TBS Panzer General / Fantasy General / Panzer Corps Introduction

[Luka-boy]

Is there anything like these games that's not World War 1/2 or American Civil War (besides Fantasy General)?

I've always been interested at the games but frankly the settings most of these games take place don't interest me at all

Install Open General (it's free) and check the user made campaigns and scenarios based on other settings and eras of history.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

So considering the Panzer General Forever is free i tried playing it a bit

So I guess you just kinda replay these scenarios over and over? Any good custom scenarios for PG Forever?

The turn limits in German related scenarios are pretty fun so far, the game is more like a puzzle in general instead of tactic game where you find that 1 way to solve the scenario in the allotted time, with some spark of RNGs (tried the exact same shit 2 times in scenario, worked one time failed the other because of some RNG failing your attack)

 

[std::namespace]

let me google it for you
http://forum.open-general.com/viewforum.php?f=95

also
peoples general mods are cuter
https://peoplesgeneral.de/index.html

i dunno if pgonline just copied all the pg2 campaigns
http://panzermarshal.com/

also also
i open a thread about pg and first post compares sanctum reach to pg

 

[Parsimonious cook]

Shiiiiiiiiet, thanks bro. Playing the Desert Storm campaign right now, seems solid. Also loling hard at 90% of mods for People´s General being focused on age of muskets instead of modern warfare.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

my mouse does not really work in this 'mod'/'game'..probably due to modern windows issues..not sure it is worth it to try and fix..it sort of does, goes in and out, but not well enough to play..also some of the people general mods actually seem like panzer general 2 mods, but maybe I am wrong.

 

[std::namespace]

people general mods actually seem like panzer general 2 mods

how can you tell?

mouse might get fixed by, have not tried
http://www.peoplesgeneral.de/Downloads/ddraw.dlll (Dont start Peg via Win 95 or 98 Combatibility mod ! )

quality of campaigns is undetermined

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

people general mods actually seem like panzer general 2 mods

how can you tell?

mouse might get fixed by, have not tried
http://www.peoplesgeneral.de/Downloads/ddraw.dlll (Dont start Peg via Win 95 or 98 Combatibility mod ! )

quality of campaigns is undetermined

just because I played panzer general 2 for like 1000 hours back in the day and I swear the Germain campaign I loaded up here was the panzer general 2 campaign-- but my mouse would not really let me get too far into the game to look..I do think the UI elements had some People General upgrades maybe, but my mouse was so messed up I really was not able to tell. The music seemed the same as PG2 also..

I guess what I mean is I think it was just the PG2 German Blitzkrieg campaign with some new equipment file upgrades and maybe the addition of people general 2 UI elements.

 

[std::namespace]

there is a slight difference between "panzer general 2 mods" and "panzer general 2 campaign" thought it might be an identical engine even...

 

[Ol' Willy]

Downloaded PG3 Scorched Earth, and damn it's good. Interface leaves much to be desired, but the rest is great.

A shame that it didn't get the attention it deserves. I remember reading reviews of it, and reviewers were full of shit as usual. People accented the new 3D engine, but the game mechanics were thoroughly reworked. Finally a phased movement, finally made all units almost equally valuable (not like in PG1 where you can roll through entire campaign with only tanks, bridge engineers, fighters and stukas), solved the problem with overexperienced units owning everything they encounter (like in PG1 and PG2 where 5 exp tanks can easily take over cities with no support), combined warfare is now obligatory, and of course new leader mechanics with special abilities and perks. No more prestige, you have the limited pool of equipment available (so no more of "oh, I've got Tigers available, now all my tanks are Tigers), and no initiative (which made possible wiping out full strength enemy units with no losses with high exp units).

One could clearly see the evolution of the series. PG1 had only exp which completely unbalanced the game, with 5 star units annihilating everything with no support. PG2 added perks, but the core idea of 5 exp units blasting everything around remained. And only in PG3 this was fixed, now even something like King Tiger with 10 stars leader would not be able to destroy a single enemy tank unit without support

It's kinda sad that most of the PG clones went copying PG2 instead

 

[Lagi]

Is there anything like these games that's not World War 1/2 or American Civil War (besides Fantasy General)?

I've always been interested at the games but frankly the settings most of these games take place don't interest me at all

Install Open General (it's free) and check the user made campaigns and scenarios based on other settings and eras of history.

i think Open General is great in this regard, because the main installer come with like 30 different equipments = games with different eras units and scenarios.

I played Antique General (some of the attacks/defenses annoy me a bit there, but i guess thats all what modders could do with exesiting system. Also the white stone background UI was an eye sore) and Kaiser. I remember some "exotic" wars in Asia (japan?) with rebels.

