Review Oblivion scores 5/5 at Games Domain

[Brother None]

Don't give me that. You fucked up the sentence, then tried to blame me for my reading comprehension. I don't give a shit about typos or misspelled words, but the original paragraph as you had it made NO sense. Accept you made an error, clarify what you meant, and there's no problem. Acting like a prick will get you nowhere.

That's odd. I seem to recall your first post being little more than a flame-filled lovefest. I also seem to recall you whining about my English.

But I'm the prick.

Obviously.

Hype is an essential part of marketing. It's presenting a product's features in the best light for the purposes of generating excitement and interest. Every single publisher does it, so there's no point in attacking Bethesda for being particularly successful at it.

No, but just because everyone does it is no reason to leave Bethesda alone. I loathe any publisher that hypes, Bethesda is just one of them. What makes you think I'm singling them out? Because they lied more? Well, that might be true.

You are telling me they have done none of the above, but who are you? Some University kid? Why should I believe you over respected reviewers and journalists that have been in the industry for years?

Actually, those respected reviewers and journalists would be the sources I'm getting that from. Check any of the major gaming sites. They walk right over the flaws, but they point them out.

IGN is the best current example. They're asslickers, sure, but even they can't manage to lie about this with a straight face. They're pointing out flaws. Flaws that are there. Hence a perfect score is unwarranted. Is this logic you wish to refute somehow? Go ahead.

I haven't played Oblivion, so I don't know how bad these perceived flaws are.

...

What?

Oooh, good one there, you almost pissed me off.

You are trolling, right? Tell me you're trolling, because you can't be serious.

You come in here, raging and storming that we dare to judge before playing it, and you haven't played it yourself?

You just lost all credibility. All footing. Why the hell are you even here? To defend a game you haven't played against unjust judgements from people that have actually played it?

By the way, 10 out of 10 doesn't mean flawless, nor does it mean perfection. The fact that I'm even pointing this out to you shows that you frankly don't have much of a clue. Flawlessness and perfection can never be obtained, so what would be the point in even having a "10" score? Why not go 1-9? Oh, but then a 9 would have to be utter perfection, so why not go 1-8? And so on.

*rolls eyes*

10 does mean perfection. It's called scale. 1 is the imperfect, 10 is perfect. No, not "in existence". Everything in between is neither imperfect nor perfect. That's exactly how scaling works.

10 is hypothetical. For a good reason. They're now stuck. What will they do when a better game comes along? 10+? See the problem with your reasoning.

What a 10 means is that the reviewer feels the game is perhaps the best in its genre, a real candidate for Game of the Year, and probably at least a 95 on the percentage scale.

95 would be 9.5, not 10 (presuming 0 to 10, not 1 to 10). Well done, chuckles.

Look, you obviously haven't got a terrific grasp of English. You are, in fact, making yourself look like a buffoon.

Hahahaha. I love it. You do realise I have worked as an English teacher, right?

I'll leave it there.

No, you won't. You accused this place of judging before playing. So I ask you again, real friendly like, to give me an example of it judging without playing. Try the General RPG section. But what's that? Reviews from people who've played the game, unlike you.

Your attempt at side-stepping is weak at best. I suggest you leave before you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot.

At least play the game before returning.

 

[Tintin]

Haha!

 

[The Innovator of Pain]

I repeat: most of the bitchers here haven't played the game. I thought Morrowind was grossly overrated, but I formed that opinion AFTER 20 hours of playing. Until the whingers have played it, they need to STFU and stop trying to ingratiate themselves by beating on Bethesda at every opportunity. It's boring to read.

If you weren't so fucking stupid and eager to jump to conclusions, you'd have seen the number of first impressions posted in the General RPG section.

This shit was going on way before any of you even had access to the game, so don't come back with that bullshit.

 

[Brother None]

This shit was going on way before any of you even had access to the game, so don't come back with that bullshit.

