Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Prime Junta]

This worries me for some reason. Not that it can't be circumvented, but it pretty much destroys any chance of character-driven story. It relegates the important events to happen in the background, with you just having to react to them, not being in the conversation, but being told what happens. This is a major problem in PoE1 as well. It CAN work (BG1 for example), but it's passive and it actually reduces the chance for you to "do what you want".

P1 wasn't really structured this way though. It's a classic three-act story, with a bit of freedom inside the chapters.

They're going for a Fallout: New Vegas style structure here. It doesn't preclude character-driven stories, it just means that these stories will have to be structured in different ways. For example, they could be related to your companions or such. Since intra-party relationship shenanigans are a major focus, I think that's what they want to do. How well they'll succeed is a different matter of course.

In principle there's nothing there to preclude Planescape: Torment level of personal story about the structure: that was a voyage of self-discovery, of finding pieces of a big puzzle and putting them together. That doesn't need to happen in linear progression: the pieces can be scattered around the world leaving it up to you to find them and assemble them; some trigger events could be bound to specific pieces, others to combinations of pieces, yet others to the number of pieces you've discovered.

I would be most surprised if it turns out like that though. They're going after BG2, not PS:T here.

 

[Mazisky]

So they kinda spoiled we'll have a boss fight vs Eothas i guess

 

[Bonerbill]

This worries me for some reason. Not that it can't be circumvented, but it pretty much destroys any chance of character-driven story. It relegates the important events to happen in the background, with you just having to react to them, not being in the conversation, but being told what happens, or the important events have already happened and you are there as a passive problem solving machine. Both of these things were major problems in PoE1 as well. It CAN work (BG1 for example), but it's passive and it actually reduces the chance for you to "do what you want".

FFS play Fallout New Vegas already. It's the exact formula they're following here.

 

[Sizzle]

This worries me for some reason. Not that it can't be circumvented, but it pretty much destroys any chance of character-driven story. It relegates the important events to happen in the background, with you just having to react to them, not being in the conversation, but being told what happens, or the important events have already happened and you are there as a passive problem solving machine. Both of these things were major problems in PoE1 as well. It CAN work (BG1 for example), but it's passive and it actually reduces the chance for you to "do what you want".

FFS play Fallout New Vegas already. It's the exact formula they're following here.

Exactly. It's very difficult to explain the F:NV quest structure if you haven't played the game, but trust us - this is a good thing.

Besides, you really should play New Vegas regardless of this - it's a great game.

 

[Lacrymas]

I actually have it installed right now, but the hiking and gameplay kinda ruins it for me. When does it get good?

 

[undecaf]

the hiking and gameplay kinda ruins it for me

You're going to have to get used to that if you want the good bits to be actually good, otherwise the drudge will soil them.

 

[Sizzle]

I actually have it installed right now, but the hiking and gameplay kinda ruins it for me. When does it get good?

The game truly takes off when you reach New Vegas and really start interacting with the major factions.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I actually have it installed right now, but the hiking and gameplay kinda ruins it for me. When does it get good?

Try Dead Money.

 

[Colour Spray]

I think it's interesting that the Titan isn't meant to be a single boss fight. I actually liked that idea although now that i think about it, it doesn't seem very Pillars of Eternity to fight a single boss creature and not have anything else going on at the same time.

I mean, it does make the creature exceptionally easy to flank, which seems like a critical weakness for such a large, cumbersome character. Although it could've been like when they introduce new enemies in other games, early on, and the thing is really difficult to handle for your low-level characters; but then later they reintroduce the same enemy, either to display your character's growth in power or to make you groan inside that now you're gonna have to deal with that thing that gave you so much trouble last time and something else. For instance, they could do a male/female titan pair later in the game, where one enhances the others ability to fight. Having to deal with two high might, high constitution and high perception opponents with the added caveat that one can tend the others wounds, whilst the other can add to its counter-parts defenses would throw an interesting wrench into the battle and play with the player's expectations that you established earlier in the game. You would have decide where you wanted to focus your crowd-control and where to focus your direct damage and debuff abilities.

They could always do that anyway, however, or whatever they come up with on their own. I doubt they would put so much work into the titan and not attempt to re-use it as some optional content further into the game. I personally quite liked that PoE wasn't afraid to use re-coloured enemies. That way the gameplay isn't beholden to how fast the art-team can churn out assets.

I also prefer the gameplay first approach. The story should service the game, not the other way around.

 

[AW8]

Also, we have tried to make it as friendly to skipping around as you want. There are big sections of the crit path where, if you're a super smarty player, you can actually leapfrog sections of the critical path and the story adapts to it.

our "starter" dungeon is something you can actually bypass completely now. As soon as you get to your first location there's a starter dungeon. You can go into it, you can also just go around it. You're encouraged to go into it, but you don't have to.

If a designer or a writer comes here and their goal is to tell their story, I don't want them working on the project. The point of this is that it's supposed to be about the interaction between what the player wants to do and the ideas that we have. The whole of point what the area designers and writers do is to create a space in which the player has freedom to do a bunch of things that seem cool, and much like if you sit at a tabletop game and you play with a dungeon master who doesn't allow you to kill NPCs that they think are really precious, it feels bad. And it stinks. And it feels like you don't actually get to do what you want to do.

