Incline Okay let's be real here... Which games can never be RPGs?

[luj1]

Few things,

- This post-modernism where anything can be whatever is a big turd, fuck that shit
- Classification should be examined independently from quality (I am a Dork Souls hater but I can accept the first game is probably good regardless of genre; or that Disco has a good art vibe, etc., so talking strictly about genres)

As far as I'm concerned,

- Games where player skill (reflexes, twitch) carries significantly more impact than character skill cannot be RPGs. These are usually realtime action games with stats (Dark Souls, Borderlands, etc.) I think you can complete Skyrim or Deus Ex without stat investment, so I would be hesitant to call them RPGs. I believe Cyberpunk is close too.
- CYOA games with limited gameplay masquerading as RPGs. These have no gameplay other than reading, perhaps some barebone exploration, but are presented and/or marketed differently. Disco Elysium, Pentiment, Gamedec, etc. It is a joke to call them RPGs (it is a joke to call them adventure games even, but that is another matter).
- Cross genre games where hefty system bloat overshadows core RPG systems. Vagrus, Titan Outpost, etc. These games usually don't know what they want to be (hell, I'd even put half of WotR there). I think they do have RPG elements, but they are not fully developed or are cluttered by strategy elements, macro, 4X, survival, base building or whatever.
- Games that are like interactive movies or walking simulators. Will add more info here later


So the crux of the matter is - take Need for Speed and add stats, does that make it an RPG? Is Pro Evolution Soccer an RPG because every player has stats? Some people like Soyer would say yes, but we know they lost their mind. For me, nope. I used to have a theory that RPGs were not a genre per se, but... a 'quality' or attribute you graft onto another genre. I was wrong. That is just character elements or stats. CRPGs are a distinct genre, they ought to be a digital analog of a tabletop session with miniatures and terrain. It doesn't have to be isometric (ergo, blobbers) but the rest of the criteria must be upheld.

 

[luj1]

I also think the 'role' in RPGs has been severely misunderstood. Today every faggot relativizes and banalizes this as "you are playing a role" like any role in any genre. What it really meant were roles of e.g. Knight, Mage, Thief, etc., which are both tactical AND thematic (story) designations.

 

[buffalo bill]

I think you can complete [...] Deus Ex without stat investment, so I would be hesitant to call them RPGs

gtfo

I'm pretty sure you could beat Fallout with out stat investment if you were careful and lucky.

 

[NotSweeper]

Disco Elysium.

 

[AndyS]

I also think the 'role' in RPGs has been severely misunderstood. Today every faggot relativizes and banalizes this as "you are playing a role" like any role in any genre. What it really meant were roles of e.g. Knight, Mage, Thief, etc., which are both tactical AND thematic (story) designations.

"In Pac-Man, you play the role of Pac-Man, a giant yellow mouth that consumes everything in his path as he's chased by four ghosts..."

 

[Ash]

- Games where player skill (reflexes, twitch) carries significantly more impact than character skill cannot be RPGs. These are usually realtime action games with stats (Dark Souls, Borderlands, etc.) I think you can complete Skyrim or Deus Ex without stat investment, so I would be hesitant to call them RPGs. I believe Cyberpunk is close too.

Those are Action RPGs buddy.

Dark Souls is (relatively) good. And falls under Action RPG which is often not a "true" RPG, no. But sometimes I would say they are, such as Arx Fatalis or Morrowind.

My definition would be to have at least maybe 70% of well-established RPG game design to qualify as a "true" RPG. 40-69% then your game is RPG-lite. Any less than that, not an RPG.

RPG progression systems, preferably intersecting and numerous.
Puzzle and adventure game elements
The ability to roleplay to some extent
Sense of adventure - a variably non-linear world, including navigation challenge and exploration gameplay. Dungeons, towns, overworld.
NPC interactions. People to talk to at bare minimum, the majority optional, and not just a couple dudes, but enough people that creates sense of an actual living world.
Dialogue choices and NPC reactivity for bonus points.
Side quests and optional content in general (secrets)
Die rolls to apply at least some aspects of core gameplay
Inventory, economy, shopping.
Perhaps most importantly, combat to tie much of this together.

Gameplay design should ALWAYS be the determining factor for genre qualification. e.g RTS - the basis is the gameplay. Stealth - the basis is the gameplay. Platformer - the basis is the gameplay.

 

[R@tmaster]

You need to define RPG genre first. You can't start sorting games without any method.

 

[Ash]

I pretty much just did lol

 

[R@tmaster]

I pretty much just did lol

And I pretty much rated it as retarded, LOL.

 

[Ash]

What is disagreeable or not logical? One day you internet vermin will understand that I am always right.

