Chaotic_Heretic
Arcane
But its still the aspie control freak of a designer who decides what should be awarded xp, rather than a more systemic approach.
i don't get your point. even in more systematic approaches the designers decide how fast they want the player to develop and limit xp by limiting the number of encounters, deciding that certain kinds of enemies do not give any xp (stuff you overleveled severely or stuff that respawns infinitely are two common examples) and whatnot, otherwise the system becomes so prone to abuse that it loses all its fun.But its still the aspie control freak of a designer who decides what should be awarded xp, rather than a more systemic approach.
i don't get your point. even in more systematic approaches the designers decide how fast they want the player to develop and limit xp by limiting the number of encounters, deciding that certain kinds of enemies do not give any xp (stuff you overleveled severely or stuff that respawns infinitely are two common examples) and whatnot, otherwise the system becomes so prone to abuse that it loses all its fun.
You realize you're quoting me. And out of context, I might add. I'm just not sure if the strawman you are building by doing so, is on purpose or if you're doing it subconscously (flavoured by your preconsceptions and lazy reading). *shrug*Making non-casters play like casters
The fighter in PoE plays little like the "casters".
The strawman that some people want to play "boring" classes is really childish.
You realize you're basically quoting Josh here, right?
This is a good analogy. I think part of the problem is that combat is right now a bit messy and the game doesn't seem to offer alternate ways to avoid it entirely. Factor in also exploration (something in P&P is difficult to create, you cannot simply tell your GM "screw the story: we've decided to roam in the forest collecting ingredients and honing a bit our skills fighting wildlife") and you'll get an idea why the game does't seem to reward the player's initiative.That actually sounds a lot like my GMing. People don't want to be told "ok, you killed the goblins, you get 5 xp". They just want me to tell them every couple of sessions "ok, you gain a level, have your new sheets ready when we play again in 2 weeks". The thing is that I still give the players the illusion that I'm tallying up their experience from encounters and solving plots, even if I've already decided ahead of time that at key points in the narrative I just give them a level. The problem with PoE is that it explicitly tells you you get NOTHING for a combat instead of making you think it's factored into the rewards you get after quest completion.
hurray for tedious work.
This is a good analogy.That actually sounds a lot like my GMing. People don't want to be told "ok, you killed the goblins, you get 5 xp". They just want me to tell them every couple of sessions "ok, you gain a level, have your new sheets ready when we play again in 2 weeks". The thing is that I still give the players the illusion that I'm tallying up their experience from encounters and solving plots, even if I've already decided ahead of time that at key points in the narrative I just give them a level. The problem with PoE is that it explicitly tells you you get NOTHING for a combat instead of making you think it's factored into the rewards you get after quest completion.
I would hate playing in a game where my GM gave me "the illusion of something."
I would hate playing in a game where my GM gave me "the illusion of something."
I give my players the illusion of being adventureres in a fantasy world who go on quests and fight the forces of evil (or good in some cases).
I only dole out XP on the basis of roleplay and plot points reached. I just never explicitly tell them they don't get any XP for combat. It's all factored into the "you get a level" reward they get for reaching certain plot points.
I tried doling out XP on an encounter by encounter basis and making players track it. Everyone hated the extra bookkeeping.
I still give the players the illusion that I'm tallying up their experience from encounters and solving plots, even if I've already decided ahead of time that at key points in the narrative I just give them a level.
This is a good analogy.
you cannot simply tell your GM "screw the story: we've decided to roam in the forest collecting ingredients and honing a bit our skills fighting wildlife"
Dude, he was even talking about experience per chapter of story or some such.
You never played with a GM that hated you with passionThis is a good analogy.
It isn't. In PnP you don't come across trash mobs every minute.
if you think xp is the only thing keeping combat from being "tedious work", you might want to stop playing combat-centric rpgs
The only person who ever talked about that was me.
He used bad examples, these certainly are the same shit:
Per-rest spells are supposed to become per-encounter and eventually at-will as you gain levels. I assume it hasn't been changed.A tiny difference that could be eliminated by making spells scale with spellcaster's level, like in BG... Sawyer's approach means all your low level spells will be worthless in end-game, hurray.
More like: Reflected Image, Mirror Image and Blur.Wizard's Double = Mirror Image
Mirrored Image = Mislead
Llengrath's Displaced Image = Blur
wtf are you? a nextgen consoletard who needs his achievement popups as validation for what he just did being awesome, or a codexer supposedly liking challenge in itself and laughing about instat gratification idiots? 'cos whining about no xp from combat sounds a lot like the latter to me.Yeah, see if there's any fun being forced into fights that give ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
it allows much better control over power progression and thus easier fitting of difficulty to the power range of the players at any given moment, and prevents being able to trivialize content by farming something and overlevelling severely, and technically also would allow proper rpgaming since the way you bypass, but the problem with poe is that it's mostly about combat without proper alternatives.But hurrrrrrrrrr it totally balances teh systams which is good because nobody can say why.
that has nothing to do with xp, however, but rather with class based systems (which imo are all shitty) and build difference (which in poe hardly matters beyond skills). so in short, some aspects of what he did are lazy, sure, but not everything is bad, and goal-based xp is not among the bad things.And the point is that there's different types of control. Sawyer's is the lazy, shitty one where he basically forces your character into what he wants to. Dude, he was even talking about experience per chapter of story or some such. Instead of you creating the character, Sawyer is doing it for you.