Only draw back i remember was Ai taking ages to complete his turn. I want to go make myself tea, but then i didnt see which of my units get destroyed in computer turn.

P.S. I remember I have follow JP' forum, that is now taken down spring of 2020, where Patrick Steinmann was making high quality pike and shot era mod.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

How's OpenGen doing these days, btw? Need to try the latest build once I'm back from holiday break.

It's kinda sad that most of the PG clones went copying PG2 instead

But almost none of the PG clones work in the way you describe. In fact, most of them try really hard to go into the opposite direction, making everything a slog and a bitch to kill unless you really focus fire instead of playing the big picture game. There are even examples of baking in semi-godmode for damaged units and advertising it as a feature.

Say what you want about PG2, it's still the best when it comes to overall numbers game and how it flows with value and cooperation of different unit types. Like artillery being actually fecking scary, instead of an overpriced entrenchment lube.

And General series did have a title that innovated with some p good ideas that were never really utilized later on before the 3d entries. That one also had a huge advantage of a cool and fresh setting, cause god knows I'm tired of doing exactly the same blitzkrieg campaign for the 39th time.

 

[Ol' Willy]

But almost none of the PG clones work in the way you describe. In fact, most of them try really hard to go into the opposite direction, making everything a slog and a bitch to kill unless you really focus fire instead of playing the big picture game. There are even examples of baking in semi-godmode for damaged units and advertising it as a feature.

I understand what they are trying to do, but they do it very badly.

Totally wiping out units is unrealistic and happens very rarely in real life. We got this. Now, how could we introduce it into the game like Panzer General where you need to kill units?

We tune the defense/damage values so attacks cause not much overall damage and no more multikills in one turn. Then, we limit refits - either at deployment area, or we remove them at all. We can limit refits only to between missions, and force player to have reserves in case some units had to be replaced.

This is close to what modern PG clones do, turning the game into a slog.

Then we had to introduce morale. When under attack and taking damage, the morals lowers. Successful attacks and inflicted damage increase morale. The lower the morale, the worse attack/defense capabilities of the unit, some special abilities may become unavailable, units with very low morale can't fight at all and can't capture anything. This is similar to how it works in Steel Panthers, there units with low morale are not even controllable and just try to fuck away from the battlefield. In PG clone, you can add leader stats and various perks relating to morale factor.

With some tuning, such system will work great

Say what you want about PG2, it's still the best when it comes to overall numbers game and how it flows with value and cooperation of different unit types. Like artillery being actually fecking scary, instead of an overpriced entrenchment lube.

The best cooperation is still in Scorched Earth. If we talk arty, in Scorched Earth it can fire after moving, it causes lasting suppression, and it is useful even against tanks and other well armored targets. Attacking with arty and without it differs like night and day. Of course, bombers are still OP but the game won't let you to fill third of your slots with bombers only (and air defenses are more beefed up too).

PG2 could be easily played with only infantry + tanks + fighters + bombers combo, even then, I think one can do it even without the infantry.

And General series did have a title that innovated with some p good ideas that were never really utilized later on before the 3d entries. That one also had a huge advantage of a cool and fresh setting, cause god knows I'm tired of doing exactly the same blitzkrieg campaign for the 39th time.

People's General? Never really played it, it takes effort to create the setting so idiotic. They could take 1970-80s "Cold War goes hot" like all normal people do, they could do some regional conflicts like Arab-Israeli wars or Iran-Iraq war, yet they create the setting where Chyna goes on world conquest rampage, and Russland with Kwa together fight against it. This is Call of Booty levels of setting building

 

[ValeVelKal]

Downloaded PG3 Scorched Earth, and damn it's good. Interface leaves much to be desired, but the rest is great.

A shame that it didn't get the attention it deserves. I remember reading reviews of it, and reviewers were full of shit as usual. People accented the new 3D engine, but the game mechanics were thoroughly reworked. Finally a phased movement, finally made all units almost equally valuable (not like in PG1 where you can roll through entire campaign with only tanks, bridge engineers, fighters and stukas), solved the problem with overexperienced units owning everything they encounter (like in PG1 and PG2 where 5 exp tanks can easily take over cities with no support), combined warfare is now obligatory, and of course new leader mechanics with special abilities and perks. No more prestige, you have the limited pool of equipment available (so no more of "oh, I've got Tigers available, now all my tanks are Tigers), and no initiative (which made possible wiping out full strength enemy units with no losses with high exp units).

