Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Drudkh]

I suppose a n00b hearing this will think "genius!", but truth is, he failed at the execution. And D&D does it better. Just compare Baldur's Gate II or NWN2 with PoE and see who has more customization options.

Let's take the wizard, for example. In PoE you can tune it to deal more damage (Might), have longer effects (int), have more health (Con), go faster (Dex), interrupt others (Per) or more defense (Res). Tune this all you want, the difference will be like +20% more X" at most.

Now, indeed a person should focus on Int when making a Wizard in D&D.

But think is, that's the most basic D&D possible. If you wanna min-max or customize your characters into crazy shit, multi-classing has always been an option. Play a Wizard/Rogue; Wizard/Cleric; Wizard/Fighter; Wizard/Fighter/Rogue, etc... then there are prestige classes, which promote even more exotic play - you DON'T need +16 Int when playing an Eldrich Knight or Arcane Trickster. Not to mention (again), the multiple schools of magic. Or the metamagic spells, like Empower Spell. Or the countless magic items that affect your attributes or have attribute requirements.

Seriously, this guy worked on NWN2, which has all this implemented, and want to say how his shitty system is so much superior at allowing customization? I mean, FFS, Arcanum's background alone offered a more diverse customization than this stupid % bonus distribution mini-game

Goddamn, that's extremely well put. You have me sold, but it's not so much the doling out of the attributes but the unique passive and active class skills that make the build tinkering fun in PoE.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I'll be very curious to see the amount of interest PoE 2 will generate. The people who responded to the PoE announcement were fans of the IE games, but the people who will respond to PoE 2's announcement will be fans of PoE. I'm curious how much of a difference there will be between the two groups.

 

[Infinitron]

I'll be very curious to see the amount of interest PoE 2 will generate. The people who responded to the PoE announcement were fans of the IE games, but the people who will respond to PoE 2's announcement will be fans of PoE. I'm curious how much of a difference there will be between the two groups.

I'll tell you what will happen. It will make less on Fig/Kickstarter than PoE did, and then there will be tiresome arguments on this forum about whether that's because of backer dissatisfaction or because of inevitable diminishing returns and crowdfunding being less popular than it was in 2012.

If Obsidian are smart, they should start the campaign real soon after the release of White March Part 2 and use the game's main menu news thingie to throw a popup on screen when the crowdfunding campaign begins. badler are you reading

 

[Anthedon]

I'll be very curious to see the amount of interest PoE 2 will generate. The people who responded to the PoE announcement were fans of the IE games, but the people who will respond to PoE 2's announcement will be fans of PoE. I'm curious how much of a difference there will be between the two groups.

I'll tell you what will happen. It will make less on Fig/Kickstarter than PoE did, and then there will be tiresome arguments on this forum about whether that's because of backer dissatisfaction or because of inevitable diminishing returns and crowdfunding being less popular than it was in 2012.

If Obsidian are smart, they should start the campaign real soon after the release of White March Part 2 and use the game's main menu news thingie to throw a popup on screen when the crowdfunding campaign begins. badler are you reading

Have there been any hints that they will use Kickstarter again? Paradox could surely afford to fund PoE 2, if it does happen. It would probably be better anyway, allowing them to flesh things out more (looking at you Defiance Bay). OTOH they might do a campaign just for PR reasons and to gauge interest.

 

[Infinitron]

I'll tell you what will happen. It will make less on Fig/Kickstarter than PoE did, and then there will be tiresome arguments on this forum about whether that's because of backer dissatisfaction or because of inevitable diminishing returns and crowdfunding being less popular than it was in 2012.

If Obsidian are smart, they should start the campaign real soon after the release of White March Part 2 and use the game's main menu news thingie to throw a popup on screen when the crowdfunding campaign begins. badler are you reading

Have there been any hints that they will use Kickstarter again? Paradox could surely afford to fund PoE 2, if it does happen. It would probably be better anyway, allowing them to flesh things out more (looking at you Defiance Bay). OTOH they might do a campaign just for PR reasons and to gauge interest.

They're looking at crowdfunding, might be Fig rather than Kickstarter: http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=10151

 

[Drudkh]

All crowdfunding aside, "gaming media" hype can make or break a game that doesn't have AAA caliber advertising (like fallout and the witcher) nowadays. (it's quite disgusting) Just look at the trendy darling that is Undertale.