Really? Do point it out, because so far I've only seen you talking without having played the game, not other people.

And no, no generic "this game will suck"-posts. They're just a mirror of generic "this game will rock"-posts. If we're not allowed to make the former, you're not allowed to make the latter and we should all shut up about to-be-released games.

 

[Rendelius]

I am going to ignore the usual pseudo-cool replies of some posters.

I am going to adress one interesting point that has been made here: "We hate Oblivion because of the hype".

That may well be. But: You don't rate a game based on the hype. You rate a game based on the game. Hype is PR bullshit and part of marketing. A game is a game.

And I accuse some here having lost contact with reality by insulting sites that give Oblivion high ratings. They even go so far to say that Bethesda has paid them for rating the game high. This sounds like a conspiracy theory to justify your own standpoint.

You may like or dislike this game. Who cares. But calling others paid idiots and things like that... nah.

I know that those I address will fail to see my point. As I said: the hardest part of being wrong is to admit that one is wrong.

It's 1:30am here. I'll take a nap. Have a nice day.

 

[LlamaGod]

it may not be direct pay, but I put a safe bet in that alot of them kiss-ass as a hopeful towards getting something from Bethesda, weather it be free shit or an interview or whatever.

Magazines fear losing exclusives and some of the largest names could possibly be given an incentive not to rate realistically.

If they actually reviewed the crappy game, Bethesda might not take kindly to them. Even if its Average to Slightly Good in tone, people figure 'Perfect Score = Better Chances'

and it's fucking retarded

 

[Brother None]

I am going to adress one interesting point that has been made here: "We hate Oblivion because of the hype".

That may well be. But: You don't rate a game based on the hype. You rate a game based on the game. Hype is PR bullshit and part of marketing. A game is a game.

This may be true, but I'm against it in principle. Hyping is not just something that happens, hyping is showing your product in a way you know is not true, which is actually a crime in a number of countries (though, apparently, not for the gaming industry).

Then saying the game should be detached from the hype is also true, but it isn't. If the game had not been hyped, do you think it would have got the scores it has got on those gaming sites? Are you kidding me?

And I accuse some here having lost contact with reality by insulting sites that give Oblivion high ratings. They even go so far to say that Bethesda has paid them for rating the game high. This sounds like a conspiracy theory to justify your own standpoint.

What Llamagod says is true. RPGDot may not be big enough for it, but no major gaming site ever pisses of a major publisher. Ever. Goodbye interviews, goodbye exclusive content, we dared call their baby bad.

Heh, journalistic integrity.

You may like or dislike this game. Who cares. But calling others paid idiots and things like that... nah.

Isn't that exactly what Oblivion fans are doing to this site?

I know that those I address will fail to see my point. As I said: the hardest part of being wrong is to admit that one is wrong.

You make the assumption that the Codex is wrong, based on what, exactly?

It's 1:30am here. I'll take a nap. Have a nice day.

GMT +1?

 

[The Innovator of Pain]

Don't give me that. You fucked up the sentence, then tried to blame me for my reading comprehension. I don't give a shit about typos or misspelled words, but the original paragraph as you had it made NO sense. Accept you made an error, clarify what you meant, and there's no problem. Acting like a prick will get you nowhere.

That's odd. I seem to recall your first post being little more than a flame-filled lovefest. I also seem to recall you whining about my English.

But I'm the prick.

Obviously.

Hype is an essential part of marketing. It's presenting a product's features in the best light for the purposes of generating excitement and interest. Every single publisher does it, so there's no point in attacking Bethesda for being particularly successful at it.

No, but just because everyone does it is no reason to leave Bethesda alone. I loathe any publisher that hypes, Bethesda is just one of them. What makes you think I'm singling them out? Because they lied more? Well, that might be true.

You are telling me they have done none of the above, but who are you? Some University kid? Why should I believe you over respected reviewers and journalists that have been in the industry for years?

