Game News Pathfinder: Kingmaker details revealed at PaizoCon 2017 - Kickstarter confirmed, possibly in June

[l3loodAngel]

l3loodAngel You don't understand. I think he understands "genre" like.. hmmm.
It's like art.
As soon as anyone says "this is art", it is art. Whether you like it or not.

It is about as useful as a definition as "this is an RPG because I play a role hurr durr".

I do believe there is a distinction between those two. I am not against comparing products/services by a set parameters or qualities. However, calling a set of not connected and/or vaguely described qualities a genre is too much for me to stomach.

 

[thesheeep]

In the meantime, I'll keep using the word 'genre' in the sense of I want to define a group of like things, rather than in the strictly taxonomic sense. Like most people do...

Completely arbitrary definitions that are used by exactly 1 person are useless.

You can ask for isometric games, and people will give you a list.
But if you ask for games in the isometric "genre", people will just look at you baffled.
And some might still give you that list because they assume you aren't really talking about a genre (like action/puzzle/RPG, things that aren't related at all to perspective).
Just how FPS is a genre, but only "FP" isn't.

 

[Ulfhednar]

You can keep specifying subgenres. Like Teenage slasher horror is a subgenre of slasher horror is a subgenre of horror is a subgenre of fiction. Usually people just drop the 'sub' part and talk about teenage slasher horror as a 'genre'. You can keep subdividing, so you can literally talk about any kind of prerequisites that you want to put on your genre. Why the fuck are we still talking about this?

 

[Ulfhednar]

Just how FPS is a genre, but only "FP" isn't.

Shooters are a genre.
First-Person shooters are a subgenre of shooters.
Military FPS are a subgenre of FPS
WWII Military FPS are a subgenre of Military FPS

RPGs are a genre.
cRPGs are a subgenre of RPGs.
Western cRPGs are a subgenre of cRPGs.
isometric Western cRPGs are a subgenre of Western cRPGs.
RTwP isometric Western cRPGs are a subgenre of isometric Western cRPGs.

 

[l3loodAngel]

Just how FPS is a genre, but only "FP" isn't.

Shooters are a genre.
First-Person shooters are a subgenre of shooters.
Military FPS are a subgenre of FPS
WWII Military FPS are a subgenre of Military FPS

RPGs are a genre.
cRPGs are a subgenre of RPGs.
Western cRPGs are a subgenre of cRPGs.
isometric Western cRPGs are a subgenre of Western cRPGs.
RTwP isometric Western cRPGs are a subgenre of isometric Western cRPGs.

And? This so fucked up from any perspective that it's completely pointless to talk about it. (explanation: The sample is pointless if there's only one product in it released during the last decade or even more.)

 

[Ulfhednar]

Just how FPS is a genre, but only "FP" isn't.

Shooters are a genre.
First-Person shooters are a subgenre of shooters.
Military FPS are a subgenre of FPS
WWII Military FPS are a subgenre of Military FPS

RPGs are a genre.
cRPGs are a subgenre of RPGs.
Western cRPGs are a subgenre of cRPGs.
isometric Western cRPGs are a subgenre of Western cRPGs.
RTwP isometric Western cRPGs are a subgenre of isometric Western cRPGs.

And? This so fucked up from any perspective that it's completely pointless to talk about it. (explanation: The sample is pointless if there's only one product in it released during the last decade or even more.)

That was exactly the point I was originally making - No game has been released in this genre for 15 years. Regardless of whether you like PoE or not, it is the big fish the Pathfinder: Kingmaker competes with, because both games are in the same (sub)genre.

 

[l3loodAngel]

Just how FPS is a genre, but only "FP" isn't.

Shooters are a genre.
First-Person shooters are a subgenre of shooters.
Military FPS are a subgenre of FPS
WWII Military FPS are a subgenre of Military FPS

RPGs are a genre.
cRPGs are a subgenre of RPGs.
Western cRPGs are a subgenre of cRPGs.
isometric Western cRPGs are a subgenre of Western cRPGs.
RTwP isometric Western cRPGs are a subgenre of isometric Western cRPGs.

And? This so fucked up from any perspective that it's completely pointless to talk about it. (explanation: The sample is pointless if there's only one product in it released during the last decade or even more.)

That was exactly the point I was originally making - No game has been released in this genre for 15 years. Regardless of whether you like PoE or not, it is the big fish the Pathfinder: Kingmaker competes with, because both games are in the same (sub)genre.

You lack basic understanding, but keep fighting the good fight. Describing arbitrary qualities and saying that no games were released means nothing, because games are usually compared by their market size (target audience). Unless POE or some other tittle can fully saturate market or push competitors out it's position is completely irrelevant.

Let's imagine I created a Yuge car out of cardboard. Sadly this does not make me a big fish in big cardboard car market that everyone has to fear (other can do it better, probably cheaper etc.). It just makes me one off.

Additionally, POE players can play games from other companies and have fun. Sure Sawyer and Roguey will probably kick you out of their FB friends if they find out that a person played (or even worse enjoyed other products), but normaly a person can buy both, play both and enjoy both of the games. Therefore, saying that Russians are ballsy and they should postpone their release indefinitely just because POE exists is stupid. + the game can attract custmers from other genres making your point even less relevant.

