Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[SCO]

Correct. If you want to be professional and effective, you should tone it down, otherwise, you're just another Cleve in the minds of the recipients (and we all know how that went).
Politeness is underrated.

 

[Sensuki]

I'll make a concerted effort to use less um and ah and less barbed phrases in my next video (whenever that will be) and see how that goes. Usually I just talk like I would to one of my friends.

 

[Infinitron]

what a strange ad-plant http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69...backer-beta-version-review-v301-bb/?p=1525011

 

[Sensuki]

I had a bit of a chuckle at that myself

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

what a strange ad-plant http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69...backer-beta-version-review-v301-bb/?p=1525011

'Elevator music". Top trolling. Also had to laugh at the idea of Obsidian having a time clock where employees punch in. Like a Bangladeshi sweatshop but with more fedoras.

 

[Grunker]

 

[Duraframe300]

Sensuki
You should be hired as a consultant for P:E. Cause you sure seem to have a much better grasp of what the IE games consist of than Obsidian.

Yeah, cause that's gonna happen.

When you tell people (or imply through polite criticism) that they're shit (or simply could do better), they will fucking hate you for it, especially if you become somewhat popular on the forums and everyone's siding with you, not with them.

Nobody can take criticism, especially when they're supposed to know what they're doing cause they're "professionals" and then some guy from the street casually walks in and tells them that they've done a shitty job. I'm sure they're doing as much ignoring of Sensuki's videos as possible without looking like complete assholes to the general public. They certainly don't go "fuck YEAH, another sensuki video, let's fire up this baby and see what he came up with!"...

Agree with that nobody truly likes critisism (by random people especially) and that taking critisism in the first place is a hard thing to do. That said people certainly can *take* critisism. It is something you need to survive after all. Otherwise you are not going last long anywhere (Except if you somehow manage to land in a environment where everyone criclejerks)

I'm sure thats what you meant though and I'm just interpreting a bit too far.

The discussion is a bit useless though (IMO). Sensuki is not the most obnoxious and/or aggressive internet persona Obsidian/Black Isle has ever faced. I actually would say he's still very polite comparativly.

 

[Hormalakh]

Sensuki, there might be a lot of criticisms to make, but if nobody is willing to listen, then your criticisms fall on deaf ears.

devs are your audience. some backers have much more time to watch your videos, but devs might not.

tl;dr.
brevity is the soul of wit. videos are too long.

 

[Sensuki]

Shorter videos would require editing, which would require significantly increased amounts of effort on my part. I've only ever used iMovie and Windows Movie Maker, so using something like Sony Vegas would require me to learn how to use it.

The videos are long because there are a lot of things in them at once. Aside from chopping up the video, making them shorter would require me to A) make lots of short videos or B) Not bother to mention stuff. Dunno why people just can't use the fucking pause button ... and youtube remembers where you were up to in a video when you close it.

This time I also provided my notes in the post on the Obs boards, so if the devs don't have time to watch the video, they can read the notes if they want.

I'm fairly sure they watch them. A bunch of the small improvements in the last patch were from things I mentioned deep into my v278 version review. Not the obvious stuff, but stuff like the animation blending from run to attack, the greying out of portraits, the one pixel gap around the portrait HUD, scaling of icons, female breastplate proportions ...

Maybe they were already aware of them, maybe it was my feedback that made me aware of them / contributed to them changing/fixing them - I am not sure.

 

[tuluse]

But Obsidian is changing the game based on the criticism they're receiving so....

 

[Sensuki]

tuluse who are you talking to ?

 

[tuluse]

I don't know anymore. People saying that Obsidian and Josh can't take criticism I suppose.

 

[Sensuki]

That wasn't what the discussion was about, it was about what they think of me and the manner in which I convey my criticism.

Even I think that it probably ranges somewhere between not good to sufferable, as I don't do it in the most politically correct way.

 

[Hormalakh]

it's pretty "obnoxious" of you to expect devs to cater to you when getting feedback. Believe it or not, there are more posters than just you that they listen to (josh and gfted1 for example). if you think one dev spending an hour or more just listening to a single player's singular feedback (while hundreds other are also posting) is beneficial or in any way more valuable than spending that time developing icons/QA reports/enemies/programming, you're mistaken.

but do with my comments what you will; if you want them to listen to you, you should be spending that time making it easy for them to quickly identify the problems. if they have to wade through piles of information/video, you're wasting your time. ur comments are obviously points that some - or many - other players agree with; it would be a waste to let them go unheard because of ineffective presentation.

as for something tangible to take away, maybe you should outline what you want to say before you do, think it through then just record that stuff. making three or four points that they accept and use is better than making 1000 points and then they only use 3-4.

tl;dr. your presentation is rubbish. don't be obnoxious. get your shit straight and then upload that. otherwise, it's disgusting. ;P

 

[Sensuki]

Hormalakh I honestly don't know how you got that impression, I wasn't the one who started this conversation either, it was Chaotic_Heretic followed by Bester. I fully repped your Inventory Design in my last video too.

My presentation is pretty rubbish, as I'm using a shit microphone and I'm just using a record everything at once type setup that was 'designed' for bug reporting and quick videos.

