Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Prime Junta]

Yeah I don't get it either. I doubt all that many people would have been butthurt if they had gone Dragon Age and just let you import a world state. Instead of the Watcher of Dyrwood you would be the Hupipupu of Humuluola, or something. Even the Sawyer would have been happy.

 

[CptMace]

well complaining about you being able to forgo save importing in favor of a questionnaire is rather silly, do you really want to play the exact same character in every subsequent playthrough

>I'm not complaining.
>I don't mind rebuilding the systems in its foundations. And I don't mind its consequence as the player can't keep his character sheet (which was what we'd all expect because ie games etc).
>I note the effect of this all, which is that the save import from poe to deadfire is ought to be the weirdest, most nonsensical save import I've ever seen.

The player has to be the watcher again because of how the first game ended. They want to build a sequel upon the watcher knowing stuff people don't know (well I assume it's gonna be an important aspect, otherwise I have no idea why we're playing the watcher again).
+ The systems are completely different. It's impossible to import the char sheet without having the player go through some steps of character building again. I assume the game will present the stats, race etc you had, and let you modify what you want to.
= A save import system which isn't about importing a character sheet (impossible) or the first game's choices (unnecessary). Come on, it's pretty damn funny.

 

[FreeKaner]

Sizzle gifted Lacrymas a beta key to undermine his sanity, hopes and dreams.

 

[Infinitron]

The complaint about having to play the same character as the first game has got to be one of the most autistic complaints about this game. It's a fundamental aspect of the game, they wanted to tell a story about the Watcher. Complaining about it is like complaining that the game isn't turn-based. You can make the argument but it's completely missing the point.

Judge how well the game continues the story of the Watcher instead of wishing they'd told another story instead.

 

[Lacrymas]

We'll see if it being the same Watcher has any bearing whatsoever on the story, which is what is important in this case, or whether they just wanted to say it's the same one.

 

[Thonius]

You can tell a story about Watcher other way. See my list of ideas how to proceed with the story without hurr durr suck your level

 

[CptMace]

We'll see if it being the same Watcher has any bearing whatsoever on the story, which is what is important in this case, or whether they just wanted to say it's the same one.

If my rather obvious speculation proves correct, which is that Thaos (if not annihilated lul) and Woedica remembering that you fucked 'em up/helped 'em out play an important part in the story, then it's important to bring the watcher along.
I'm still confident people who didn't fuck thaos' soul up, and/or who strengthened woedica for some reason, will get some cool flavor. And a temporary thaos companion would explain the woedica power level thingies we saw in some random document.
Frankly, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't something like this in the second part of the game. Or at the end, most probably.

Also, i'm pretty sure the watcher is being bamboozled by woedica and friends, this eothas thing is too obvious.

 

[Grunker]

Lacrymas is PoE2 beta equivalent of PoE beta sensuki, not as hardcore, but close. I don't get the hate, i find annoying all the consant whining but i do understand it. They both wanted something different from the game, which they think would be much better. Since its not happening, they both felt and feel frustrated because of 'wasted potential'. I mean, first game was very tedious and boring after a while for me so i can relate to some of their opinions.

You don't need to be as hardcore as Sensuki to see the trainwreck of a design this system is. Nothing in it makes sense and everything combines to make something worse, it's mind-blowing how webbed this terrible is. Just sitting down to think through it for 5 minutes is enough to realize how the ideas they've come up with don't complement each other, quite the contrary - they hinder and sabotage each other. Some aspects of it work in theory, but it requires an almost complete redesign for those aspects to work in practice. I did see potential from the beginning, but they've been moving away from the actual solutions with every beta build and now I'm just dumbfounded. Even if we move away from theory, the combat in practice just isn't engaging because it's repetitive and the different design decisions just work to frustrate you more.

There's no substance at all in this post. I'm not saying that to be polemic. Read it. It's just a list of claims - literally, the post doesn't contain a single, specific fact or tangible concept from the game. "Nothing in it makes sense" - nothing? Not a single thing? Really? You write a lot of these sorts posts, which is why the observations about street cred and so on gain credence.

Maybe if you wrote more posts about the concrete failures of the system, they would at least be worth reading?

 

[Thonius]

black powa!

Hm... she likes turn based rpg's...

 

[Pizzashoes]

I don't think the Watcher complaint is autistic (maybe that's because I'm on the spectrum). The guy's power level is reset and the guy adventures in a different setting. Those two aspects are normally enough to warrant changing the guy. But yes, it is premature to fully judge how well they will integrate the Watcher into the game. Considering how not so well they did on their first go around, I wouldn't have a ton of faith.