Actually, those respected reviewers and journalists would be the sources I'm getting that from. Check any of the major gaming sites. They walk right over the flaws, but they point them out.

IGN is the best current example. They're asslickers, sure, but even they can't manage to lie about this with a straight face. They're pointing out flaws. Flaws that are there. Hence a perfect score is unwarranted. Is this logic you wish to refute somehow? Go ahead.

I haven't played Oblivion, so I don't know how bad these perceived flaws are.

...

What?

Oooh, good one there, you almost pissed me off.

You are trolling, right? Tell me you're trolling, because you can't be serious.

You come in here, raging and storming that we dare to judge before playing it, and you haven't played it yourself?

You just lost all credibility. All footing. Why the hell are you even here? To defend a game you haven't played against unjust judgements from people that have actually played it?

By the way, 10 out of 10 doesn't mean flawless, nor does it mean perfection. The fact that I'm even pointing this out to you shows that you frankly don't have much of a clue. Flawlessness and perfection can never be obtained, so what would be the point in even having a "10" score? Why not go 1-9? Oh, but then a 9 would have to be utter perfection, so why not go 1-8? And so on.

*rolls eyes*

10 does mean perfection. It's called scale. 1 is the imperfect, 10 is perfect. No, not "in existence". Everything in between is neither imperfect nor perfect. That's exactly how scaling works.

10 is hypothetical. For a good reason. They're now stuck. What will they do when a better game comes along? 10+? See the problem with your reasoning.

What a 10 means is that the reviewer feels the game is perhaps the best in its genre, a real candidate for Game of the Year, and probably at least a 95 on the percentage scale.

95 would be 9.5, not 10 (presuming 0 to 10, not 1 to 10). Well done, chuckles.

Look, you obviously haven't got a terrific grasp of English. You are, in fact, making yourself look like a buffoon.

Hahahaha. I love it. You do realise I have worked as an English teacher, right?

I'll leave it there.

No, you won't. You accused this place of judging before playing. So I ask you again, real friendly like, to give me an example of it judging without playing. Try the General RPG section. But what's that? Reviews from people who've played the game, unlike you.

Your attempt at side-stepping is weak at best. I suggest you leave before you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot.

At least play the game before returning.

For fuck's sake, Kharn, I am beginning to pity you.

RE: Bethesda lying - where? You're telling me one thing, but I've seen respected sites say quite another.

Like I said, having flaws does not equal a game not warranting a top score. Every game has flaws, but it's the extent of those flaws that impact on whether it affects the score. It's all relative.

RE: 10 meaning perfection - Just shut up. I mean seriously. By your reasoning, modern games should be scoring 560% because they are that much better than games reviewed 15 years ago.

If you're only using a scale of 1-9, how do you rate a game that's much better than a game that scored a 9 three years ago?

Get some perspective.

As for 9.5 on a percentage scale, that'd be one shitty game. For fuck's sake, learn numeracy as well as literacy.

You were an English teacher? I assume English isn't your first language and you were actually tutoring eight year-old Albanian kids to fund your University degree? Otherwise, that's fucking scary.

Now go and study, improve your education, and stop worrying about making yourself look like an idiot in front of your betters on an internet forum. It's for your own good.

Goodnight.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Take it easy, folks. Being wrong isn't as bad as not admitting to be wrong.

Who's wrong? everything we said right through development came to be true.

 

[Brother None]

For fuck's sake, Kharn, I am beginning to pity you.

Hmmm. Yes. People often hide behind insults when they find their arguments to be flawed. Thanks for being predictable.

Bethesda lying - where? You're telling me one thing, but I've seen respected sites say quite another

No you don't, the sites just don't come out and say it. Where are the promised graphics? Why doesn't Oblivion look like its screenshots when played on the XBox? Where the hell is the awesome Radiant AI?

RE: 10 meaning perfection - Just shut up. I mean seriously.

Really? You mean seriously? Wow. Should I now say "Don't go there, girlfriend", or something?