PoE was lucky to get alot of great reviews and very positive coverage from even the most fickle gaming sites that usually reserve good scores for very pretty high budget games. Perhaps those sites were honest or maybe they were scared of offending the "hardcore" pc gamer crowd, but either way, if PoE 2 comes out and doesn't have some large boost in its graphics to appease idiots, or some kind of girl power scenario to make it trendy, it's unlikely that it will get the same reviews i think.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Additionally, Josh hates D&D's prestige classes because they require you to plan out your entire build from level 1 and if you make a mistake while leveling, welp goodbye build.

Of course, he hates something for the most retarded reasons.

What a horrible thing, you intend to build a character a certain way to get some bonuses, but if you you are retarded and are unable to push the correct buttons you fail. My god, plz remove, and in fact, let's also remove half of the system while we're at it. What if you click on constitution when you want to click on strength??? Well, goodbye build then, that's what!

You would think that if you want to get a prestige class you'd actually pay attention to the requirements. But that can't be expected from Obsidian's target audience, of course.

Yeah, you gave me a list of names, but does any of that feel extraordinarily different?

None of these games were designed for solo runs and I refuse to play or evaluate them as such.

hi plz explain to me stuff I will never listen to or bother to check after all i'm just an autistic troll

 

[Roguey]

What a horrible thing, you intend to build a character a certain way to get some bonuses, but if you you are retarded and are unable to push the correct buttons you fail. My god, plz remove, and in fact, let's also remove half of the system while we're at it. What if you click on constitution when you want to click on strength??? Well, goodbye build then, that's what!

You would think that if you want to get a prestige class you'd actually pay attention to the requirements. But that can't be expected from Obsidian's target audience, of course.

RPGs are dozens of hours long. It's quite possible for someone to momentarily forget that one feat or skill requirement for just one level-up and only realize they permanently messed up their plan hours later.

hi plz explain to me stuff I will never listen to or bother to check after all i'm just an autistic troll

IME, in the context of BG, a six-character party-based game with a low level cap, a dual- or multiclassed spellcaster is just a gimped spellcaster. Meanwhile thief/x builds are just a convenient trap-disarmer and lockpicker who can contribute more than just an occasional backstab in combat.

This does change once you reach those higher BG2-esque levels but I thought you guys hated Bethesda-style master-of-all-trades characters.

 

[Fry]

PoE was lucky to get alot of great reviews and very positive coverage from even the most fickle gaming sites that usually reserve good scores for very pretty high budget games. Perhaps those sites were honest or maybe they were scared of offending the "hardcore" pc gamer crowd, but either way, if PoE 2 comes out and doesn't have some large boost in its graphics to appease idiots, or some kind of girl power scenario to make it trendy, it's unlikely that it will get the same reviews i think.

For small games, it's less about the score and more about convincing the big sites to bother reviewing it at all. Obsidian's history and reputation combined with PoE's place as one of the biggest crowd funded games pretty much guaranteed the game would get reviewed widely. They also used the Paradox connection to do a lot of press and preview the game at a lot of trade shows., which helps.

I think PoE 2 will be reviewed by most of the same sites if Paradox gets behind it. I agree the score will be probably be lower if it looks pretty much the same, but that might be balanced out a bit if Obsidian changes some things that I see a lot of casuals complaining about. Mainly, make the story "better" (which will probably end up meaning less wordy and more focused), and make combat less hectic. If it's done right, these are changes that might even make the Codex happy.

 

[Shevek]

Additionally, Josh hates D&D's prestige classes because they require you to plan out your entire build from level 1 and if you make a mistake while leveling, welp goodbye build.

Of course, he hates something for the most retarded reasons.

What a horrible thing, you intend to build a character a certain way to get some bonuses, but if you you are retarded and are unable to push the correct buttons you fail. My god, plz remove, and in fact, let's also remove half of the system while we're at it. What if you click on constitution when you want to click on strength??? Well, goodbye build then, that's what!

You would think that if you want to get a prestige class you'd actually pay attention to the requirements. But that can't be expected from Obsidian's target audience, of course.

Yeah, you gave me a list of names, but does any of that feel extraordinarily different?

None of these games were designed for solo runs and I refuse to play or evaluate them as such.

hi plz explain to me stuff I will never listen to or bother to check after all i'm just an autistic troll

Actually, thats a rather good reason to hate prestige classes. They were shit for exactly the reason Sawyer stated they were shit. This why 5E edition is a far better game than 3.5 ever was. 3.5 was a splatbook mess that pushed gamers to buy or steal dozens of supplements to cobble together builds by taking x level of this to qualify for y levels of that and finally get some random power.

