Project status

[FrancoTAU]

Would you give them a credit line? They don't even know how to do teh capitalism!!!1!!!

I used to pirate everything as a poor college kid/scraping by first job out of college. You weren't ever going to get my money as i had none to spend. If you put some fancy Starforce protection on back in the day, than i'd neither pirate or buy the game. I guess the positive spin i can put on my piracy is that i've gone back and bought any kind of Collection/Jewel Case Version/Bargain Bin for the games that i pirated and liked. Also, it made me a fan of some series and devs that i went on to buy their future games

 

[LCJr.]

I won't defend piracy in any way, but an indie is way less likely to be pirated than a big brand game.

You can find keygens for all of Vogel's games. Well obviously excluding the early ones that were CD only releases.

Starforce obviously isn't all it's cracked up to be since Space Rangers 2:Dominators has already been pirated.

 

[Whipporowill]

You can find keygens for all of Vogel's games.

True, most games are pirated (even for mac), but then it's not like they're in general circulation like pc games iso's. Also, I'm sure some people that CAN pirate said games don't - if it's an indie game they like.

 

[FrancoTAU]

I won't defend piracy in any way, but an indie is way less likely to be pirated than a big brand game.

You can find keygens for all of Vogel's games. Well obviously excluding the early ones that were CD only releases.

Starforce obviously isn't all it's cracked up to be since Space Rangers 2:Dominators has already been pirated.

They are cracking Starforce now, but it's slow as hell for the piraters. Some of the games are so intergrated with the shit that they don't bother with it.

 

[aweigh]

Not all StarForce-protections are the same. It all depends on how much the publisher paid to have their game raped by SF. Splinter Cell 3 and King Kong won't be cracked for anytime soon (and SC3 is already about a year old). By the way, why the fuck would you pirate Vogels games? They're like 10 bucks.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Yeah really. Stealing is Stealing and all that, but wtf? Don't steal indy games that are geared at the ultra small niche(namely, us). A couple hundred sales lost could seriously mean the difference between having an Age of Decadence 2 or Avernum 58 (OMGZ LOL!)

 

[Drain]

By the way, why the fuck would you pirate Vogels games? They're like 10 bucks.

The average monthly wage in ukraine, for example, is around $120. $10 by ukrainian standards is like $250 by US standards(assuming $3000 monthly wage). $50 -> $1250

 

[LCJr.]

I have no clue why pirates do what they do. I've seen games nobody wanted pirated. Maybe Vogel's games are easy to crack and he was getting a good deal of publicity with Avernum 3 and Geneforge.

Still I can't wait to pirate VD's game. I'll rationalize it as it being an extended demo.

 

[Drain]

They felt that it's unclear which ones are the good options, and most people, according to some marketing crap, prefer to make positive decisions, so having a seemingly good option that may backfire and bite you in the ass was a very bad idea.

Most people prefer to make positive decisions because they are rewarded with big fat experience or other bonuses. Also most people are stupid.

 

[Seven]

By the way, why the fuck would you pirate Vogels games? They're like 10 bucks.

The average monthly wage in ukraine, for example, is around $120. $10 by ukrainian standards is like $250 by US standards(assuming $3000 monthly wage). $50 -> $1250

So how do they afford computers in the first place?

 

[Dhruin]

** They felt that it's unclear which ones are the good options, and most people, according to some marketing crap, prefer to make positive decisions, so having a seemingly good option that may backfire and bite you in the ass was a very bad idea.

Something like that.

I would think they are right -- at least as far as a mainstream audience is concerned. I guess they missed the part where indie, turn-based, low-magic RPGs aren't likely to be pitched at the mainstream in the first place.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Focus groups are the worst thing to happen to US Entertainment. By trying to appeal to everyone, they usually end up appealing to no one. Yeah, let's add a love story to an epic action flick to guys and gals love it! Pearl Harbor, here we come!

