Pirates cause Funcom to stick to MMOs

[Jasede]

This discussion feels almost Orwellian, with the supporters of the "IP" nonsense trying again and again to redefine the meaning of the word "theft". Theft means taking something away from someone. No laughable brainwashing attempt will ever convince me - or any other sane person - otherwise.

Please. FFS. Not this horrible, shitty argument again. It crops up /every single damn time/ when piracy gets mentioned and ends in a huge debate in which the forces of good valiantly try to convince you retards that it is, indeed, theft. I'm too tired for this shit. DU, can we sticky the "Piracy is theft" argumentation somewhere? I'll puke if I ever have to see this retarded debate again.

 

[Elwro]

What, piracy is theft just because it consists of taking something illegally? Funny, since www.allofmp3.com is piracy in pure form and it operates legally. It's not so simple, guys.

 

[bylam]

There is no denying that pirating anything is against the law in most countries. I don't understand why people even bother discussing that. It is defined quite clearly in most laws and that is it, case closed.
However, I think that piracy plays a very important role in the industry (games, music, movies) in that it is forcing publishers to scramble to find a solution.

I live in Norway, and I download a couple of TV shows from the pirate bay every week. These tv shows are not available on public television in Norway and there is nothing to indicate that they ever will be. From that, it follows that it is unlikely that the DVDs of these shows will ever be available here either.
But I really want to watch those shows. For me the risk is far less than the reward.

And essentially that is what the affects of piracy are all about. Digital distribution is a new thing, and companies are scrambling to find a system that works. Look at the success of iTunes Music Store - the distribution model and pricing structure are a direct result of the influence of piracy. They found a model that encourages people to do the right thing and costs little enough that people chose not to risk being caught pirating.

Right now North American companies are tweaking this model. Soon enough it will become standardized (already happening in the music industry) and will filter across all forms of digital media.
And then it will happen in Europe as well.

Just like most of us don't shoplift because "it isn't worth it" to be caught, it won't be long before the same philosophy will apply to stealing games,movies and music.

But let us never forget that without the pirates the industry would never be evolving as fast as it is.

 

[obediah]

What do they charge you with in the courts for it? That should settle the argument.

The RIAA charges people with copyrght infringement. I tracked down several warez ring busts, and the criminal charge listed was conspiracy to commit criminal copyright infringement.

I don't get the wee brains that just can't comprehend that theft has a specific definition that piracy doesn't fit. I can only guess and weep that these untermensch would get just as worked up if I suggested that extortion and fraud aren't theft either. *gasp*

 

[DarkSign]

What do they charge you with in the courts for it? That should settle the argument.

Being the lawyer here, I'll answer this one: trademark, patent and copyright infringement, as well as illegal distribution and sale of counterfeit goods. Depending on jurisdiction your mileage may vary.

It boils down to the fact that human beings survive off of finite resources. Society breaks down when the value of my output is not returned to me. I can bargain that value away badly (contract & property law) or can have it taken for civil (tort law) or criminal reasons (crim law)...but when it's taken away merely because people can - not because they should...that's destructive to society.

OpenSource models work because people contribute their freetime while keeping "real jobs" to make sure they have a roof over their heads and food on their tables.

It's great for socialists to want to "free" information but that's emotional, misguided drivel.

 

[Goliath]

What constitutes "theft" is irrelevant to how much the item is worth, how much it cost to produce or whether or not anyone was harmed. All that matters is that it was acquired without permission.

You know, I just disagree. I still you respect you though, because just like me you are not hypocrite. I mean, look at my avatar - I have "pirated" it - took it without permission. Copyright belongs to Games Workshop, I think. But hey, I am a communist nazi pirate, people like me do such stuff. You call it theft, the lawyers call it copyright infringement, I do not care.

But you, an upright American, you do not do that. You took the time to ask Interplay, Electronic Arts, SirTech, Troika, Firaxis etc. for permission before you used their copyrighted artwork for your website (avatars). I think it is great that all those companies agreed to allow RPGCodex to use their artwork BTW. They are way nicer than I thought! Maybe I should change my opinion about corporations!

 

[obediah]

Oh, we're getting close to the main event of the thread.

I stirred up the "theft! theft! theft!" crowd for the undercard, but now we can have Darksign and copx go at it over opposing philosophies on ip. Capitalist scum vs commie eurotrash. Fight!

 

[Goliath]

I stirred up the "theft! theft! theft!" crowd for the undercard, but now we can have Darksign and copx go at it over opposing philosophies on ip. Capitalist scum vs commie eurotrash. Fight!

Now, I will not do it anymore. Because you have HURT MY FEELINGS!
"Eurotrash"? France is part of Europe, damnit!

 

[obediah]

I stirred up the "theft! theft! theft!" crowd for the undercard, but now we can have Darksign and copx go at it over opposing philosophies on ip. Capitalist scum vs commie eurotrash. Fight!

Now, I will not do it anymore. Because you have HURT MY FEELINGS!

Well now you know how your icon makes GW feel.

"Eurotrash"? France is part of Europe, damnit!

Sorry, I was sampling previous insults from the thread.

