Game News Pete posts about previous interviews

[ichpokhudezh]

Well, the approximation i see is due to how rounds are handled. KoTOR's use of automated pauses can enable a pause at the beginning of every round, which is basically how PB operates, followed by executing all turns automatically, albeit one by one. KoTOR, OTOH executes them simultaneously, which is different, no doubt, but i believe its an approach to PB.

'autopausing' between rounds does not make KotOR anywhere similar to PB. But, if you stretch it a bit, drop autopause, and use the 'queue' functionality, something like this will surface:
pause - plan/assign up to 4 commands - watch it resolve - pause -....
This might somewhat resemlbe simultaneous phase-based combat. Note that 'resolve' phase can actually span several actual game rounds.

 

[Mr. Teatime]

All FO discussion has been banned on Bethsoft's forums. I think it's because I mentioned FOPOS and how they banned all discussion of it on the IPLY forums:

CLICK ME, FOR UBB LINKS FUCK UP THE TABLE WIDTH

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

All FO discussion has been banned on Bethsoft's forums. I think it's because I mentioned FOPOS and how they banned all discussion of it on the IPLY forums

No, its because certain people have a tendency to ruin everything for everyone by being egotistical pricks who think playing Gestapo is a cool thing.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

'autopausing' between rounds does not make KotOR anywhere similar to PB.

Unless we're going off on another case of "my semantics is better than yours", i maintain my point of view regarding proper use of the term similar, and its meaning.

But, if you stretch it a bit, drop autopause, and use the 'queue' functionality, something like this will surface:
pause - plan/assign up to 4 commands - watch it resolve - pause -....

And those would make it much more similar.

 

[Mr. Teatime]

All FO discussion has been banned on Bethsoft's forums. I think it's because I mentioned FOPOS and how they banned all discussion of it on the IPLY forums

No, its because certain people have a tendency to ruin everything for everyone by being egotistical pricks who think playing Gestapo is a cool thing.

Cool. I guess banning me, if I was the problem, would have been too complex for the admins there.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

and I doubt she has six-hundred and three posts of shit on a message board.

Your just jealous cause your in second place lol


Well like Brios says, i'm sorry VD. I was just joking and poking.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Cool. I guess banning me, if I was the problem, would have been too complex for the admins there.

Banning whoever was being considered the harmful element doesn't stop the problem, because obviously, people can keep re-registering under different aliases.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Well like Brios says, i'm sorry VD. I was just joking and poking.

That's RP, asswipe. :twisted:

 

[Mr. Teatime]

Cool. I guess banning me, if I was the problem, would have been too complex for the admins there.

Banning whoever was being considered the harmful element doesn't stop the problem, because obviously, people can keep re-registering under different aliases.

Because, locking down the forum before even issuing a ban to me, makes perfect sense.
Sounds like someone's got a personal grudge.

 

[plin]

and I doubt she has six-hundred and three posts of shit on a message board.

Your just jealous cause your in second place lol

gah! it's true

*cries*

 

[plin]

Cool. I guess banning me, if I was the problem, would have been too complex for the admins there.

Banning whoever was being considered the harmful element doesn't stop the problem, because obviously, people can keep re-registering under different aliases.

Because, locking down the forum before even issuing a ban to me, makes perfect sense.
Sounds like someone's got a personal grudge.

nice job buddy, you (and peeps like you, so not to make this personal) fucked it up

haha

 

[Mr. Teatime]

I feel so proud....

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Teatime was being is usual arrogant self, but he was far from being the only one responsible for the closing of the forums. You also have to remember idiots like Visceris were there making demands like they owned the place.

 

[Duodenum]

I suppose that if anything NEW had been said, AT ALL, in the past, oh, 10 or 11 threads, they might have allowed discussion to continue as well. Personally I don't think they should have allowed Fallout 3 discussion at all. Even if it was in "community discussion", it IS "elderscrolls.com", not "fallout3.com" or even "bethsoft.com".

 

[RGE]

About the splitting of hairs, I have some paraphrased words of wisdom from our favourite hobo: "One man's split hair is another's canyon. But a machine's split hair is everyone's canyon." How true those words ring to my ears.