 

[Grunker]

They did this for three witcher games in a row without anyone complaining

 

[vonAchdorf]

They did this for three witcher games in a row without anyone complaining

It's a different genre. And I don't think the TW2 amnesia was praised.

 

[Prime Junta]

I'm sure the complaints will quiet -- most of them -- if in fact your past history is worked into the story well. More power to them if they pull it off. Even so, the Watcher of Dyrwood is no Geralt, with a rich back story, web of relationships, reputation, and what have you.

I dunno though. Starting with a new character would've given them more freedom to craft a new story, with the C&C carried over through the companions. Personally I don't really give much of a shit about it, it could work either way. It just strikes me as an unnecessary complication they gave themselves.

I guess the thing that's niggling me a little is how you can change everything about your character. You were a Pale Elf aristocrat wizard from the White that Wends, now you can be an Ocean Folk human drifter rogue from Old Vailia. The fuck's up with that?

 

[CptMace]

They did this for three witcher games in a row without anyone complaining

Mass Effect and The Witcher have preset protagonists though.
I really had a problem with ME1 to ME2 completely disregarding the end game choice, and going yup this intergalactic politics business was cool and all but here's our 90's action movie scenario but otherwise, it's arguably legit.

But here we have a save import which works like a world state import, but which is also supposed to concern the same character.
I don't think there's another save import system out there which makes it perfectly normal to have the character change his gender/name/race/job/origin. It's gonna feel so weird. With some luck, they can turn it into a meme, like the arrow to the knee or whatnot.


I mean, hear me out. Importing your save from bg1 adds little. You start with a bit more xp, with some innate abilities, maybe some items get distributed around the world (also, they're pretty useless now).
Yet its function, which is to convey a strong impression of consistency across games, is there.
MM1 to MM2 had the gates to another world, and the whole damn party would jump in the sequel, even keeping their level and making it possible to actually skip all the low level shit. Best save import ever btw.

But here, what's the save import about ? Well you get your choices, for sure. But you can just recreate a character and pick the same choices. I don't understand why it's there, really.
So i'll wait and see, but I got the feeling it's gonna be quite the meme around the lulzy internets.

edit : or for short, the post above.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

MC needed to be a watcher because otherwise they wouldn't be able to use soul reading and visions to feed the plot.

 

[Lacrymas]

There's no substance at all in this post. I'm not saying that to be polemic. Read it. It's just a list of claims - literally, the post doesn't contain a single, specific fact or tangible concept from the game. "Nothing in it makes sense" - nothing? Not a single thing? Really? You write a lot of these sorts posts, which is why the observations about street cred and so on gain credence.

Maybe if you wrote more posts about the concrete failures of the system, they would at least be worth reading?

I have posted my specific and concrete observations and criticisms multiple times, so get off your high horse.

 

[Grunker]

I'm thinking Prime Junta is right here, though, the problem isn't sticking with the Watcher, the problem is we don't care about the Watcher and sticking with him signals their effort to continue with the same style of story and the same themes.

As far as what we've seen and heard so far, even the same overabundance of "deep lore" and such.

If the complaint has merit, it's because it's really about the fear of that.

EDIT: Like IHaveHugeNick says. It's gonna be baed

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

You don't need to be as hardcore as Sensuki to see the trainwreck of a design this system is. Nothing in it makes sense and everything combines to make something worse, it's mind-blowing how webbed this terrible is. Just sitting down to think through it for 5 minutes is enough to realize how the ideas they've come up with don't complement each other, quite the contrary - they hinder and sabotage each other. Some aspects of it work in theory, but it requires an almost complete redesign for those aspects to work in practice. I did see potential from the beginning, but they've been moving away from the actual solutions with every beta build and now I'm just dumbfounded. Even if we move away from theory, the combat in practice just isn't engaging because it's repetitive and the different design decisions just work to frustrate you more.

Good, now post a negative review on the front page or didn't happen.

 

[Grunker]

There's no substance at all in this post. I'm not saying that to be polemic. Read it. It's just a list of claims - literally, the post doesn't contain a single, specific fact or tangible concept from the game. "Nothing in it makes sense" - nothing? Not a single thing? Really? You write a lot of these sorts posts, which is why the observations about street cred and so on gain credence.

Maybe if you wrote more posts about the concrete failures of the system, they would at least be worth reading?