One could clearly see the evolution of the series. PG1 had only exp which completely unbalanced the game, with 5 star units annihilating everything with no support. PG2 added perks, but the core idea of 5 exp units blasting everything around remained. And only in PG3 this was fixed, now even something like King Tiger with 10 stars leader would not be able to destroy a single enemy tank unit without support

It's kinda sad that most of the PG clones went copying PG2 instead

There is a reason I put it 2nd in my "pure clone" list and 4th in my "genre" list. What I like best is how they balanced units by how many "strength points" they have. Want the new Tiger? Well, there is only one available AND it maxes at 8 strength points, so not really a viable unit for sustained operation (in particular as max-HP decreases as you refit your unit). Want to use a gold old Panzer IV instead ? 12 strength points, if not 15.

 

[Ol' Willy]

There is a reason I put it 2nd in my "pure clone" list and 4th in my "genre" list.

Of the first three ones I've only tried Unity of Command 2, but it is not really a wargame, UoC2 is a puzzle game. Everything is designed so tight that you just had to find that "correct" strategy to win the map. Which is made outrageous by how wild RNG rolls are.

Not a fun of such approach

 

[ValeVelKal]

There is a reason I put it 2nd in my "pure clone" list and 4th in my "genre" list.

Of the first three ones I've only tried Unity of Command 2, but it is not really a wargame, UoC2 is a puzzle game. Everything is designed so tight that you just had to find that "correct" strategy to win the map. Which is made outrageous by how wild RNG rolls are.

Not a fun of such approach

That would be UoC1. UoC2 is much more open, EXCEPT the two first scenarios (in North Africa) which are the worst the game has to offer.

 

[flyingjohn]

There is a reason I put it 2nd in my "pure clone" list and 4th in my "genre" list.

You have a genre list?

 

[Parsimonious cook]

People's General? Never really played it, it takes effort to create the setting so idiotic. They could take 1970-80s "Cold War goes hot" like all normal people do, they could do some regional conflicts like Arab-Israeli wars or Iran-Iraq war, yet they create the setting where Chyna goes on world conquest rampage, and Russland with Kwa together fight against it. This is Call of Booty levels of setting building

That´s literally the plot of Tom Clancy´s The Bear and the Dragon - the embodiment of the 90s optimism about the world in which ruskies turn out to be normal people that can brought into the fold as allies against the chinks. There was a pretty strong current in the western thinking at the time that went in this direction, so I dont find it surprising at all that a game from 1999 would have used it as a premise.

The game itself is p. gud, its a great shame there are no other PG clones in modern setting.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I would now highly recommend Order of Battle over Panzer Corps

Panzer Corps 2 became a complete nonsense whereas Order of Battle has several new rules which are mostly not bad, and overall it still plays like a Panzer General game

during sales the DLCs are also cheap asf, you can have content for months for less than 10$

 

[Burning Bridges]

peoples general mods are cuter
https://peoplesgeneral.de/index.html

Peoples General always deserves a special mention, it's something that should still be replayed today and has the same incredible balance PG had. At least in the first campaigns

 

[std::namespace]

PG2 added perks, but the core idea of 5 exp units blasting everything around remained.

btw id like to take a second and inform all the zoomers reading, this that
this guy is full of shit, dont take a word he says seriously

i can instantly tell cause the 5xp tiger is gonna bite the dust on the first city with an at gun behind the entrenched infantry,
which is every big city!

btw

PG2 could be easily played with only infantry + tanks + fighters + bombers combo, even then, I think one can do it even without the infantry.

he forgets THE most important unit type in the game, whcih doesnt happen to anyone who has played pg2
in fact, you can get brilliant victories without fighters, which is probably the more efficient way, because aa is way cheaper
and the only reason to get stukas is to chew through enemy armored at, which are waiting for your 5xp tigers...

also, "easily played" is a 40 turn max limit map """win""" while actual real gaymers only get brilliant victories at 17 turns
19 is allowed if you are morally weak

 

[Ol' Willy]

PG2 added perks, but the core idea of 5 exp units blasting everything around remained.

btw id like to take a second and inform all the zoomers reading, this that
this guy is full of shit, dont take a word he says seriously

i can instantly tell cause the 5xp tiger is gonna bite the dust on the first city with an at gun behind the entrenched infantry,
which is every big city!

btw

PG2 could be easily played with only infantry + tanks + fighters + bombers combo, even then, I think one can do it even without the infantry.

he forgets THE most important unit type in the game, whcih doesnt happen to anyone who has played pg2
in fact, you can get brilliant victories without fighters, which is probably the more efficient way, because aa is way cheaper
and the only reason to get stukas is to chew through enemy armored at, which are waiting for your 5xp tigers...

also, "easily played" is a 40 turn max limit map """win""" while actual real gaymers only get brilliant victories at 17 turns
19 is allowed if you are morally weak

Yeah, I have never played PG2, sure. You are retard, doxxer

Why would I want to attack enemy full strength AT with my tanks if I have bombers?

