult puzzles. Like taking what made Myst special and getting rid of the "gameplay" that made Myst frustrating. FF8 is just a simple adventure game with enthralling world building and a linear plot to progress through that has very light puzzles that anyone can finish without consulting a walkthrough.
A few things. BG2 is linear for a cRPG but it's downright open world compared to the average JRPG. And I don't know about others, but when I replay most RPGs I don't change my playstyle very much. Maybe I'll use a different character, or try to finish a side quest I never bother with, but I don't impose artificial limits on my gameplay. And I don't really see what any of this has to do with FF8 having replay value. I've played through Chrono Trigger at least a dozen times, and maybe more. On the SNES, on an emulator, with the fan translation (God, that was a mistake), on the PS1, on the DS...that game has replay value.Gold Box, IE and JA2 are enthralling game experiences, and landmark games, but surely you don't replay them in the exact same way each time? You give yourself a new challenge or try new content or try a new strategy or explore a new area. FF8 enthralls with its production, completely separate from gameplay. The story in FF8 is completely linear, railroaded, no C&C, even moreso than BG2. If FF8 lacked its production value, there would be no reason to replay it, just like a book poorly written would not be reread for pleasure even if it contained great ideas.
What?That's why I think FF8 should be compared to Ocarina of Time.
...What?Most would argue that Ocarina of Time is a better game. But are games today more like Ocarina of Time or more like FF8, for how they try to design the experience? For me its pretty clear that they are better at copying what worked in FF8.
I was with you until this paragraph. You've lost me. Modern games are trying to imitate OOT's gameplay? In what respect? And they try to imitate FF8's "production values"? Again, how? What did either of those games do that was 1) original and 2) influential?Most games today may try to imitate Ocarina's gameplay but they fail, but they imitate FF8's production value and cinematic style and succeed. That's what I meant by FF8 being influential and changed gaming. Bioshock and Last of Us and countless other games of this and the previous generation don't owe their gameplay to FF8, but they are following FF8's formula in terms of production and totality.
Okay, I'm not touching the rest of this. I just wanted to shit talk FF8, not get sucked into a serious discussion of FF8 as a work of art.If traditional games and rpg's are cheap and exploitative because they pander to bourgeois values (creating player pleasure by rewarding them for accomplishing easy, simple and mindless tasks), perhaps FF8 and the games influenced by it can also be criticized for being fascistic in their totality (creating player pleasure by taking away choice and reducing the player to a passive spectator, in this way movies and books also fall easily into fascism, cinema especially guilty of using music to dictate the audience's emotional response). These games strip away a player's individuality, subjectivity and creativity. If you value those things in a game (and that's what is pleasurable about sandbox games) you probably wouldn't enjoy FF8 (like you said, you feel like you are being forced to endure the moronic characters. I guess at least BG2 gives you a larger choice of NPCs to party with, and your main character is a blank canvas. That's also probably why Imoen gets so much hate, when BG2 players feel like they are forced to take her for story purposes). Different pleasures. FF8 has a beautifully crafted world but it's not one that you can fill with your own characters. Fascism in a nutshell so it doesn't quite escape the bourgeois trap.