I have posted my specific and concrete observations and criticisms multiple times

I know. I've read most.

so get off your high horse.

What high horse? Your post isn't an argument, and it's not carried by your short posts containing concrete critcisms. And you write a lot of these claiming posts without really arguing how your tidbits of criticism pertain to your overall complete and utter flunking of the game. That's all I'm saying. If you want to argue the fact that the system is completely incoherent and that literally nothing makes sense, you need to argue. Otherwise of course people are going to find it tedious.

 

[Parabalus]

I'm thinking Prime Junta is right here, though, the problem isn't sticking with the Watcher, the problem is we don't care about the Watcher and sticking with him signals their effort to continue with the same style of story and the same themes.

As far as what we've seen and heard so far, even the same overabundance of "deep lore" and such.

If the complaint has merit, it's because it's really about the fear of that.

EDIT: Like IHaveHugeNick says. It's gonna be baed

You have any numbers to back that statement up?

To me it's funny that people complain about a reset, since the fact that there is no reset Bg1->Bg2 shows just how little your character progresses in the latter until HLAs in ToB.

 

[Grunker]

Numbers? I'm talking about the people complaining here. Didn't think it was controversial that the general codex consensus even among those of us who enjoy the game is that the main story is very poorly written. You might disagree, but I wager that puts you in a very small minority.

My point is people wouldn't complain about the Watcher carry over if they actually cared about the Watcher, which is why I'm thinking PJ is right.

 

[CptMace]

You were a Pale Elf aristocrat wizard from the White that Wends, now you can be an Ocean Folk human drifter rogue from Old Vailia. The fuck's up with that?

Races, backgrounds etc don't give the same passive bonuses. And bonus to skills had to be completely changed since skills have been completely overhauled.
So it's a technical necessity. Now what's funny is that, from what I got from sawyer on the matter, it seems that we'll even be able to change the name and gender, which should be completely unrelated. I guess they realised that swapping from a dwarf to an orlan was enough of a meme to begin with, so they might as well give full control over the character (re)creation process. I assume.

 

[Grunker]

All of this and he still won't give us full control over character customization of joinable NPCs

 

[Parabalus]

Numbers? I'm talking about the people complaining here. Didn't think it was controversial that the general codex consensus even among those of us who enjoy the game is that the main story is very poorly written. You might disagree, but I wager that puts you in a very small minority.

My point is people wouldn't complain about the Watcher carry over if they actually cared about the Watcher, which is why I'm thinking PJ is right.

Hmm, I wouldn't say that the story being badly written has much bearing on whether I want the character to carry over though.

What do I care if Thaos wasn't given enough room to talk, I had too read too much MENPWGRA or w/e if I want my character who killed or befriended a few dragons to continue on? To me the issues don't seem related.

I'm sure the complaints will quiet -- most of them -- if in fact your past history is worked into the story well. More power to them if they pull it off. Even so, the Watcher of Dyrwood is no Geralt, with a rich back story, web of relationships, reputation, and what have you.

I dunno though. Starting with a new character would've given them more freedom to craft a new story, with the C&C carried over through the companions. Personally I don't really give much of a shit about it, it could work either way. It just strikes me as an unnecessary complication they gave themselves.

I guess the thing that's niggling me a little is how you can change everything about your character. You were a Pale Elf aristocrat wizard from the White that Wends, now you can be an Ocean Folk human drifter rogue from Old Vailia. The fuck's up with that?

The JES system of importing only the C&C is awkward on paper, great for gameplay (kinda like muscle wizards). Like Crag Hack said if you change the racials and don't let players change the races that's pitchfork material, e.g. Wood Elves had a ranged bonus in PoE1 and sth garbage in PoE2, being able to switch seems necessary.

It's also strictly better for subsequent playthoughs, especially if the end result will be PoE2>>>>>>>>>>PoE1 in terms of enjoyment.

In Bg2 you basically import JUST the character and no (minor) C&C, which is basically the complete opposite of what I'd want from an import.

 

[Prime Junta]

So it's a technical necessity.

Exactly. So why bother importing the character at all?

Sure, it gives something to work from for the story -- the sekrit knowledge about the gods, which ones <3 you and which ones are pissed off at you, the Watcher abilities -- but those are by no means necessary. You could invent new kewl abilities for the new protag. But they way they did it, it feels like they want to have their cake and eat it too, which just ended up weird.

But, again, if that's the worst thing that's wrong with it, it's doing pretty damn well.