Game News Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Inevitable Excess DLC Released

[Humbaba]

It was made ABUNDANTLY clear

We've already established that it wasn't but thanks for coming.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

People pretending to be surprised that the Wrath of the Righteous DLC map is pretty much the EXACT same as the one for Kingmaker shows just how much cognitive dissonance people are willing to engage in so they can be pissed about something. It was made ABUNDANTLY clear this was going to be another in-game side quest DLC that has to be imported into the main game, and that the second one would be another mega-dungeon. I don't know if I care for this pattern either, but to pretend it was some kind of surprise and hoodwink on the part of Owlcat is the height of disingenuousness.

1. DLC1 for KM and DLC1 for Wrath are literally nothing alike.
2. Second DLC is ABUNDANTLY OBVIOUSLY TOTALLY not going to be a mega dungeon.

Other than that I, uh, agree with you.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

People pretending to be surprised that the Wrath of the Righteous DLC map is pretty much the EXACT same as the one for Kingmaker shows just how much cognitive dissonance people are willing to engage in so they can be pissed about something. It was made ABUNDANTLY clear this was going to be another in-game side quest DLC that has to be imported into the main game, and that the second one would be another mega-dungeon. I don't know if I care for this pattern either, but to pretend it was some kind of surprise and hoodwink on the part of Owlcat is the height of disingenuousness.

No! Kingmaker did have cute new wifes DLC anon! It is true anon! It is! No!

That's a good point. If they are goung to set a simple format for three DLCs for each PF game then be consistent in the type of content. And maybe expand to 5 Season Pass DLCs:
1. Bonus campaign + Additional Races/classes
2. Bonus campaign + companions/npcs
3. Endless dungeon (that one is consistent or will be when it comes out
4. ?
5. ?

seems three is the nagic number lately. And we really don't know if they won't add companions yet. Only the first DLC is releasing right?

 

[InD_ImaginE]

seems three is the nagic number lately. And we really don't know if they won't add companions yet. Only the first DLC is releasing right?

the 2nd DLC is about some poor schmucks surviving attack on Kenabres so I guess they can add new companion there if they want.

And Varnhold's Lot is the best dungeon in KM no contest.

This puzzle focused, no progression (coz you are already Level 20/Mythic 10) DLC with bad encounters is far cry from Varnhold's Lot.

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

That's a good point. If they are goung to set a simple format for three DLCs for each PF game then be consistent in the type of content. And maybe expand to 5 Season Pass DLCs:
1. Bonus campaign + Additional Races/classes
2. Bonus campaign + companions/npcs
3. Endless dungeon (that one is consistent or will be when it comes out
4. ?
5. ?

seems three is the nagic number lately. And we really don't know if they won't add companions yet. Only the first DLC is releasing right?

Thank you anon! You are a good anon!

 

[Immortal]

I'm kind of turning sour on these Owlcat games and the DLC is indicative of that direction.

All these games (BG3, PoE, WL3, DoS2 to a far lesser extent but still guilty) are really starting to feel like just endless dungeon delving / combat encounters.
It feels like all these BG clones are forgoing the NPC / City / Downtime type of content that I remember from BG1 / BG2 / Fallout..

Is it a budget thing? Do Friendly Arm Inn's really cost that much to make?

I must be a minority here, doesn't seem like anyone else gives a fuck about this but to me all these games are getting further and further away from that tabletop DnD experience and it's kind of a bummer.

 

[Delterius]

I must be a minority here, doesn't seem like anyone else gives a fuck about this but to me all these games are getting further and further away from that tabletop DnD experience and it's kind of a bummer.

Nah I agree. Though I haven't finished Wrath I did feel that Kingmaker didn't have that cozy 'downtime' experience of just exploring a large city, mainly because there were no such places in the game. You have your capital, downtime consists of dealing with kingly issues and making rules and laws. Which is fun, but not the same thing. If Owlcat made Kingmaker today they'd have to really improve that aspect. Wrath can be forgiven though, because it's a game about in a war front.

 

[Roguey]

I'm kind of turning sour on these Owlcat games and the DLC is indicative of that direction.

All these games (BG3, PoE, WL3, DoS2 to a far lesser extent but still guilty) are really starting to feel like just endless dungeon delving / combat encounters.
It feels like all these BG clones are forgoing the NPC / City / Downtime type of content that I remember from BG1 / BG2 / Fallout..

Is it a budget thing? Do Friendly Arm Inn's really cost that much to make?

I must be a minority here, doesn't seem like anyone else gives a fuck about this but to me all these games are getting further and further away from that tabletop DnD experience and it's kind of a bummer.

With regard to Owlcat's games, they're adapting the adventure paths. This is what the P&P modules are like. That is the tabletop experience.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I still don't understand the order they went with. Kingmaker then Wrath of the Righteous? What about the ones before and in-between? Lotta games...

path wiki

 

[ROARRR]

Is it a budget thing? Do Friendly Arm Inn's really cost that much to make?

Of course, NPCs in freindly arm drink a lot of bear.
You want them in your game, you pay them.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Drinking bear is dangerous and sounds nasty.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Drinking bear is dangerous and sounds nasty.

That depends, male or female?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Ewwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I still don't understand the order they went with. Kingmaker then Wrath of the Righteous? What about the ones before and in-between? Lotta games...

path wiki

They just pick what they want. In case of WotR it is probably because of Mythic Rules, in OG PF 1 APs it is the only one that by nature (or at least the first one now if there is any new one) incorporate Mythic Rule to its narrative.

