Radiant AI - the first Pillar of Bullshit tumbles?

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

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I also saw plenty of people talking to one another as well as moving from one location to another. There was even a fellow in the city of Skingrad that approached me saying to meet him behind the chapel and that it would be worth my while. I wonder what he wanted.

That's obviously a behaviour which was especially scripted for a particular quest.
You wonder what he wanted? He wanted to give you a quest.
This was surely no consequence of radiant AI whatsoever, you will never meet a non quest relevant NPC behave in a similiar manner.

Geeze, do you also believe in santa claus?

 

[Seven]

NPC walk into restaurants...sit down...and eat without paying. While you have to pay! It's injust! No kidding here.

They can do very intelligent stuff, but it's random.

The point you miss is that we were specifically told about a quest where you could get an NPC to sell you a diamond if you stole all of his food (which in itself begs a fundamental question about RAI), but if he can simply go into an In and eat for free why would he bother to sell you the diamond?

At this point the contradictions and conflicts inherant in RAI are so numerous that it is safe to assume that at best it was a thoughtful attempt that failed and at worst it was overhyped bullshit--I lean towards the latter point of view.

 

[AZ]

People learn the hard way that codex was right about the hype. I haven’t seen eating npc-s yet, but if they don't pay on the spot, I don't see it as a problem. For example in the Middle Ages, native citizens and nobles did not paid for things on the spot.

It's a fun game, even mutch more better than Morrowind, but not an rpg at all.

 

[bryce777]

Well, the funny thing is - even if they did it as realistically as possible there is only so much joy to be garnished from NPCs walking around and eating. And that is not much.

It is stupid when they just stay completely still, but even in daggerfall where there was just a crowd of people walking to and fro at all times that was really enough for me.

We would be far better served making a bigger game world that seems relatively realistic. No tiny little cities.

They do not have to be full sized, but they seem pretty damn small....

 

[RK47]

The AI do walk around the world though. Find an adventurer looking type and follow him around as he go hunting, walk between cities.

Their conversations also can be very interesting or very boring depending on the situation. So far, I did see many people fighting bandits , monsters, or just found bodies lying around.


But it's diffenitely not as good as people expected

this is cool i can't wait to see this.

 

[bryce777]

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I also saw plenty of people talking to one another as well as moving from one location to another. There was even a fellow in the city of Skingrad that approached me saying to meet him behind the chapel and that it would be worth my while. I wonder what he wanted.

That's obviously a behaviour which was especially scripted for a particular quest.
You wonder what he wanted? He wanted to give you a quest.
This was surely no consequence of radiant AI whatsoever, you will never meet a non quest relevant NPC behave in a similiar manner.

Geeze, do you also believe in santa claus?

Maqybe he wanted a blowjob.

 

[Solik]

The RAI does what it needed to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[bryce777]

The RAI does what it needed to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

Generate hype to sell games?

 

[obediah]

The RAI does what it needed to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

Generate hype to sell games?

good one bryce!

I got a real kick out of fanboi defender 7 on the forums, talking about how Bethesda didn't hype RAI - it was the evil game press that ran with Bethesda's announcement of a modest scripting system for NPCs, with blah blah other excuses.

I wish he'd come over here, so I could shit in his face, and slap him while screaming "LOOK AT THE FUCKING NAME YOU RETARD!! HAVE YOU NOT LIVED LONG ENOUGH TO FIGURE OUT THAT GIVING THINGS FANCY NAMES LIKE 'RADIANT ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE' IS HYPE - ARRRRGHGHH".

Man, I've been surrounded by smart people too long, my tolerance for idiots is dangerously low.

 

[Solik]

Boy, you sure got me!

Why anyone here cares the least bit about hype is beyond me.

 

[obediah]

Why anyone here cares the least bit about hype is beyond me.

What do you mean?

I care about hype because I believe the purpose of pre-release information about a game should be to help me make an informed decision about whether I should purchase the game. Many developers and all publishers believe the purpose of pre-release information is to maximize first-week sales. The use of hype is one of the ways these two philosophies are in direct opposition.

 

[CrashDummy]

Why anyone here cares the least bit about hype is beyond me.

What do you mean?

I care about hype because I believe the purpose of pre-release information about a game should be to help me make an informed decision about whether I should purchase the game. Many developers and all publishers believe the purpose of pre-release information is to maximize first-week sales. The use of hype is one of the ways these two philosophies are in direct opposition.

