Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Immortal]

If the goal was to make all the attributes valuable in different and realistic circumstances, then I feel they are alright atm, RES is no longer a dump stat outside of very specific gimmick builds. If the goal was to make them valuable in ALL circumstances, then lol, dream on.

The biggest criticism has been the homogeneity of all classes and how stats tried to cater to every situation / build.
Feels like you are preaching to the choir..

 

[rusty_shackleford]

eta for PoE2 3.0?

 

[Riddler]

eta for PoE2 3.0?

Christmas 2019?

 

[Haplo]

Don't forget the possible deterministic Overpenetration damage bonus. Itz powergaming heavan!

Didn't he just say that they're raising penetration for lower pen weapons/spells, or did I read the latest update wrong?

"* Weapons have been unified into two major categories: Average Penetration and High Penetration. Damaging spells have largely been moved up into Average Penetration values if they weren’t already. “Best of” weapons have 1 point lower Penetration than single damage type weapons, e.g. a sabre at 7 Slash and a sword at 6/6 Slash/Pierce. Damage values on weapons have generally come down a bit, especially on weapons that were previously in the Low Pen category."

They should get rid of the penetration mechanic entirely IMO. Enemies having Damage Reduction + % based Damage Resistance/Immunity is fine. It's like armor used to work in Fallouts. Also similar to DnD 3.0 NWN system (although there armors had no DR/Resist and the monster/spell DR part can be pierced with +5 weapons typically). Just need to add variation and balance the values and you don't need any penetration mechanic whatsoever. Just different physical+elemental damage types varying in effectiveness vs different enemies and armor types.

 

[Kruno]

I hope my 30 intelligence fighter is viable. I will reduce his stats everywhere as possible and only put points into Int. I am sure he will be able to take on 30 enemies simultaneously.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I like it that Josh tried to give meaning to every attribute but I don't like how this induces players to go for gaming the system... of which the effect isn't all that notable anyway.

 

[Haplo]

I hope my 30 intelligence fighter is viable. I will reduce his stats everywhere as possible and only put points into Int. I am sure he will be able to take on 30 enemies simultaneously.

Yes, it would work marvelously. But you need to multiclass your Fighter to Barbarian for his Carnage ability to reach that.

 

[Parabalus]

Why would that be the goal for any designer ? All stats valuable at all time, with equal importance, why bother having stats ?

The "problem" in PoE1 is that if you're ranged you can dump RES to 3 (and CON) without a care since those don't matter much, this would "fix" RES in that regard since it also dictates offensive output (making CON the odd one out).

I like it that Josh tried to give meaning to every attribute but I don't like how this induces players to go for gaming the system... of which the effect isn't all that notable anyway.

If the effect of PoE attributes isn't notable, then the effect of IE attributes also isn't notable, since PoE's are more impactful, both per point and in total.

Don't forget the possible deterministic Overpenetration damage bonus. Itz powergaming heavan!

Didn't he just say that they're raising penetration for lower pen weapons/spells, or did I read the latest update wrong?

"* Weapons have been unified into two major categories: Average Penetration and High Penetration. Damaging spells have largely been moved up into Average Penetration values if they weren’t already. “Best of” weapons have 1 point lower Penetration than single damage type weapons, e.g. a sabre at 7 Slash and a sword at 6/6 Slash/Pierce. Damage values on weapons have generally come down a bit, especially on weapons that were previously in the Low Pen category."

They should get rid of the penetration mechanic entirely IMO. Enemies having Damage Reduction + % based Damage Resistance/Immunity is fine. It's like armor used to work in Fallouts. Also similar to DnD 3.0 NWN system (although there armors had no DR/Resist and the monster/spell DR part can be pierced with +5 weapons typically). Just need to add variation and balance the values and you don't need any penetration mechanic whatsoever. Just different physical+elemental damage types varying in effectiveness vs different enemies and armor types.

I too think that would have been enough, the DR system only breaks down at extremes, and it's obvious they don't give more than a cursory look at PotD.

 

[axedice]

Just saw this chart for buffs and debuffs. Guess it's still relevant.

So my assumptions and questions :

I don't have the beta but from what I've read cipher's eyestrike ability gives an AoE T3 debuff (blind), whispers of treason give T2 debuff (charmed) etc and you can remove the debuffs with a counterbuff regardless of tier (dominated can be removed with a smart buff). Also resistance perks (and racials) decrease the level of the debuff by one, so an enemy with lots of resistance feats (dragons and similar bossses maybe) will never be hard CC'ed.

Is there any way to overcome this, maybe through empowers? Also is it possible to empower low-tier buffs and debuffs? And is it possible to CC the beta boss?

 

[Infinitron]

axedice Oh, that's interesting. Thanks for posting. Where'd you find it?

It's funny that some Afflictions have themselves in their effects. "Blind - Effect: Blinded". (Also, Immunity to Gaze? Interesting)

Unless I'm missing something, it seems that Defense reduction is no longer the primary purpose of Afflictions, unlike in PoE1. Instead they have various other, more unique effects. Grognards should like this.

 

[Infinitron]

More on the stat debate: https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...=17931&perpage=40&pagenumber=11#post481693644

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Grognards should like this.

I can confirm that this is a positive improvement to me. Simple defense reductions are boring and lead to obvious ways to cheese them.

 

[axedice]

Infinitron posted here by maxquest. That guy knows his numbers

 

[Haplo]

axedice Oh, that's interesting. Thanks for posting. Where'd you find it?

