Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Duraframe300]

http://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/95922370856/if-you-were-to-make-an-ars-magica-crpg-how-would-you

I think if you turn the dial to 11 on a simulationist game, it can be very cool — even if magic is also involved.

 

[Infinitron]

The whole argument for "banalce" previously was ... Well, I never really understood it, but it had something to do with warriors shouldn't need to be strong, dextrous and tough and mages shouldn't need to be intelligent, etc.

But a non-strong warrior still needs to be played to his strengths (heh). Same for a non-intelligent mage.

All of the whining against D&D could have been brushed aside with "Game balance has nothing to do with playing the game poorly.".

Only if you count character creation as gameplay. Pillars of Eternity doesn't.

 

[Shannow]

A signed by Sawyer boxed copy of He-Man RPG for every grognard that actually understands the "dialed to 11" reference.

 

[Shannow]

The whole argument for "banalce" previously was ... Well, I never really understood it, but it had something to do with warriors shouldn't need to be strong, dextrous and tough and mages shouldn't need to be intelligent, etc.

But a non-strong warrior still needs to be played to his strengths (heh). Same for a non-intelligent mage.

All of the whining against D&D could have been brushed aside with "Game balance has nothing to do with playing the game poorly.".

Only if you count character creation as gameplay. Pillars of Eternity doesn't.

So the same as in D&D? (Unintelligent mage obviously being a sorceror.)

If you don't play to your character's strength then of course you'll fail. Balance just means that he HAS a a strength.

Decide. Either character creation/development is not a gameplay feature and I can't gimp my character or I need to play to my character's/class's strengths. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Infinitron]

The whole argument for "banalce" previously was ... Well, I never really understood it, but it had something to do with warriors shouldn't need to be strong, dextrous and tough and mages shouldn't need to be intelligent, etc.

But a non-strong warrior still needs to be played to his strengths (heh). Same for a non-intelligent mage.

All of the whining against D&D could have been brushed aside with "Game balance has nothing to do with playing the game poorly.".

Only if you count character creation as gameplay. Pillars of Eternity doesn't.

So the same as in D&D? (Unintelligent mage obviously being a sorceror.)

If you don't play to your character's strength then of course you'll fail. Balance just means that he HAS a a strength.

Decide. Either character creation/development is not a gameplay feature and I can't gimp my character or I need to play to my character's/class's strengths. You can't have it both ways.

Are you still trolling? Character creation isn't gameplay. Tactical combat is gameplay. If you play tactical combat incorrectly, you will fail. But you can't fail at character creation - your character will always be good at something. Well, unless you refuse to use your attribute points.

 

[roshan]

Only if you count character creation as gameplay. Pillars of Eternity doesn't.

Can someone explain to me when character creation stopped being a part of RPGs? Next thing we hear is that role playing isn't playing either.

 

[Rake]

Only if you count character creation as gameplay. Pillars of Eternity doesn't.

Can someone explain to me when character creation stopped being a part of RPGs? Next thing we hear is that role playing isn't playing either.

When Sawyer said so. His game, his rules

 

[Shannow]

Now that's an actual argument. One that I don't support, but finally can understand. PoE wants to provide a system where - no matter what stats you choose - your character will always be good at something (if played correctly).
(I still prefer stats making sense to the role you're playing (eg. Mike Tyson, Obama, Shakira, Hawkings, etc.), but I finally understand the thought process behind banacle.) Thanks, Infi.

 

[Infinitron]

No problem.

Now, the beta's current problem is that it feels like your character is always good at everything. That's what people mean when they say that the attributes don't have an impact. I wonder if the next version of the beta will already address this.

 

[clemens]

http://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/95922370856/if-you-were-to-make-an-ars-magica-crpg-how-would-you

I think if you turn the dial to 11 on a simulationist game, it can be very cool — even if magic is also involved.

Can people please stop talking about an hypothetical and very unlikely to happen Ars Magica crpg ? I'm slowly dying inside...

 

[Osvir]

he provides very informed and objective content. Mostly.

lol no u

I think we need a TB fanboy tag

I'm a fan of his content. yes, but not the dude himself John Bain the dude is just a dude that says stupid shit on twitter from time to time, and some times cool shit. His content is very informed, well researched. Sometimes I disagree. One of TB's favorite games are Giants: Citizen Kabuto btw. Not to forget to mention his GoG Top Rated Strategy games that got many of the classics in it. Mostly Strategy though... hm.. and this is.. RPG Codex... kk.