 

[thesheeep]

Just how FPS is a genre, but only "FP" isn't.

Shooters are a genre.
First-Person shooters are a subgenre of shooters.
Military FPS are a subgenre of FPS
WWII Military FPS are a subgenre of Military FPS

RPGs are a genre.
cRPGs are a subgenre of RPGs.
Western cRPGs are a subgenre of cRPGs.
isometric Western cRPGs are a subgenre of Western cRPGs.
RTwP isometric Western cRPGs are a subgenre of isometric Western cRPGs.

This is where you lose it.
Genres are meant to be broad definitions, to more easily categorize something.
The red stuff is so far away from being broad that it makes no sense calling it a genre anymore.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Just how FPS is a genre, but only "FP" isn't.

Shooters are a genre.
First-Person shooters are a subgenre of shooters.
Military FPS are a subgenre of FPS
WWII Military FPS are a subgenre of Military FPS

RPGs are a genre.
cRPGs are a subgenre of RPGs.
Western cRPGs are a subgenre of cRPGs.
isometric Western cRPGs are a subgenre of Western cRPGs.
RTwP isometric Western cRPGs are a subgenre of isometric Western cRPGs.

This is where you lose it.
Genres are meant to be broad definitions, to more easily categorize something.
The red stuff is so far away from being broad that it makes no sense calling it a genre anymore.

When people casually use the word 'genre', usually what they really mean is subgenre. But looks like you'll do well on your English 101 test.

 

[l3loodAngel]

Just how FPS is a genre, but only "FP" isn't.

Shooters are a genre.
First-Person shooters are a subgenre of shooters.
Military FPS are a subgenre of FPS
WWII Military FPS are a subgenre of Military FPS

RPGs are a genre.
cRPGs are a subgenre of RPGs.
Western cRPGs are a subgenre of cRPGs.
isometric Western cRPGs are a subgenre of Western cRPGs.
RTwP isometric Western cRPGs are a subgenre of isometric Western cRPGs.

This is where you lose it.
Genres are meant to be broad definitions, to more easily categorize something.
The red stuff is so far away from being broad that it makes no sense calling it a genre anymore.

When people casually use the word 'genre', usually what they really mean is subgenre. But looks like you'll do well on your English 101 test.

Yes I am also at fault here. I use "genre" to call blobbers. However, I would not say : Blobber, made by one man, for 20 years, with turtle transport, no release date - genre

 

[Ulfhednar]

You lack basic understanding, but keep fighting the good fight. Describing arbitrary qualities and saying that no games were released means nothing, because games are usually compared by their market size (target audience). Unless POE or some other tittle can fully saturate market or push competitors out it's position completely irrelevant.

Let's imagine I created a Yuge car out of cardboard. Sadly this does not make me a big fish in big cardboard car market that everyone has to fear (other can do it better, probably cheaper etc.). It just makes me one off.

Additionally, POE players can play games from other companies and have fun. Sure Sawyer and Roguey will probably kick you out of their FB friends if they find out that a person played (or even worse enjoyed other products), but normaly a person can buy both, play both and enjoy both of the games. Therefore, saying that Russians are ballsy and they should postpone their release indefinitely just because POE exists is stupid. + the game can attract custmers from other genres making your point even less relevant.

Both of these games are RTwP isometric Western cRPGs. That means they will compete for market share. That is literally the only observation that I was making with my earlier comments.

 

[Black]

Define rpg first.

 

[l3loodAngel]

You lack basic understanding, but keep fighting the good fight. Describing arbitrary qualities and saying that no games were released means nothing, because games are usually compared by their market size (target audience). Unless POE or some other tittle can fully saturate market or push competitors out it's position completely irrelevant.

Let's imagine I created a Yuge car out of cardboard. Sadly this does not make me a big fish in big cardboard car market that everyone has to fear (other can do it better, probably cheaper etc.). It just makes me one off.

Additionally, POE players can play games from other companies and have fun. Sure Sawyer and Roguey will probably kick you out of their FB friends if they find out that a person played (or even worse enjoyed other products), but normaly a person can buy both, play both and enjoy both of the games. Therefore, saying that Russians are ballsy and they should postpone their release indefinitely just because POE exists is stupid. + the game can attract custmers from other genres making your point even less relevant.

Both of these games are RTwP isometric Western cRPGs. That means they will compete for market share. That is literally the only observation that I was making with my earlier comments.

No they won't. They are not mutually exclusive. They can compete a little bit, by people not having infinite finances (but even then 3 months are enough to get the money). Please read because you sorely need economic studies. And I though that this was intuitive...

 

[thesheeep]

Define rpg first.

Character skill > player skill. Player determines actions to take, character defines the outcome.
Stats & character building.
Player plays one or multiple roles that actually exist within the game world, are persistent and have a direct influence on gameplay.

It's actually pretty easy once you take all the fluff out.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[l3loodAngel]

Man are you losing your edge? You should have dumfucked and butthurted everyone that makes sense in this thread.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Woohoo! - 50 posts and my "Going down the toilet" trophy for this clusterfuck of a rant.

 

[ArchAngel]

Ah Codex.. you never change. 2 new pages in this topic since yesterday.. I should have known it would be about nothing.

 

[thesheeep]

Well, what can you do?
The game itself is pretty much "wait and see" at this point.