While the Radiant AI isn't 'Amazing! OMGWTF' it is a step in the right direction.

I have seen a guy hunting a wolf and then he turned to attack me.

I pickpocketed a Imp guard, went into their barracks where they all sleep in one room. My plan was to steal some stuff to sell...I bumped into something and one guy woke up and then told the others to wake up and then I was attacke by like 8 Imp guards.

My cousin went into a house full of 3 dead bodies.

Some of the NPC's you see in the wilderness will attack you, some will bypass you.

I also heard a interesting conversation about a guard expressing how he felt bad that he failed the citizens...

But they shouldn't have "Dumbed' it down...okay who cares if some NPC goes on a killing spree...just respawn the shop owners and make the NPC's un-killable until they are not needed anymore.

But NPCs can kill eachother. Many people have reported guards fighting eachother, guards chasing citizens, and citizens fighting citizens.

So there is some cool stuff, but nothing amazing...like I said a step in the right direction. New technolodgy doesn't instantly reach it's prime...remember rag dolls? It used to suck when devs started to get dirty with it, but now the ideal is there in many games, just looks more realistic.

I am sure many games will use it...RAI is there in the game, just nothing amazing like they claimed that they had to take out to balance the world or whatever.

 

[Solik]

Because you should be able to see through fancy marketing phrases and words, and you shouldn't care if some people can't.

It was hyped in terms of making people excited, but the info was pretty accurate. We know they toned it down later on for playability reasons, but the functionality it was added to provide seems to be there.

 

[Jed]

i was riding my horse when i passed some chick that was getting sttacked by a bandit and she killed him. i stoped to check out some ruins that were right off the road where she was and a few min later another bandit came after her and she picked up the war hammer off the dead bandits body. i thought that was pretty awesome

I was fighting a group of enemies, and just when I was about to kill their wizard leader, he walked over to the body of one of his fallen comrades, picked up a health potion, drank it, and proceeded to kick my ass... in Avernum.

@Venom: What the hell happened? Yesterday you were defending Oblivion with your last breath, and today you're criticizing it???

 

[CrashDummy]

Because you should be able to see through fancy marketing phrases and words, and you shouldn't care if some people can't.

It was hyped in terms of making people excited, but the info was pretty accurate. We know they toned it down later on for playability reasons, but the functionality it was added to provide seems to be there.

Was it overhyped...yes it was overhyped.

Does it suck...no.

Is it scripted...well besides from the quest characters and the main characters...it isn't scripted. Some events may seem scripted but they are not. I don't get why they 'toned' it down though...a lot of people were excited because of the examples given...when the examples given were examples of the RAI before they supposedly toned it down.

But RAI in games like GTA and many many other games would make the games so much better. It is a great idea and is better than scripted A.I.

 

[Chefe]

i was riding my horse when i passed some chick that was getting sttacked by a bandit and she killed him. i stoped to check out some ruins that were right off the road where she was and a few min later another bandit came after her and she picked up the war hammer off the dead bandits body. i thought that was pretty awesome

I was fighting a group of enemies, and just when I was about to kill their wizard leader, he walked over to the body of one of his fallen comrades, picked up a health potion, drank it, and proceeded to kick my ass... in Avernum.

Owned, mother fucker.

 

[Venom]

i was riding my horse when i passed some chick that was getting sttacked by a bandit and she killed him. i stoped to check out some ruins that were right off the road where she was and a few min later another bandit came after her and she picked up the war hammer off the dead bandits body. i thought that was pretty awesome

I was fighting a group of enemies, and just when I was about to kill their wizard leader, he walked over to the body of one of his fallen comrades, picked up a health potion, drank it, and proceeded to kick my ass... in Avernum.

@Venom: What the hell happened? Yesterday you were defending Oblivion with your last breath, and today you're criticizing it???

Like I said, I love the game. But the Codex was right. This is not really an RPG. It's more of an action game. And as an action game, it's pretty much the best around.

 

[CrashDummy]

i was riding my horse when i passed some chick that was getting sttacked by a bandit and she killed him. i stoped to check out some ruins that were right off the road where she was and a few min later another bandit came after her and she picked up the war hammer off the dead bandits body. i thought that was pretty awesome

I was fighting a group of enemies, and just when I was about to kill their wizard leader, he walked over to the body of one of his fallen comrades, picked up a health potion, drank it, and proceeded to kick my ass... in Avernum.