So, yes, it limits them. Too bad. That's the way that this game is setup: to, as much as we can, allow the player to have more freedom in what they do. So, yes, it's a rule; I don't care that they don't like it. Actually, I haven't found a lot of people who don't like it; it's a challenge that they have to adapt to, but it's for the benefit of the player. We're making these things for the benefit of players, not for the benefits of patting ourselves on the back and making people think we're amazing. If people don't have fun with it, it doesn't really matter.

In cases where someone can't be killed, we try to be really careful about that, and not break the rules that we've setup. For example, if a character is in a cutscene and walks off, that is okay. What is not okay is having a character that talks to you, and then you exit the conversation, and then you're either prevented from attacking them or you hit them with a fireball and they just sort of ignore it — No, no, no, no, you can't kill that character.

It is hard for us, but that's the challenge. That's what we're doing: we're trying to make this for players so that they feel — not just feel, but that they are free to do what they want to do.

King Sawyer.

 

[FreeKaner]

This last interview convinced me that Deadfire will be on a whole different level than PoE1.

 

[Krzysiek]

This worries me for some reason. Not that it can't be circumvented, but it pretty much destroys any chance of character-driven story. It relegates the important events to happen in the background, with you just having to react to them, not being in the conversation, but being told what happens, or the important events have already happened and you are there as a passive problem solving machine. Both of these things were major problems in PoE1 as well. It CAN work (BG1 for example), but it's passive and it actually reduces the chance for you to "do what you want".

That was my point when I ask that question. You can't have story with emotional impact on the level of e.g. Witcher 3 when designers have to take into consideration that player can kill Ciri, Yennefer, Bloody Baron.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I'm currently reading through the transcript. It's a bit strange, the idea that skipping content is a reward for being a super smarty player.

 

[Mazisky]

I'm currently reading through the transcript. It's a bit strange, the idea that skipping content is a reward for being a super smarty player.

Someone find fun to speed run in 0:23 mins to finish the game i guess.

 

[Azarkon]

Or, or, hear me out here, it's reaaaaalllyyy innovative and not an already-fixed problem - we do like the IE games did and tone everything down so important events can grab your attention better, also better sound design for crits and sneak attacks (something which is also totally new and mind-blowing).

There's a reason for that. In Infinity Engine games, the amount of abilities is limited, and therefore fights would never sound like a cacophony even with each spell and critical hit having a loud effect. In Pillars of Eternity every character and their pet is using special attacks every round. How do you avoid sounding like a cluster fuck? Not to mention you can't represent status effects better without spending a lot more on detailed graphics and animation, yet status effects are the most important to visually cue.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Do we have information whether the world map will feature the archipelago without any mainland, or will we have access to a stretch of mainland in one of the edges of the world map?

 

[Lacrymas]

There's a reason for that. In Infinity Engine games, the amount of abilities is limited, and therefore fights would never sound like a cacophony even with each spell and critical hit having a loud effect. In Pillars of Eternity every character and their pet is using special attacks every round. How do you avoid sounding like a cluster fuck? Not to mention you can't represent status effects better without spending a lot more on detailed graphics and animation, yet status effects are the most important to visually cue.

I'm currently playing through PoE directly coming from a BG1 playthrough (decided on holding off on BG2 so I don't remember how infinitely superior it is to PoE) and I can't see shit compared to BG1. PoE at 5th level is more of a clusterfuck than the whole of BG1. BG2 had a lot of effects and high level spells, too, but you don't have a problem differentiating them or wonder wtf is going on with your party members. PoE just needs toning down, less child-like SFX, more clarity. We don't need MORE graphics and animations, we need LESS. Slow mode should be the default speed of combat, as well (with less sluggish animations, of course).

 

[circ]

PoE 1 established some of the dumbest lore ever conceived. PoE 2 assumably follows that lore. This can never be a good game.

 

[Sizzle]

The lore was okay. It was the lackluster execution of that lore which hampered the game.

 

[Prime Junta]

PoE 1 established some of the dumbest lore ever conceived. PoE 2 assumably follows that lore. This can never be a good game.

Spoiler

With that avatar, you would know all about dumb lore...

 

[circ]

Oh my. POE internet defense force? Why can't people ever shill good games like... Galaga.

 

[AwesomeButton]

PoE 1 established some of the dumbest lore ever conceived.

I liked the lore more than the execution. Not sure if you're making a difference when you say the lore is dumb. Also, you really should change that portrait if you're going to play a lore snob.

I keep reading through the transcript - it's good they have autopausing of conversation if combat is about to start during the conversation. I wonder if they can actually make pausing during conversation a toggle in the options. I am worried that the game not pausing during dialogue could have unintended side effects such as an unrealistic amount of game time passing during a conversation.

 

[Lacrymas]

What "lore" do you (general you) like in PoE?

 

[Once more unto the Codex]

So they kinda spoiled we'll have a boss fight vs Eothas i guess

I must've missed that. What did they say?

 

[AwesomeButton]

What "lore" do you (general you) like in PoE?

The deities' descriptions are my number one. The information on the various polities is also very interesting, makes me want to explore this world.

There was much more thought put into designing those things than Obsidian were able to expose in the game, unfortunately.