If you won't participate we'll just have to assume you support extending patent, copyright, and trademark rights to infinity, and allowing content providers to require EULA for all transactions and allowing EULA terms to superscede national and international law.

e.g. from the new __POP_MUSIC_SENSATION__ single EULA:

"agrees that RIAA will serve as their voting proxy in all local, state, and federal elections throughout life"

"grants a $.05 transaction to RIAA accounts every time song is played"

"playing this music in a public will be punishable by immediate execution via RIAA Drone. All rights and proceeds from said execution belong to RIAA"

And if you don't agree, just don't click yes. Power to the consumer!!!!!!!!

 

[aries202]

Please note that the copyright and anti-pirating laws are different in some European countries
those in the U.S.A where somehow, imo, the industry has had succes with its anti-piracy campaign, blaming (assumed) lost sales onto
piracy.

I, for one, am tired of EULAS that state that this software is not sold to you, it is only licensed to you. Furthermore, the EULS limited warranta breaks the warranty law in the European Union in ehich a customer has 2 year year warranty period form purchase of the product. (or software).

This is very disturbing from a customer right's viewpoint. This means that Bioware or THQ just can revoke their license for say Jade Empire:SE anytime which again means that people won't be able to play this game, or other games as well, any more.

And with M$ Games For Windows and DRM management included in Vista, this could actually happen. The DRM could decide that you, even if you paid for the product (license) to use this product/software is no longer valid, because of something yoy did while were on the net - maybe you have said something about DRM the industry doesn't like or maybe you have visited web-sites of ill repute or something like that.

Most EULAs also state that you are only allowed to install the software onto one machine, thus forcing you to buy another piece of software (game) if you want to install the game (software) on your computer in your cabinor on your laptop.

I'm sorry, but I don't get it. I have paid say $100- to purchase this game, and all I get out of it - is having a license that tells me, the customer, what I cannot do with the game that I legally have bought.
Under the pretense that it is not game, but is is a piece of software, which is licenced to me - from the developers and publishers of the game.

Imagine if this was done with books or music cds?
People would be in a state of uproar ?
Imagine if you bought a book, wrapped in plastic, and before you could even read it, you were to agree to a EULA that said something like 'this book is NOT your property, it is only LICENSED to you so may read it - one time. After you're finished reading the book, the book will self-destruct.
You may then NOT, under any circumstance borrow a friend's book nor make a copy of this book, so that you can lend this book out to your friends.' (I'm exageratting a little, but I hope you get the point).

When I was much younger than today -- I remember that we borrowed cassette tapes from each other way back when and then in 7th and 8th grade. When we got to college, we were lending and borrowing music cds. And then in the late 1990's, we were borrowing games from each other.
(not pirating games or making copies of games,
but lending and borrowing games to and from each other).

The point is that now this is made il-legal by the EULAs -- and why. Because of --- fear --- and possibly greed. Fear that the industry might loose money - and greed since the industry wants
to make a huge profit. (more than it need to re-invest).

But then I think there's is enough in the world for everyon'es need - but not for everyone's greed.

 

[Goliath]

Well now you know how your icon makes GW feel.

But it's ok to hurt them, because they are EVIL!!!!

If you won't participate we'll just have to assume you support extending patent, copyright, and trademark rights to infinity, and allowing content providers to require EULA for all transactions and allowing EULA terms to superscede national and international law.

Ok, feel free to assume that!

 

[DarkSign]

Then revolt. You dont like only getting a license...you have an option - dont buy it.

Dont think you as one person makes a difference? Start a movement - or join in one (GPL) or something and use your dollars as voting cards.

The problem is that this issue was really decided back years earlier. Software wasnt always on license - (read drug-dealer plastic baggy days) but the fight was to have been fought when things switched over.

With books - people would do what they're used to. If people had never gotten used to books being mostly-permanent, multi-use items and we grew up in a totally digital, e-book society, who knows what we'd put up with. You're right that the way books are used is a much better model, but again...its what you the consumer will put up with that determines what happens.

 

[OsirisGod]

I thought Funcom droped the offline market after The Longest Journey when they funeled all their funds in making anarchy online , wich then probablly stoped making any money at all since the subscription to the basic pakage is now free since last year , i assume DreamFall was made to try to milk some cash from an old licence since their MMO stoped making money , but the issue here is that they are not Bethesda and they didn't hype it enough to attract the crowd it was targeted at and the fans of the old game are the adventure crowd wich doesn't do to well in action games imho.

 

[Bloodeyes]

I don't know why people bother with these silly arguments on the morality of piracy. It seems perfectly clear to me: Games are too prohibitively expensive (and usually shit), and piracy is free.

Is it theft? Hell yeah. Do I care? Hell no.

What it boils down to for me is the choice between taking the moral high ground, and being able to play the games I want to.

I especially like that old anti piracy message that says "You wouldn't steal a stereo" or whatever it is. The hell I wouldn't. If stealing a stereo were as easy and relatively risk free as downloading a game, I fuckin' would, and you would too.

 

[Marsal]

I especially like that old anti piracy message that says "You wouldn't steal a stereo" or whatever it is. The hell I wouldn't. If stealing a stereo were as easy and relatively risk free as downloading a game, I fuckin' would, and you would too.

 

[Pegultagol]

I think Funcom should just inundate their games with advertising. Then at least they might be able to salvage some value from all the piracy.

 

[Top Hat]

I think Funcom should just inundate their games with something other than horrible console-cock-sucking action sequences. Then at least they might be able to salvage some dignity from all the IP mismanagement in Dreamfall.

Should one pirate Sid Meier's Pirates! ?