Just like Pillars of Eternity, "Sawyerism" wtf? The dude is a regular dude, Sensuki is a regular dude, I'm a regular dude. You're probably a regular dude too Harold. Volo is a pretty princess. I'm a fan of the community and the entire project

 

[felipepepe]

I've been thinking about the skills... there are 5 skills, and 6 party members... what's stopping you from specialize each character in one, and still have a all-arounder? You definitely don't need two characters with Lore or Mechanics skills.

What's the use of locked doors in this context? Won't they simply become level-gates?

 

[tuluse]

I've been thinking about the skills... there are 5 skills, and 6 party members... what's stopping you from specialize each character in one, and still have a all-arounder? You definitely don't need two characters with Lore or Mechanics skills.

What's the use of locked doors in this context? Won't they simply become level-gates?

Each skill is supposed to provide a systemic benefit, but I'm not seeing it either.

Remember lock picking in PoE means using more or fewer lock picks, Dues Ex style. So there is a resource drain for going through them. I'm pretty sure it's bugged right now though, so it doesn't make sense what's happening.

 

[Sensuki]

There was 6 skills, Crafting as a skill was cut.

 

[Infinitron]

It's not like there was ever any real question about lugging around a Thief with you in BG, so it was pretty much a "level gate" there too.

Things would have been more interesting if there were more skills, but eh, not a high priority.

 

[Rake]

I've been thinking about the skills... there are 5 skills, and 6 party members... what's stopping you from specialize each character in one, and still have a all-arounder? You definitely don't need two characters with Lore or Mechanics skills.

What's the use of locked doors in this context? Won't they simply become level-gates?

In many scripted interactions,and in most dialogue, only your PC skills will count, so there is that.

 

[Athelas]

IIRC you can only have one trap active at a time per character, so more mechanic-skilled chars means more trapping potential.

More lore-skilled chars makes the bestiary fill up faster, I guess? (Which likely appeals to everyone's inner OCD freak.)

~BALANCE~

 

[felipepepe]

It's not like there was ever any real question about lugging around a Thief with you in BG, so it was pretty much a "level gate" there too.

Yeah, except that Thieves had seven skills:

Find/Disarm traps
Hide in Shadow/Move Silently
Pick Locks
Pick Pockets
Set Traps
Detect Illusion
Backstabbing

Not all of them had the same relevance, but at the very least you would split your points between Pick Lock and Find/Disarm Trap, so your Thief build did matter a lot.

In many scripted interactions,and in most dialogue, only your PC skills will count, so there is that.

Now that's a shitty workaround, eh?

 

[Athelas]

Every scripted interaction I've come across so far allows using the skills of all party members.

 

[Infinitron]

(I should have said "it's not like there was ever any real question about lugging around a Thief trained in Pick Locks with you in BG". )

 

[Mastermind]

Most of the skills are useful to all characters so I don't really understand the bitching.

 

[Mystary!]

Sensuki, You mention in your video, and earlier in this thread, that the adventuring days are limited by the health of the main tank.
But in IE, when you ran out of health and healing recources, you could just switch some gear around and make another character the "main tank" for a while, effectively prolonging the day. Wouldn't that work here aswell?

 

[felipepepe]

(I should have said "it's not like there was ever any real question about lugging around a Thief trained in Pick Locks with you in BG". )

You shouldn't be smug about saying dumb things. In BG you get around 25 points per level up to split between each skill. Invest all in Pick Lock, and you won't be able to Steal or Detect/Disarm Traps, but you'll be able to open harder doors.

PoE's skill choice is between opening doors to reaching more content/loot or some minor passive bonus. That's a fucking no-brainer.

 

[Infinitron]

(I should have said "it's not like there was ever any real question about lugging around a Thief trained in Pick Locks with you in BG". )

You shouldn't be smug about saying dumb things. You get around 25 points per level up to split between each skill. Invest all in Pick Lock, and you won't be able to Steal or Detect/Disarm Traps, but you'll be able to open harder doors.

I didn't say JUST Pick Locks.

 

[Once more unto the Codex]

Sensuki, You mention in your video, and earlier in this thread, that the adventuring days are limited by the health of the main tank.
But in IE, when you ran out of health and healing recources, you could just switch some gear around and make another character the "main tank" for a while, effectively prolonging the day. Wouldn't that work here aswell?

If you have a paladin or monk (or maybe a barbarian) in the party as well then, theoretically, yes. However, I do agree with Sensuki that the adventuring day should be lengthened.