 

[Vault Dweller]

** They felt that it's unclear which ones are the good options, and most people, according to some marketing crap, prefer to make positive decisions, so having a seemingly good option that may backfire and bite you in the ass was a very bad idea.

Something like that.

I would think they are right -- at least as far as a mainstream audience is concerned. I guess they missed the part where indie, turn-based, low-magic RPGs aren't likely to be pitched at the mainstream in the first place.

Well, I don't think they were interested in selling something that mainstream would have no interest in, hence the suggestions. What pisses me off is the dry formulaic approach: people like making good decisions - put them in; people like getting phat loot - in; a fatherly figure in the life of an adventurer is always a plus - in, etc. I don't think they even tried to understand or care about what kinda game it is.

 

[Astromarine]

don't be a wimp. who were they?

 

[LCJr.]

Well, I don't think they were interested in selling something that mainstream would have no interest in, hence the suggestions. What pisses me off is the dry formulaic approach: people like making good decisions - put them in; people like getting phat loot - in; a fatherly figure in the life of an adventurer is always a plus - in, etc. I don't think they even tried to understand or care about what kinda game it is.

What's truly sad is that kind of approach sells.

 

[Vault Dweller]

don't be a wimp. who were they?

It's a (well) known company. I was really surprised when they emailed me. However, they asked me nicely to keep all the details confidential, so I'll comply.

Overall, I've been contacted by a number of smaller publishers I've never heard of who were dying to help me, just like they helped many other indie developers. I told them to give me the contact information of those happy developers or get the fuck off my internet. Never heard from them again.

That Stardock story comes to mind:

And when the PC sales go down, what's the reported reason? Piracy of course. Yea, it's piracy. Sure. In my experience of writing games, it's not pirates ripping us off of our hard earned money, it's been publishers. The tale of Galactic Civilizations is very similar to the tale of Swamp Castle from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

The other developers told me I was daft to write a space based strategy game for OS/2! So I wrote Galactic Civilizations for OS/2. I was a college student back then so I couldn't afford to get it into the stores. So a publisher called Advanced Idea Machines "published" it. They never paid us royalties and disappeared soon after. Since I had no money, I couldn't afford a lawyer at the time.

So I got smart. Stardock would publish the OS/2 sequel Galactic Civilizations II. So we made the game, manufactured the boxes, took care of all the marketing and getting it into the stores. And just to be safe, we had two distributors. One called Micro Central and the other one called Blue Orchards. Both went went out of business owing us hundreds of thousands of dollars.

That particular incident nearly wiped out Stardock.

But no matter, we recovered. We clawed our way back up and made it into the Windows market. We decided to make a Windows version and we decided to work with a well known publisher on it (Strategy First). This time everything would go perfectly...

Well, that was a year and a half ago and we're still waiting for royalty payments on most of their sales. But this time, we had an out -- direct electronic sales. People were able to buy the game directly from us and download the game.

So don't talk to me about piracy. It's not the pirates that have ripped us off of hundreds of thousands in lost royalties. It's been "Real businesses" doing that thank you very much. The position of royalty eating parasite has already been taken.

 

[Human Shield]

Why don't you try and get on Stardock's Totalgaming.net. A lot of turn-based fans on it.

 

[Spazmo]

Advanced Idea Machines? Isn't that the supervillain organization from the Marvel universe? It might be Advanced Idea Mechanics, but shit, that's got to be a dead giveaway to any competent geek.

 

[Deacdo]

don't be a wimp. who were they?

It's a (well) known company. I was really surprised when they emailed me. However, they asked me nicely to keep all the details confidential, so I'll comply.

Overall, I've been contacted by a number of smaller publishers I've never heard of who were dying to help me, just like they helped many other indie developers. I told them to give me the contact information of those happy developers or get the fuck off my internet. Never heard from them again.