By your reasoning, modern games should be scoring 560% because they are that much better than games reviewed 15 years ago.

Modern games aren't better than games reviewed 15 years ago. What gave you that idea?

If you're only using a scale of 1-9, how do you rate a game that's much better than a game that scored a 9 three years ago?

I don't scale 1-9, but that said, the phrase "better in its time" comes to mind. There's no absolute better or worse, I don't expect the same graphics now as I did 2 years ago (though, apparently, those respected gaming sites do)

Get some perspective.

Kettle, you're a nigger.

As for 9.5 on a percentage scale, that'd be one shitty game. For fuck's sake, learn numeracy as well as literacy.

9.5 on a 1 to 10 scale equals 95 on a percentage scale. You'll find that's actually what I said, if you had any basic reading comprehension.

You were an English teacher? I assume English isn't your first language and you were actually tutoring eight year-old Albanian kids to fund your University degree? Otherwise, that's fucking scary.

Heh, more personal jabs to hide behind? Your weakness is glaring as the sun.

Now go and study, improve your education, and stop worrying about making yourself look like an idiot in front of your betters on an internet forum. It's for your own good.

Better? You now declare yourself my better, "the winner", I made myself look like an idiot?

You have yet to address the point that you have yet to play this game.

You have yet to point out where RPGCodex goes over the line of criticising without playing.

In fact, you have yet to make one argument that is still standing. Yet obviously I've made myself look like an idiot. You tell me to get an education when you don't even understand how to construct a logical argument and defend it?

I would be insulted, but I have no reason to esteem you high enough to actually be insulted by you. Nice try, though, it's kind of cute in an endearing way. The more insults you hurl, the more your being wrong reveals itself. Well done, I don't even have to do any hard work.

 

[kingcomrade]

By your reasoning, modern games should be scoring 560% because they are that much better than games reviewed 15 years ago.


Modern games aren't better than games reviewed 15 years ago. What gave you that idea?

Yeah, I have to second this. I play old games a lot more than I play new ones. Why? Because they are better. Doom is better than every single other first-person shooter that I've played, and it was one of the first. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 is one of the best platformers ever. Fallout, which I think after almost 10 years counts as an old game, is still the best RPG ever made.

 

[The Innovator of Pain]

I am going to adress one interesting point that has been made here: "We hate Oblivion because of the hype".

That may well be. But: You don't rate a game based on the hype. You rate a game based on the game. Hype is PR bullshit and part of marketing. A game is a game.

This may be true, but I'm against it in principle. Hyping is not just something that happens, hyping is showing your product in a way you know is not true, which is actually a crime in a number of countries (though, apparently, not for the gaming industry).

Then saying the game should be detached from the hype is also true, but it isn't. If the game had not been hyped, do you think it would have got the scores it has got on those gaming sites? Are you kidding me?

And I accuse some here having lost contact with reality by insulting sites that give Oblivion high ratings. They even go so far to say that Bethesda has paid them for rating the game high. This sounds like a conspiracy theory to justify your own standpoint.

What Llamagod says is true. RPGDot may not be big enough for it, but no major gaming site ever pisses of a major publisher. Ever. Goodbye interviews, goodbye exclusive content, we dared call their baby bad.

Heh, journalistic integrity.

You may like or dislike this game. Who cares. But calling others paid idiots and things like that... nah.

Isn't that exactly what Oblivion fans are doing to this site?

I know that those I address will fail to see my point. As I said: the hardest part of being wrong is to admit that one is wrong.

You make the assumption that the Codex is wrong, based on what, exactly?

It's 1:30am here. I'll take a nap. Have a nice day.

GMT +1?

Hang on, just saw this post. I'm going to be civil, because I'm not one to kick a wounded dog.