You're not being very constructive though other than saying "don't make long videos", if you wanted to convey the amount of information that I have best to the developers, how would you do it ?

 

[Hormalakh]

Hormalakh I honestly don't know how you got that impression, I wasn't the one who started this conversation either, it was Chaotic_Heretic followed by Bester. I fully repped your Inventory Design in my last video too.

bro, i don't mean offense at all. i want your voice to be heard. that's why I'm even making these comments. I think if you are concise, they'll watch your stuff and read it more often. if you need help editing and all that, i'm sure we can find someone to help you out. hell, i'm willing to even help you with images. most of that inventory stuff i did came straight from your original inventory UI becuz you made extremely good points. i just took it and made it a little easier for the devs to follow.

as for your "political correctness"; josh doesn't give a shit about that stuff. he'll read well-written and thoughtful comments regardless of how they're written.

 

[Hormalakh]

You're not being very constructive though other than saying "don't make long videos", if you wanted to convey the amount of information that I have best to the developers, how would you do it ?

let me watch your video (at least part one) and I'll give you feedback via PM. as soon as i saw it was 4 videos that ran approx an hour, i didn't even continue. i'm sure i'm not the only one. i ended up just reading the written document.

 

[Sensuki]

What I meant was I don't expect devs to cater to me when I give feedback. I have pointed out multiple times that the moment they acknowledge my feedback specifically that is death to the open discussion as it discourages people from providing their input.

FWIW my last version review was an 80 minute long video, so it's one step in the right direction from the last one ;P

Unfortunately at the moment due to not having an income, I can't really afford to invest in a better microphone.

My 301 review isn't as good as my v278 review I don't think. The only thing that's better about it is that it's split into four parts and the music is at a better volume. I recorded it after doing an all nighter to complete my Let's Play Icewind Dale, so my speaking is a lot less fluent than my previous one.

let me watch your video (at least part one) and I'll give you feedback via PM. as soon as i saw it was 4 videos that ran approx an hour, i didn't even continue. i'm sure i'm not the only one. i ended up just reading the written document.

That would be appreciated, although part 1 doesn't have feedback, it's a review of the beta - try part 2 instead

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Yeah you sounded like you were getting a Blowjob when on video with your umms and aahs.

 

[Grotesque]

What I meant was I don't expect devs to cater to me when I give feedback. I have pointed out multiple times that the moment they acknowledge my feedback specifically that is death to the open discussion as it discourages people from providing their input.

FWIW my last version review was an 80 minute long video, so it's one step in the right direction from the last one ;P

Unfortunately at the moment due to not having an income, I can't really afford to invest in a better microphone.

My 301 review isn't as good as my v278 review I don't think. The only thing that's better about it is that it's split into four parts and the music is at a better volume. I recorded it after doing an all nighter to complete my Let's Play Icewind Dale, so my speaking is a lot less fluent than my previous one.

let me watch your video (at least part one) and I'll give you feedback via PM. as soon as i saw it was 4 videos that ran approx an hour, i didn't even continue. i'm sure i'm not the only one. i ended up just reading the written document.

That would be appreciated, although part 1 doesn't have feedback, it's a review of the beta - try part 2 instead

Why do you insist on thinking that the microphone is the problem with your videos?

In my opinion, problems:

- language (using terms like horrible, horrendous etc. etc. etc. is kind of stupid, if you hope devs will listen to you and not get butthurt because of your lack of diplomacy. If you don't hope to be listened by them, than use your time for something else because the point of the videos becomes null)
- videos too long (its better to make 4 videos instead of one)
- all videos depict the same fuckin' main menu screen (It would be advisable to reinforce your points with pictures or short clips depicting the problem.)
- condense the information given is short, concise phrases
- begin the video with a summary (TL;DR type) and insert some time stamps to be able to jump to a particular subject

Yeah... the microphpne is the problem

 

[Sensuki]

Grotesque I didn't insist that the microphone is a problem. I was just saying that as far as production quality goes I can't really afford to spend any money to make it better.

What I'm thinking of doing for the next one is using video editing software, making a video first with all of the points in short clips highlighting all the points I make and then narrating over the top. That would probably allow me to condense everything a bit better.

Hormalakh PM'd me with some similar suggestions - TL;DR version and then more detailed videos for those that can be fucked watching them.

 

[agris]

The problem isn't the production quality, it's the lack of editing and loose presentation. Like grotesque said, putting a summary or listing the problem items and showing a short clip of the problematic behavior would dramatically reduce the video time. If your videos were ~5 minutes instead of 20+, they would have a much larger impact.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Sensuki Don't listen to the haters! you shitting on Obsidian is the ebst thing to occur out of this RTwP scam.

 

[Sensuki]

I'll dabble a bit in Sony Vegas and see what I can come up with for the next one.

 

[Jaesun]

The problem isn't the production quality, it's the lack of editing and loose presentation. Like grotesque said, putting a summary or listing the problem items and showing a short clip of the problematic behavior would dramatically reduce the video time. If your videos were ~5 minutes instead of 20+, they would have a much larger impact.

This.