It's funny that some Afflictions have themselves in their effects. "Blind - Effect: Blinded". (Also, Immunity to Gaze? Interesting)

Unless I'm missing something, it seems like Defense reduction is no longer the primary purpose of Afflictions, unlike in PoE1. Instead they have various other, more unique effects. Grognards should like this.

I won't be able to convert 90% of my hits to crits anymore?

 

[Cross]

axedice Oh, that's interesting. Thanks for posting. Where'd you find it?

It's funny that some Afflictions have themselves in their effects. "Blind - Effect: Blinded". (Also, Immunity to Gaze? Interesting)

Unless I'm missing something, it seems like Defense reduction is no longer the primary purpose of Afflictions, unlike in PoE1. Instead they have various other, more unique effects. Grognards should like this.

In other words, Sawyer has finally realized the error of his ways and is making the status effects more like those in the D&D games he so despises (e.g. being frightened now causes you to flee in panic, rather than just having a minor penalty to accuracy like it did in PoE). That chart still looks needlessly bloated, with most status changes producing only minor effects, but it seems to be an improvement over PoE's system.

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Frightened

A frightened creature flees from the source of its fear as best it can. If unable to flee, it may fight. A frightened creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.

You can't flee in PoE so actually it made sense.

 

[CptMace]

axedice Oh, that's interesting. Thanks for posting. Where'd you find it?

It's funny that some Afflictions have themselves in their effects. "Blind - Effect: Blinded". (Also, Immunity to Gaze? Interesting)

Unless I'm missing something, it seems like Defense reduction is no longer the primary purpose of Afflictions, unlike in PoE1. Instead they have various other, more unique effects. Grognards should like this.

I think it's a much welcome change. I appreciate that fear finally makes characters flee at higher levels.
Also, Immunity to engagement, Cannot be interrupted, oh boy oh boy... will we meet enemies which are in this state for most of a fight, making counters more impactful ? Sure looks like it there.
I have a feeling that this opens the way for cool encounters, let's hope they don't chicken out at the perspective of asking the casual to actually think.
I really like that afflictions and inspirations are tied to stats in a logical way as well. Makes for much more instinctive reading of the game. The first one had notoriously confusing stuff like Frightened (-2 DEX, -2 RES, -10 ACC) which forced the player to go and check what attributes do in order to really understand what the fuck was going on. Now it's crystal clear, he's frightened so his resolve is fucked, also he's fleeing.

 

[Anthedon]

Intentionally blinding some members of your party to fight enemies with a gaze attack sounds neat. Is there a new spell in the beta that confers immunity to gaze?

 

[Lacrymas]

Or they can, you know, just close their eyes. I guess we'll see some basilisk or medusa type enemies, which is cool. I still don't like the idea that even basic inspirations can remove T3 afflictions and vice versa, especially depending on how hard it is to get the T3s rolling (feels like I'm talking about Age of Wonders, lol).

 

[Maculo]

Interesting graph, I wonder which classes will have Resolve Debuffs. It would be interesting if you could terror rout enemies.

 

[Infinitron]

I think it's a much welcome change. I appreciate that fear finally makes characters flee at higher levels.
Also, Immunity to engagement, Cannot be interrupted, oh boy oh boy... will we meet enemies which are in this state for most of a fight, making counters more impactful ? Sure looks like it there.
I have a feeling that this opens the way for cool encounters, let's hope they don't chicken out at the perspective of asking the casual to actually think.
I really like that afflictions and inspirations are tied to stats in a logical way as well. Makes for much more instinctive reading of the game. The first one had notoriously confusing stuff like Frightened (-2 DEX, -2 RES, -10 ACC) which forced the player to go and check what attributes do in order to really understand what the fuck was going on. Now it's crystal clear, he's frightened so his resolve is fucked, also he's fleeing.

Note that you do still get to reduce Defense scores by way of the Attribute debuffs (-5 Resolve == -10 Will). That's minor compared to PoE1's crazy -20 and -40 Afflictions though.

 

[axedice]

Something else I read on backer beta forum,

Berserker's Frenzy gives you two tier-2 inspirations instead of two tier-1: Tenacious & Hardy instead of Strong & Fit.

That's +2 Armor and +2 Penetration on top of 5 str and con which is very neat. But berserker frenzy also gives you the T1 int debuff (confused, attacks such as carnage hit friend & foe). Now if you multiclass to paladin and pick the Intellect resist feat (only available to paladin among martial classes, you can pick priest etc. aswell), then you have a confuse-free berserk since you'll be immune to confuse.

While the potential for such combinations is great, enemies with lots of resistances will be a chore to deal with.

 

[Haplo]

Interesting graph, I wonder which classes will have Resolve Debuffs. It would be interesting if you could terror rout enemies.

Well, Cipher and Wizard are almost a given. They already had fear-type spells in PoE1. But Chanter and Priest are not out of the question either.

 

[AwesomeButton]

These affliction effects look interesting on paper. Let's see how they will feel in the game.

 

[Maculo]

Well, Cipher and Wizard are almost a given. They already had fear-type spells in PoE1. But Chanter and Priest are not out of the question either.

Cipher came to mind, but I want to test this once I get a chance. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of what high-tier afflictions we encounter on the beta other than paralyze.

Edit: I hate the idea of random empower/depower on Resolve. Either empower/depower occurs enough to be significant, or it doesn't. I idea I liked the most was for Resolve to interact with inspiration/afflictions in some manner. For example, 10-20 Resolve increases duration and/or benefit of inspirations, whereas 1-9 increases the duration and/or penalty of afflictions. I think that alone would make it less of a dump stat for both caster and martial classes.