When it comes to similarities between the Infinity engine and turn based, I'd say they're similar enough with autopause on. That is, similar enough for Pete Hines to get away with that statement. Because they do have a couple of major similarities, such as each character's speed and attacks being decided by their stats (and not by the player's skill), and the player being able to take their time deciding upon actions. The major difference would be that everyone take their actions at the same time in the Infinity engine, while they do not in turn based. So there are two major similarities and one major difference, at least in my eyes. Thus, for someone who's not involved in game design or a discussion of the finer points of game design, I think it's to be expected that they might feel that the paused real time of the Infinity engine is similar to turn based. Only if Pete Hines was to develop FO3 would I be concerned with such lack of knowledge.

The way I see it, Pete Hines is not God. Therefore he can't really be held responsible when orthodox Fallout fans study his every word as if it was inscribed on a stone tablet and brought down from the great mountain of Bethesda. Instead of staring myself blind with hatred at the theoretical game knowledge that Pete Hines may or may not possess, I take a holistic view on his messages. And that view tells me nothing, neither good or bad, neither decided or undecided. What some people seem to view as backpedaling I see as explanations to first a misquote and then to an incorrect description of KotOR. Of course I realize that he could be making this up, but even if that's the case, I don't see how it is "to retreat or withdraw from a position or attitude". More like dodging than retreating, wouldn't you agree?

Making the argument that "we Fallout fans are stupid, we need to have everything explained to us in ways that not even idiots could misinterpret" breaks down when you realize, as I have, that Pete Hines is not only communicating to the fans, but to anyone who might take an interest. Therefore Pete Hines can't really derail his every interview into long and detailed explanations, even though he can certainly try to throw in a few tidbits in an attempt to placate the horde at the gates. But yeah, he should do the sensible thing and ignore the horde, and just shut up until Bethesda has forged the steel with which to answer it.

And while I can't properly review Pete Hines' skill as a PR person, I don't think he's been unprofessional. Hayt blew off some steam over at Something Awful, but apparently he intended for those posts to be his private and unofficial view, and not a professional and official statement. Just some guy complaining about the morons he has to deal with at work, y'know. "NERD RAGE!" :wink:

Oh, and I liked the picture, POOPERSCOOPER. Funny. "Yoink!"

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

When it comes to similarities between the Infinity engine and turn based, I'd say they're similar enough with autopause on. That is, similar enough for Pete Hines to get away with that statement. Because they do have a couple of major similarities, such as each character's speed and attacks being decided by their stats (and not by the player's skill), and the player being able to take their time deciding upon actions. The major difference would be that everyone take their actions at the same time in the Infinity engine, while they do not in turn based. So there are two major similarities and one major difference, at least in my eyes.

Perhaps you need to weight the definition of "major" in each case. For example:

• Wizard vs. Four Skeleton Archers:
  
  PHASE BASED:
  
  Wizard casts fireball.
  Skeletons fire arrows.
  Fireball and arrows both travel to targets.
  Skeletons die from 5D6 damage.
  Wizard dies from 1d6 * five arrows
  
  TURN BASED:
  
  Initiative is determined. Skeleton, Wizard, Skeleton, Skeleton, Skeleton, Skeleton.
  Skeleton fires arrow.
  Wizard takes 1d6 arrow damage.
  Wizard fires Fireball.
  Skeletons dies from 5d6 damage.
  Wizard lives happily ever after.

Perhaps MONUMENTAL difference would be more correct.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Phase based also determines initiative, and the turns automatically executed are based on it.

 

[taks]

oddly, SP's little example really illustrates the HUGE difference in balance between the two systems. i wouldn't call the former a failure, since it more closely mimics what might happen in a real battle (yeah, i know, fantasy-real). however, what i think PB would be forced to account for (other than the "leading the target" example i've already stated) is the overwhelming advantage large numbers of enemies have in a PB system. face it, crpgs can't do things the "real" way simply because we don't want to reload that often... nobody would buy it!

taks

 

[RGE]

Perhaps MONUMENTAL difference would be more correct.

MONUMENTAL for you and that poor wizard, but only major for me, and apparently only a split hair to Pete Hines. Kind of how you give significant weight to the words of Pete Hines, while I give them almost no weight beyond the "too early to tell"-message.