Your comments regarding hype are just nonsense. Hype does not equal lying. Like I've said, it's presenting a game in the best possible light. You might be against it, but if you ever work in the gaming industry and your mortgage repayments hinge on how well your product is going to do, you'll be grateful for all the publicity you get. Hype is a part of commerce - deal with it. The amount of hype should have no bearing when it comes to judging a game.


Eurogamer recently gave several EA XBOX 360 games scores ranging from 1-3. Do you think they'd give a company like Bethesda a 10 to curry favour? Personally, I think there are some websites which have little to no journalistic integrity, but when a game is getting 10s across the board. . .

Rendelius is correct. Some of you guys are losing touch with reality.

 

[Temoid]

Ladies and gents, please welcome our newest dumbfuck!

 

[Brother None]

Hang on, just saw this post. I'm going to be civil, because I'm not one to kick a wounded dog.

Because obviously I have been wounded beyond repair.

Man, you suck at this whole internet thing, don't you?

Your comments regarding hype are just nonsense. Hype does not equal lying

By definition? Perhaps not. It does mean misrepresentation by definition, though, and gross misrepresentation counts as lying in my book.

Like I've said, it's presenting a game in the best possible light.

By, for instance, promising features it won't have or that will be half-heartedly applied. Like, oh, say, 3rd person view in Oblivion.

You might be against it, but if you ever work in the gaming industry and your mortgage repayments hinge on how well your product is going to do, you'll be grateful for all the publicity you get. Hype is a part of commerce - deal with it. The amount of hype should have no bearing when it comes to judging a game.

What nonsense. Yes, it is part of the industry, yes, everybody is doing it.

By your logic, that means I should forgive it, just because that's how it is.

How dumb is that? I'll rail against it because it is unjust, pure and simple.

Eurogamer recently gave several EA XBOX 360 games scores ranging from 1-3. Do you think they'd give a company like Bethesda a 10 to curry favour? Personally, I think there are some websites which have little to no journalistic integrity, but when a game is getting 10s across the board. . .

Then obviously the last vestiges of integrity are crumbling.

Oblivion's hype was fairly effective. The gaming sites aren't just suffering from butt-kissing Bethesda, which they are doing, they're also suffering from the two other pains of gaming journalism;

1. Mass-thinking. Bunch of sheep, basically. Everybody says its good. Say it's not, and you look like a dumbass.
2. Admitting you're wrong. They all went along with the hype, won't they look stupid if they now say it sucks?

Rendelius is correct. Some of you guys are losing touch with reality.

Yeah, totally, and I bet we're total losers too. Lol.

 

[The Innovator of Pain]

Ladies and gents, please welcome our newest dumbfuck!

*Bows to the dumbfuck*

Thanks for the introduction!

 

[Brother None]

For fuck's sake, Innovator, do as you said and go away. Either that or actually reply to arguments made.

Or, y'know, actually play the game before coming to its defense.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I am going to adress one interesting point that has been made here: "We hate Oblivion because of the hype".

Actually, I think it's more a matter of hating Oblivion because it's a damned fine example of lowering standards followed by the inevitable "IT'S THE BESTEST THING EVAR!" by a bunch of fucktards. Each iteration of TES has had features yanked from it, yet each one seemingly gets more and more praise.

Furthermore, the new stuff, which was hyped all to hell, is either "nothing much" or doesn't even work right.

That may well be. But: You don't rate a game based on the hype. You rate a game based on the game. Hype is PR bullshit and part of marketing. A game is a game.

Bullshit, Rendelius. If games weren't rated on hype everywhere else, there's no fucking way NWN's campaign would have gotten 9.5-10/10 on pretty much every single site out there. There's no way Dungeon Siege would have gotten anywhere near the scores it got, either. And finally, there's no justification for the scores Oblivion's getting currently - except for TEH HYPE.

You may like or dislike this game. Who cares. But calling others paid idiots and things like that... nah.

When you say Oblivion delivers on all it's promises, like that one review says, then you're either an idiot or you're lying.