That Stardock story comes to mind:

And when the PC sales go down, what's the reported reason? Piracy of course. Yea, it's piracy. Sure. In my experience of writing games, it's not pirates ripping us off of our hard earned money, it's been publishers. The tale of Galactic Civilizations is very similar to the tale of Swamp Castle from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

The other developers told me I was daft to write a space based strategy game for OS/2! So I wrote Galactic Civilizations for OS/2. I was a college student back then so I couldn't afford to get it into the stores. So a publisher called Advanced Idea Machines "published" it. They never paid us royalties and disappeared soon after. Since I had no money, I couldn't afford a lawyer at the time.

So I got smart. Stardock would publish the OS/2 sequel Galactic Civilizations II. So we made the game, manufactured the boxes, took care of all the marketing and getting it into the stores. And just to be safe, we had two distributors. One called Micro Central and the other one called Blue Orchards. Both went went out of business owing us hundreds of thousands of dollars.

That particular incident nearly wiped out Stardock.

But no matter, we recovered. We clawed our way back up and made it into the Windows market. We decided to make a Windows version and we decided to work with a well known publisher on it (Strategy First). This time everything would go perfectly...

Well, that was a year and a half ago and we're still waiting for royalty payments on most of their sales. But this time, we had an out -- direct electronic sales. People were able to buy the game directly from us and download the game.

So don't talk to me about piracy. It's not the pirates that have ripped us off of hundreds of thousands in lost royalties. It's been "Real businesses" doing that thank you very much. The position of royalty eating parasite has already been taken.

And some people wonder why I fear so much for my favorite franchise (Jagged Alliance).

Also, this is essentially the reason Sirtech died. Their publishers ripped them off, big-time.

Hopefully STEAM and other ways of distribution will help counter crap publishers like Strategy First.

 

[Whipporowill]

Strategy First.

Last I head they joined up with steam?

 

[Psilon]

Strategy First.

Last I head they joined up with steam?

And TGN. They're still in bankruptcy, though, from what I last heard.

 

[Deacdo]

Strategy First.

Last I head they joined up with steam?

They're using it as a method of distribution for some licenses they already own. Steam could still be very useful for some "self published" titles (well, I hope).

 

[FrancoTAU]

Well, either way i hope VD and guys who are making Eschalon(sp?) are just as succesful as Jeff Vogel. It's a niche market, but seriously... it's not nearly a saturated market. I think i can swing buying more than 3-4 indy RPGs a year for 25 bucks a pop.

 

[PrzeSzkoda]

Don't you goddamn commies have credit cards over in bizzaro-land?

Of course we have credit cards, but with overseas wire-transfers the costs are so awfully high that it would be more reasonable to get a visa and go to VD-land on a plane to throw a fraternity-like party with the goal of copying the game from his HDD while he's hungover (or am I wrong about the wire-transfers? Do tell I'm wrong).

All those fancy paypals and moneybookers' are still far from popular and widespread around here. And there's still the currency conversion factor involved (until we start getting paid in Euros in the very least).

And we're not commies anymore (in Poland, that is)! We're the only true Catholic country, defending the ignorant from not only the Muslims, but also from themselves and whatever, God save Ojciec Rydzyk and Radio Maryja. Amen, fuckers.

 

[Elwro]

Of course we have credit cards, but with overseas wire-transfers the costs are so awfully high that it would be more reasonable to get a visa and go to VD-land on a plane to throw a fraternity-like party with the goal of copying the game from his HDD while he's hungover (or am I wrong about the wire-transfers? Do tell I'm wrong).

The party idea is fine, but if you're afraid of planes and don't want to risk ships anymore after the tragedy, I'd just use mBank's eCard. I have it, I use it for buying online, and e.g. bought Vogel's Avernum Trilogy with it. I had to pay a bit extra due to currency conversion etc, but not it was not that much.

We're the only true Catholic country, defending the ignorant from not only the Muslims, but also from themselves and whatever, God save Ojciec Rydzyk and Radio Maryja. Amen, fuckers.

Amen, brother! Glory to the Mighty Twin Ducks!