The only job at which arty in PG2 could not really be replaced is safely taking out enemy AA, preparing the rape field for your bombers. Without arty, you would have to do it with your bombers instead, doable, but with casualties; although 15 strength Stuka with double attack perk can do it in one turn

Because AI is not reactive, it would not purchase any new AA units to stop the rape from the air. Airforce is OP in all PG main series, with the exception of Soviet campaigns as you would have harder time dealing with German fighters

 

[Ol' Willy]

I found the working link for PG3SE only big mod package

http://www.opengeneral.pl/pg2campaigns/steve/pg3/pg3.htm

Just make a clear SE install and drop the contents of the archive inside, replace everything. Delete setup.exe, it is not needed

The package has a launcher. Tick two boxes for custom equipment (if desired) and campaign, select the needed campaign (it always replaces Guderian campaign) and launch it. If you play through dxwnd do all of the above, then launch pg3.exe as usual, applied changes should remain.

The mod ports all PG3D campaigns to SE engine, plus adds two more campaigns - USA vs USSR 1945 based on singleplayer missions and extended Guderian campaign (20+ scenarios)

 

[Ol' Willy]

Lately I play SE at work and PG2 at home. After refreshing my memory about stock campaigns in a normal way, I desired to start a gimmick run of PG2

Two valid gimmick runs I can think of for PG2 are "no airforce" and "no tanks" ones. "No airforce" is playable, you just invest in arty and air defenses a lot, but I am not gonna play it. "No tanks" looks interesting since most of the gameplay is centered about tanks; no tanks - no overruns

Thus, the armored core of such run had to be made of antitanks and recons; and while Germans get the good ones later in the game, early on you are stuck with subpar PSW231 and StuG3B. And most of the Blitzkrieg campaign happens in 1940-41.

Before Klin it looks like this

4 StuGs, 2 acht-achts, 3 sFH 18, 3 sIG, 4 PSW231, 5 pioneers, 2 cavalry, 3 fighters and 7 Stukas. 100 prestige difficulty, the only regular victory is Dunkirk to play three more scenarios in Africa and Malta. 3 lost infantry is aux fingol infantry in Suomisalmi scenario.

Perks rolls are curious. I've got only 2 AT with perks, and remember, AT with perks can attack without penalty just like a tank - so this is kinda a bummer. Though StuG with urban perk is particularly good, it can blast infantry from the cities like it's free. Only one arty with perk, so disappointment too. Recon with double fire can be thought of as a waste but no, it can attack really good if the target was softened enough. Recon with liberator is a dream, can't complain. Bu then, 3 Stukas with phased move, one with double attack and one fighter with phased move. This is extremely generous

Airforce does most of the heavy lifting, but as one can see, ground units are well developed too. Interesting run to see the strengths of all unit classes

 

[ValeVelKal]

Lately I play SE at work and PG2 at home. After refreshing my memory about stock campaigns in a normal way, I desired to start a gimmick run of PG2

Two valid gimmick runs I can think of for PG2 are "no airforce" and "no tanks" ones. "No airforce" is playable, you just invest in arty and air defenses a lot, but I am not gonna play it. "No tanks" looks interesting since most of the gameplay is centered about tanks; no tanks - no overruns

Thus, the armored core of such run had to be made of antitanks and recons; and while Germans get the good ones later in the game, early on you are stuck with subpar PSW231 and StuG3B. And most of the Blitzkrieg campaign happens in 1940-41.

Before Klin it looks like this

4 StuGs, 2 acht-achts, 3 sFH 18, 3 sIG, 4 PSW231, 5 pioneers, 2 cavalry, 3 fighters and 7 Stukas. 100 prestige difficulty, the only regular victory is Dunkirk to play three more scenarios in Africa and Malta. 3 lost infantry is aux fingol infantry in Suomisalmi scenario.

Perks rolls are curious. I've got only 2 AT with perks, and remember, AT with perks can attack without penalty just like a tank - so this is kinda a bummer. Though StuG with urban perk is particularly good, it can blast infantry from the cities like it's free. Only one arty with perk, so disappointment too. Recon with double fire can be thought of as a waste but no, it can attack really good if the target was softened enough. Recon with liberator is a dream, can't complain. Bu then, 3 Stukas with phased move, one with double attack and one fighter with phased move. This is extremely generous

Airforce does most of the heavy lifting, but as one can see, ground units are well developed too. Interesting run to see the strengths of all unit classes

I had a gimmick run at PGIIISE: Always take the worst unit available in the class ["obsolete" units (with 20 ST) can still be bypassed)]. I had some great fun.