@Venom: What the hell happened? Yesterday you were defending Oblivion with your last breath, and today you're criticizing it???

Like I said, I love the game. But the Codex was right. This is not really an RPG. It's more of an action game. And as an action game, it's pretty much the best around.

Well as a action game...I think the GTA series beats it...there is just more action there...just my 2 cents on it being the best action game around.

I think that title belongs to San Andreas...hell now I am even wondering if San Andreas has a bigger game world than Obivion?

 

[Jed]

@Chefe: Ha!

@Venom: Welcome to the 'Codex. Many, including myself, got our starts here after the disappointing dung-heap of Neverwinter Nights. Savor the cynicism.

 

[Chefe]

Jed: I didn't realize Avernum (which I've only played a few times) had such a robust AI system! Why, with skillz like that they should call it SUPER DOOPER RADIANT MOTHERFUCKING KICKASS AI. But they won't, because they're not stupid bitches.

 

[Solik]

Some of it works great and some of it doesn't. Example--

I was on a quest to follow this guy after he closed his shop. The first time, he wandered off to the gardens in town, chilled out a bit, talked to some people, wasted some time. Later, he went to the place that pertained to the quest.

The next time I followed him (I screwed up that one), he went to an inn instead. Sat down, chugged some drinks. I shadowed him in there, sat down at a table. Watched patrons come and go and have conversations. I almost felt like I was really shadowing somebody in a fantasy world. Except that guy sat down in a chair right beside the innkeeper (behind the bar), who was behind the bar not moving or carrying on conversations. So dipweed merchant guy kept looking up at inkeeper and saying "Hello again." every 30 seconds or so. Really more of an "automatic conversation" problem than an RAI "auto-scheduling" problem, but still an amusing, if annoying, error.

 

[Oarfish]

I think that title belongs to San Andreas...hell now I am even wondering if San Andreas has a bigger game world than Obivion?

Almost certainly, though can't dig up any stats.

 

[obediah]

Because you should be able to see through fancy marketing phrases and words.

The problem is that often when you do filter out the marketing phrases and words, there is very little to no information left. How many three+ page *views did we have to comb through for 1-2 bits of informtion about the actual game.

and you shouldn't care if some people can't.

I should and do care when those people are members of the press. If anyone has the power to end teh HYPE!1! it is the reviewers, previewers, and interviewers that lap up the shit like it's champaigne. The publishers are fucking angels compared to those ass holes.

 

[HardCode]

While the Radiant AI isn't 'Amazing! OMGWTF' it is a step in the right direction.

I have seen a guy hunting a wolf and then he turned to attack me.

Yeah, so?

I pickpocketed a Imp guard, went into their barracks where they all sleep in one room. My plan was to steal some stuff to sell...I bumped into something and one guy woke up and then told the others to wake up and then I was attacke by like 8 Imp guards.

I hold this as suspct information, because if the Goblins can't tell that their commrade 3 feet away was killed with an arrow, and Bethesda stated that NPCs do not react to sound, this sounds like 1. Scripted intentional event - or - 2. Bullshit.

My cousin went into a house full of 3 dead bodies.

Are you mental?

Some of the NPC's you see in the wilderness will attack you, some will bypass you.

Oh, so sM@rt!!!!

I also heard a interesting conversation about a guard expressing how he felt bad that he failed the citizens...

Nothing to do with AI.

 

[CrashDummy]

About the guards, my experience holds true. It is funny how you can claim it is bullshit when I suspect you don't even have the game. I snuck into the room, hit something and one of them jumped up, hollered something along the lines of "INTRUDER!" the other 4 or 5 jumped up and they instantly were clothed in their imp armor. I was killed within the next 30 seconds or less. You will hear many other stories of NPC's waking up if you fail sneaking in.

Conversations being initiated in the first place is part of the ARTIFICIAL INTELIGENCE, what would you put it under...presentation? If there is a event going on they will talk about it wheter you are around or not, some of the conversations are stupid and some are impressive...

I am sorry if you feel the need to bash Oblivion in every type of form there is, it doesn't matter to me. The game is great so far, put 20 hrs in and I am still at the start of it.

EDIT

Also, some of the little things NPC's do are a improvement over scripted A.I whether you think so or not. I rather see a NPC hunting knowing he did it because he wanted to rather then seeing a NPC hunting because some script told him to.

I promise...if this were the exact same thing in Gothic 3, some of the more biased posters here would be praising it.