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

Anything that isn't certified codex classic like kotor 2 or alpha protocol

 

[R@tmaster]

What is disagreeable or not logical? One day you internet vermin will understand that I am always right.

Both. But I can't rate retarded twice.

 

[Ash]

Here I'll give you mine, maybe you can find use for it.

 

[Late Bloomer]

I think you can complete Skyrim or Deus Ex without stat investment, so I would be hesitant to call them RPGs

Excellent post.

On the above quote, for clarifiction, are you speaking of playing the game "normally"? No lowering the difficulty, no speedrunning / glitching behaviours? A lot of games can be gamed, so to speak. So for this conversation, is it under the assumption that the game is being played with default settings, not trying to speedrun/glitch through it, and playing it with the intention of honouring the game and its mechanics? Such as doing quests, listening to the story, making choices, exploring (etc) and in general, taking part in at least most of what the game has to offer?

 

[Late Bloomer]

Those are Action RPGs buddy.

Dark Souls is (relatively) good. And falls under Action RPG which is often not a "true" RPG, no. But sometimes I would say they are, such as Arx Fatalis or Morrowind.

What is Diablo 1? Titan Quest?

 

[Ash]

Action-RPG lite, barely qualifying, if at all. I very much prefer the term "clickers" though.

 

[lukaszek]

You need to define RPG genre first. You can't start sorting games without any method.

gaymz where luj needs to read too much are not rpg
gaymz where luj needs to read too little are not rpg
gaymz where luj cant randomly go to the toilet without his character dying are not rpg

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Gary Gygax, Dave Arneson, Jim Ward, and Rob Kuntz sat all night around a campfire at Lake Geneva, discussing the definition of Role-Playing Games. Towards morning, Brian Blume arrived to tell them that it was time to go to their TSR offices. Gary Gygax said, whether a game is an RPG is determined by the number of polearms in its weapons list. And the more polearms it contains, the more it is to be praised.

 

[DoWhocares]

The biggest crime codex committed in recent years is letting Ash change his avatar. Now you can't just scroll past his retardation on reflex alone without ever reading any of that shit.

Instead you now read his drivel, think - damn, this fallout guy is retarded, look at who he is, and it's fucking Ash. Every time.

 

[NecroLord]

Gary Gygax, Dave Arneson, Jim Ward, and Rob Kuntz sat all night around a campfire at Lake Geneva, discussing the definition of Role-Playing Games. Towards morning, Brian Blume arrived to tell them that it was time to go to their TSR offices. Gary Gygax said, whether a game is an RPG is determined by the number of polearms in its weapons list. And the more polearms it contains, the more it is to be praised.

Hell, many RPGs do not have ALL those weapons implemented, just a few of them.

 

[Odoryuk]

Gary Gygax, Dave Arneson, Jim Ward, and Rob Kuntz sat all night around a campfire at Lake Geneva, discussing the definition of Role-Playing Games. Towards morning, Brian Blume arrived to tell them that it was time to go to their TSR offices. Gary Gygax said, whether a game is an RPG is determined by the number of polearms in its weapons list. And the more polearms it contains, the more it is to be praised.

I think the gaming world should stick to this definition.

 

[Ash]

The biggest crime codex committed in recent years is letting Ash change his avatar. Now you can't just scroll past his retardation on reflex alone without ever reading any of that shit.

Instead you now read his drivel, think - damn, this fallout guy is retarded, look at who he is, and it's fucking Ash. Every time.

Ok coward newfag. Reveal yourself, vermin.

Also again, I am almost always right, sorry to say. Not my fault you're retarded.

Lastly, there is an ignore feature, are you too retarded to comprehend that too?

 

[Rincewind]

That's a strong start luj1 right in the first two lines. I like it.

 

[DoWhocares]

The biggest crime codex committed in recent years is letting Ash change his avatar. Now you can't just scroll past his retardation on reflex alone without ever reading any of that shit.

Instead you now read his drivel, think - damn, this fallout guy is retarded, look at who he is, and it's fucking Ash. Every time.

Ok coward newfag. Reveal yourself, vermin.

Also again, I am almost always right, sorry to say. Not my fault you're retarded.

Lastly, there is an ignore feature, are you too retarded to comprehend that too?

Ignoring is for fags. Because then you have people replying to poasts you can't see.

And no, you're never right. You're a m*dder for crying out loud. Everything you touch you turn to shit while deluding yourself you can improve upon the work of your betters. All your ideas are wrong and your retarded autistic brain can't even comprehend the true depths of your retardation.

Put your old avatar back if you're not a complete faggot.

 

[Ash]

Oh, you're Janior or Unreal. Little retard zoomer kids running amok on the codex. That's the real crime.