Example:
Oh you, want to be a ranger that goes into Ruby Knight Vindicator? Well, you need Turn Undead, so you need to go in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft and get x levels of Knight of the Raven. To really optimize it, make sure you make your guy a Mystic Ranger and the Sword of the Arcane Order Feat. God, what a shit system.

It was a shit implementation that made zero sense roleplaying wise and was all around stupid.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Without MCA and with Sawyer leading the sequel, I have little hope that it will be anything but the same bland by the numbers experience we got the first time around.

 

[Excidium II]

Additionally, Josh hates D&D's prestige classes because they require you to plan out your entire build from level 1 and if you make a mistake while leveling, welp goodbye build.

Of course, he hates something for the most retarded reasons.

What a horrible thing, you intend to build a character a certain way to get some bonuses, but if you you are retarded and are unable to push the correct buttons you fail. My god, plz remove, and in fact, let's also remove half of the system while we're at it. What if you click on constitution when you want to click on strength??? Well, goodbye build then, that's what!

You would think that if you want to get a prestige class you'd actually pay attention to the requirements. But that can't be expected from Obsidian's target audience, of course.

Yeah, you gave me a list of names, but does any of that feel extraordinarily different?

None of these games were designed for solo runs and I refuse to play or evaluate them as such.

hi plz explain to me stuff I will never listen to or bother to check after all i'm just an autistic troll

Actually, thats a rather good reason to hate prestige classes. They were shit for exactly the reason Sawyer stated they were shit. This why 5E edition is a far better game than 3.5 ever was. 3.5 was a splatbook mess that pushed gamers to buy or steal dozens of supplements to cobble together builds by taking x level of this to qualify for y levels of that and finally get some random power.

Example:
Oh you, want to be a ranger that goes into Ruby Knight Vindicator? Well, you need Turn Undead, so you need to go in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft and get x levels of Knight of the Raven. To really optimize it, make sure you make your guy a Mystic Ranger and the Sword of the Arcane Order Feat. God, what a shit system.

It was a shit implementation that made zero sense roleplaying wise and was all around stupid.

PoE systems sucks more still.

They should just stop forcing Sawyer to make something under the shadow of D&D.

 

[Shevek]

Naw, not really. PoE's system is solid as far as character building goes. I wouldnt put it up to 5E standards but I enjoy it more than the mess that is 3.5E. The system has some flaws but all systems do. I would say the main thing they need to address in a sequel is a bunch of little stuff like making grazes for non-damaging abilities weaker (not just shorter duration) and making all racial choices interesting mechanics wise.

 

[Excidium II]

I wouldnt put it up to 5E standards

Some high standards.

 

[Infinitron]

Excidium II, I never did figure something out. When you burnt out of the game after hitting the Od Nua ogres, was that before or after you'd visited Defiance Bay first?

 

[Shevek]

Ya, fifth edition is that good. I would be happy to debate on that.

 

[Excidium II]

Excidium II, I never did figure something out. When you burnt out of the game after hitting the Od Nua ogres, was that before or after you'd visited Defiance Bay first?

I didn't get there, I did Maerwald quest and decided to check the paths. Got burnt out and decided it's better off waiting for Gold/Enhanced/GOTY/whatever edition and play a fully patched & content complete game.

Everyone smart should do that with those modern CRPGs, but it sucks being left out of the club while everyone is playing and talking about them.

 

[FeelTheRads]

RPGs are dozens of hours long. It's quite possible for someone to momentarily forget that one feat or skill requirement for just one level-up and only realize they permanently messed up their plan hours later.

More bullshit and lies, as usual from the autistic troll. If you are not retarded and check the requirements you don't make mistakes. It's not like you have to memorize them.

Also, unless there's a very small level cap it's quite possible that these supposeds mistakes won't even matter.

IME, in the context of BG, a six-character party-based game with a low level cap, a dual- or multiclassed spellcaster is just a gimped spellcaster. Meanwhile thief/x builds are just a convenient trap-disarmer and lockpicker who can contribute more than just an occasional backstab in combat.

This does change once you reach those higher BG2-esque levels but I thought you guys hated Bethesda-style master-of-all-trades characters.

Yes, I forgot. If something is not the perfect solution then it's gimped. Let's enjoy the diversity of everything being always perfect for everything. Well, or maybe 5% less than perfect, but we'll solve that at the exciting level up.