And as roguey said, in case of Owlcat games... they are naturally like that because they are adapting AP which is structured that way. Granted some AP could be located in 1 massive city most of the time so you can have the probability of having a sprawling hub. Design wise the Capital and Drezden could be structured that way alongside with quest giving NPC but Owlcat definitely focus them to be functional hub where you are dealing with major threat instead of taking a lot of random quest from NPC instead.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

How are people surprised, Kingmaker DLC was terrible as well.

everyone point at this nerd and laugh for not liking dual waifu dlc

Agreed, the tiefling sisters were a great addition. Should have just made another companion. Perhaps a straight white male for the people who complained about the lack of one (Wrath already has plenty of women).

Manlet erasure right here, unless I missed that Greybor is Gaybor.

 

[Roguey]

Manlet erasure right here, unless I missed that Greybor is Gaybor.

Yes, that is part of the seething, that the only cool guys are manlets.

 

[Delterius]

Manlet erasure right here, unless I missed that Greybor is Gaybor.

Yes, that is part of the seething, that the only cool guys are manlets.

>Greybor
>Cool
the guy is a meme

 

[Humbaba]

>Greybor
>Cool
the guy is a meme

Greybor's very effective with a good Ugrosh. Slayer's a strong class in general.

 

[Nano]

Aptly named.

 

[Stokowski]

>Greybor
>Cool
the guy is a meme

Greybor's very effective with a good Ugrosh. Slayer's a strong class in general.

By the time a dwarf enters melee range, though, the battle is usually half over.

 

[Immortal]

I'm kind of turning sour on these Owlcat games and the DLC is indicative of that direction.

All these games (BG3, PoE, WL3, DoS2 to a far lesser extent but still guilty) are really starting to feel like just endless dungeon delving / combat encounters.
It feels like all these BG clones are forgoing the NPC / City / Downtime type of content that I remember from BG1 / BG2 / Fallout..

Is it a budget thing? Do Friendly Arm Inn's really cost that much to make?

I must be a minority here, doesn't seem like anyone else gives a fuck about this but to me all these games are getting further and further away from that tabletop DnD experience and it's kind of a bummer.

With regard to Owlcat's games, they're adapting the adventure paths. This is what the P&P modules are like. That is the tabletop experience.

Sure?

Assuming the DM literally adds or does nothing.
Sounds fucking boring though.

I must be a minority here, doesn't seem like anyone else gives a fuck about this but to me all these games are getting further and further away from that tabletop DnD experience and it's kind of a bummer.

Nah I agree. Though I haven't finished Wrath I did feel that Kingmaker didn't have that cozy 'downtime' experience of just exploring a large city, mainly because there were no such places in the game. You have your capital, downtime consists of dealing with kingly issues and making rules and laws. Which is fun, but not the same thing. If Owlcat made Kingmaker today they'd have to really improve that aspect. Wrath can be forgiven though, because it's a game about in a war front.

I agree but.. What I also wanted to say - but didn't.. a PnP that revolves 100% around fighting Demons non-stop is just a shitty experience.

I just didn't want to sound too divisive - needed to farm as much brofist as possible.

So yea, does it make sense to have no downtime and just endlessly slaughter demons? Sure..
Does it also feel shitty to not have the downtime your talking about for those #Cozy city exploration moments. IMO Yes.

 

[Roguey]

Sure?

Assuming the DM literally adds or does nothing.
Sounds fucking boring.

When you're running a barony or fighting a war against demons, it's inappropriate and would be at odds with the goal of the campaign to just fuck off to run errands for random people in small villages. Maybe there are Adventure Paths with campaigns that support that, but not the ones Owlcat chose.

 

[Immortal]

Sure?

Assuming the DM literally adds or does nothing.
Sounds fucking boring.

When you're running a barony or fighting a war against demons, it's inappropriate and would be at odds with the goal of the campaign to just fuck off to run errands for random people in small villages. Maybe there are Adventure Paths with campaigns that support that, but not the ones Owlcat chose.

Yea I expanded my response above.
TL;DR - "muh pnp is about demon slaying non-stop" is a sort of a lame way to avoid having to make that type of content and hurts the experience for me regardless.

Also most DM's generally work in their own encounters and non-combat solutions to problems was what my point was.
I've never had a DM that followed a PnP to the letter.

EDIT

"it's inappropriate and would be at odds with the goal of the campaign"

Don't care - fun trumps all.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Also most DM's generally work in their own encounters and non-combat solutions to problems was what my point was.
I've never had a DM that followed a PnP to the letter.

Well Owlcat do make a lot of change on encounters, including the stories.

But as Roguey said, the context of the AP is that you are commander. Having a hub town and fucking around certainly is outside of question.

At best WoTR should take some sort of War Table with different advisor asking your help to resolve a thematic issue like in DA Inquisition, but instead of mobile game click and wait, actually make it a mission. This could be pretty integrated with the current advisor event structure but instead of just making choice, tie it up to quests. That's probably the only "mission hub" structure that work with the premise of the campaign. Even then it wouldn't even what you want of having a cozy town to do quest for random NPCs.

Certainly being mercenaries in Crusade would be interesting but it really isn't what this AP is about or the kind of game that is being made.

The criticism of "muh pnp is about demon slaying non-stop" is valid one of both the game and the AP. But once again it's issue of context. In a hindsight picking this AP will always have this issue. Owlcat certainly only choose this AP for the Mythic Class stuff. The game pretty much suffer because of the setting.

 

[NJClaw]

When you're running a barony or fighting a war against demons, it's inappropriate and would be at odds with the goal of the campaign to just fuck off to run errands for random people in small villages. Maybe there are Adventure Paths with campaigns that support that, but not the ones Owlcat chose.

Both games have quests where you literally run errands for random people in small villages, though