We're all different, and in this case we give different weight to this issue, probably because we have different experiences with the games we've played. Now, I have also has bad experiences with phase based, such as the times in NWN when my character is surrounded by opponents that knock him down all the time, where he in turnbased would be able to get back up and run away during his own turn. But it doesn't happen often enough for me to consider the issue monumental, only a major one. And often I'm the one benefitting from phase based, such as all the times when an enemy who detects me doesn't immediately charge 40 or 60 feet and kill me.

Perhaps that makes it a monumental difference though? I do remember those horrible zombies in Pool of Radiance II, and how they'd charge from the edge of my visual field. But I suppose stuff like that primarily matters in persistent worlds, where it's often quite easy to stumble upon enemies that are way too tough. Pete Hines was talking about KotOR, and from what people have been saying, the combat in that game is very easy to handle, so it would make sense that he never had to reload while thinking "if it had only been true turnbased, then I would have made it". So, in the end I suppose that the importance of the difference between turnbased and phase based depend primarily on the difficulty of the combat. Doesn't that sound reasonable?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Phase based also determines initiative, and the turns automatically executed are based on it.

But all that initiative happens so fast, you still have people taking their turns before the results are handled because the projectiles are still in flight.

 

[Nutcracker]

<b>Pete Hines</b>, <A href="http://www.bethsoft.com">Bethesda</a>'s PR guru, has made a few posts in <A href="http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2822842&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=3&vc=1">this thread</A> on the <A href="http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/">The Elder Scrolls forum</a> clarifying some stuff that he's been taking flak from over the last couple of weeks. Here's some important stuff:

<blockquote>Sure, that was a phone interview and he slightly misquoted me. What I said was, "I don't know if we'd suddenly..."

All the other interviews I've done were by email.

It's too early to say because it's too early to say. Nothing's been decided. Sure we have intentions and ideas, but nothing firm yet. There are certainly things we fully INTEND to do, and I could simply and easily answer those questions, but since no team has sat down and decided yet for sure, then it doesn't make sense to give definite answers, even if it's as simple and fundamental as the SPECIAL system. </blockquote>

So, it looks like <a href="http://pc.ign.com">IGN</a> screwed the pooch for everyone with that misquote. That's a pretty big misquote considering it did a lot of damage all around.

Also in that thread:

<blockquote>I played KOTOR with auto-pause turned on in the options, so that it pauses between each round of combat, thereby turning it into more of a turn-based (or round-based, let's not split hairs) experience. Baldur's Gate worked the same way -- KOTOR really just built on that combat system, IMHO -- depending on the settings you used. It's not true turn-based, but it sure is similar and I quite liked it. </blockquote>

Phase based and turn based <i>aren't</i> the same thing. It's like saying a cat is a dog because it has four legs, fur, and a tail. Sure, they're both pets, but they're set up differently.

Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.nma-fallout.com">No Mutants Allowed</A>

Links don't work for me.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

IT'S A TWO YEAR OLD THREAD YOU IDIOT! OF COURSE THE LINKS DON'T WORK!

 

[aweigh]

This is a tough nut to crack.

 

[Nutcracker]

IT'S A TWO YEAR OLD THREAD YOU IDIOT! OF COURSE THE LINKS DON'T WORK!

For someone who claims to be erudite, you certainly don't have a great grasp of irony.

This is a tough nut to crack.

I like the cut of your jib.

 

[themadhatter114]

Saint and Pete Hines arguing over turn-based vs. phase-based:

Jules: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... stop right there. Eatin' a bitch out, and givin' a bitch a foot massage ain't even the same fuckin' thing.
Vincent: It's not. It's the same ballpark.
Jules: Ain't no fuckin' ballpark neither. Now look, maybe your method of massage differs from mine, but, you know, touchin' his wife's feet, and stickin' your tongue in her Holiest of Holies, ain't the same fuckin' ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same fuckin' sport. Look, foot massages don't mean shit.
Vincent: Have you ever given a foot massage?
Jules: [scoffs] Don't be tellin' me about foot massages. I'm the foot fuckin' master.
Vincent: Given a lot of 'em?
Jules: Shit yeah. I got my technique down and everything, I don't be ticklin' or nothin'.