Eh, but what's best is that as expected the apologists are now in full damage control. First it was just a beta, then just the first game, now it's just the first expansion, then it will only be the second expansion or game. Hey, by the 3rd or 4th game maybe we'll have something that's at least close to the games it's supposed to be inspired from? Nah, let's give them some more chanches , eh? Two or three new franchises and 2 more Kickstarter cashgrabs tops! Then we're talking!

Actually, thats a rather good reason to hate prestige classes. They were shit for exactly the reason Sawyer stated they were shit.

What? That was about computer games. Don't expect Roguey to have any clue about the PnP. Not that not having a clue ever stops him.

 

[Fairfax]

800k? I thought the latest info was that it sold about 600k to this moment?

It's very close to 700,000 right now. If they make over 800,000 by March 26, it'll be as successful as D:OS was.

Keep in mind ~80k are backers. D:OS had 20k backers.

 

[Infinitron]

Excidium II, I never did figure something out. When you burnt out of the game after hitting the Od Nua ogres, was that before or after you'd visited Defiance Bay first?

I didn't get there, I did Maerwald quest and decided to check the paths. Got burnt out and decided it's better off waiting for Gold/Enhanced/GOTY/whatever edition and play a fully patched & content complete game.

Haha, knew it.

It's been a while now, so let me tell you guys a secret. Same thing happened to me. Made me take a month off from the game. The Endless Paths are a trap for hardcore RPG players, since hardcore RPG dude rules dictates that you always try to clear out an area before moving to the next one. Big mistake, and I'm pretty sure it's made many people hate the game.

What's confusing to me is those who do move on to the combat-lite Defiance Bay and then hate that too instead of finding it a refreshing change of pace. After that I got there I couldn't put the game down and was doing 5 hour a day sessions until I finished the game.

 

[Roguey]

More bullshit and lies, as usual from the autistic troll. If you are not retarded and check the requirements you don't make mistakes. It's not like you have to memorize them.

I don't know what sort of person you're picturing in your head, but from comments that a lot of people make, I get the feeling you see a moron, a person who doesn't really like games, who isn't enthusiastic about them in the same way that you are. In some cases, this is true. But I've seen hundreds of volunteer and professional testers come and go. Most of them are actually pretty intelligent. They like or love games. They like or love RPGs and have played a bunch of them. They're still not terrific at them. They miss a bunch of things and they make a bunch of mistakes.

Wouldn't you say one of the benefits of pregenerated characters is that they provide a useful loose guideline to determine which attributes are good for each class? One would have to be intentionally not paying attention to make a bad character.

Even good players often don't pay attention.

 

[Excidium II]

Excidium II, I never did figure something out. When you burnt out of the game after hitting the Od Nua ogres, was that before or after you'd visited Defiance Bay first?

I didn't get there, I did Maerwald quest and decided to check the paths. Got burnt out and decided it's better off waiting for Gold/Enhanced/GOTY/whatever edition and play a fully patched & content complete game.

Haha, knew it.

It's been a while now, so let me tell you guys a secret. Same thing happened to me. Made me take a month off from the game. The Endless Paths are a trap for hardcore RPG players, since hardcore RPG dude rules dictates that you always try to clear out an area before moving to the next one. Big mistake, and I'm pretty sure it's made many people hate the game.

What's confusing to me is those who do move on to the combat-lite Defiance Bay and then hate that too instead of finding it a refreshing change of pace. After that I got there I couldn't put the game down and was doing 5 hour a day sessions until I finished the game.

Lack of balance also helped burning out, I started over like four times because I was unsatisfied with class choices.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Haha, knew it.

It's been a while now, so let me tell you guys a secret. Same thing happened to me. Made me take a month off from the game. The Endless Paths are a trap for hardcore RPG players, since hardcore RPG dude rules dictates that you always try to clear out an area before moving to the next one. Big mistake, and I'm pretty sure it's made many people hate the game.

What's confusing to me is those who do move on to the combat-lite Defiance Bay and then hate that too instead of finding it a refreshing change of pace. After that I got there I couldn't put the game down and was doing 5 hour a day sessions until I finished the game.

Ah yes, people hated the game because they didn't play it as intended... How refreshing.

 

[FeelTheRads]

retarded bullshit

Yawn. Out of argument -> copy/paste quotes.

You get boring quickly.

 

[Roguey]

He's in a position to know what kind and how many people are making mistakes, you're not.