I know that those I address will fail to see my point. As I said: the hardest part of being wrong is to admit that one is wrong.

You mean like you giving a high score to Wizards & Warriors? :D

 

[Claw]

Flawlessness and perfection can never be obtained, so what would be the point in even having a "10" score? Why not go 1-9? Oh, but then a 9 would have to be utter perfection, so why not go 1-8? And so on.

So.. what's your stance on asymptotes, then? After all, what's the point of an unreachable limit?

 

[The Innovator of Pain]

Hang on, just saw this post. I'm going to be civil, because I'm not one to kick a wounded dog.

Because obviously I have been wounded beyond repair.

Man, you suck at this whole internet thing, don't you?

No. But this kind of thing brings home the reality of the situation, which is that this board is comprised mostly of nerds and RPG geeks with negligible social lives who CRASH INTO EACH OTHER JUST SO THEY CAN FEEL SOMETHING!

So I'll just address the points.

Your comments regarding hype are just nonsense. Hype does not equal lying

By definition? Perhaps not. It does mean misrepresentation by definition, though, and gross misrepresentation counts as lying in my book.

Like I've said, it's presenting a game in the best possible light.

By, for instance, promising features it won't have or that will be half-heartedly applied. Like, oh, say, 3rd person view in Oblivion.

Well, you've just admitted that by definition it's not lying. Sure, it's not a particularly noble practice to overhype this or that feature, but honestly, what are you gonna do? You don't have to like it, and I'm sure at some point your youthful idealism is going to give way to the reality that this is how the world runs.

You can't, as a reviewer, "punish" a game to a degree proportionate to the amount of hype it received. You can see through the hype and rate it on its own merits, which is what the more reputable sites do. In this instance, they appear to feel the hype was largely justified, and the flaws don't matter nearly as much as a few holdouts on the Codex think they do.

What else do you want me to say, or answer? I haven't played it, no, but it's obvious most of the vitriol spewed on here is unwarranted. Given all the evidence I have that the game is in fact great, and the Codex's past record of villianizing games that were actually pretty fucking good, what should I think?

You might be against it, but if you ever work in the gaming industry and your mortgage repayments hinge on how well your product is going to do, you'll be grateful for all the publicity you get. Hype is a part of commerce - deal with it. The amount of hype should have no bearing when it comes to judging a game.

What nonsense. Yes, it is part of the industry, yes, everybody is doing it.

By your logic, that means I should forgive it, just because that's how it is.

How dumb is that? I'll rail against it because it is unjust, pure and simple.

It's not unust. Jesus, anyone who can't see past hyperbole to determine if a game "is really all that" deserves to be sold shit on a stick. There's plenty in this world that's unjust, and hyping up a product ain't one of them.

Eurogamer recently gave several EA XBOX 360 games scores ranging from 1-3. Do you think they'd give a company like Bethesda a 10 to curry favour? Personally, I think there are some websites which have little to no journalistic integrity, but when a game is getting 10s across the board. . .

Then obviously the last vestiges of integrity are crumbling.

Oblivion's hype was fairly effective. The gaming sites aren't just suffering from butt-kissing Bethesda, which they are doing, they're also suffering from the two other pains of gaming journalism;

1. Mass-thinking. Bunch of sheep, basically. Everybody says its good. Say it's not, and you look like a dumbass.
2. Admitting you're wrong. They all went along with the hype, won't they look stupid if they now say it sucks?

This is where you're losing touch with reality a little. Bethesda have no particular leverage in the industry to force otherwise honest reviewers to give out false scores.

Sure, a lot of (perhaps the majority) of gaming sites and magazines are full of BS, IGN the shining example. However, I fail to see why EG would hand out an 8 to Jade Empire and a 10 to Oblivion. They weren't caught up in Bio's hype, so why should they be caught up in Bethesda's?

You sitting there and accusing them of losing their integrity is ridiculous and an overreaction. Simple as that. There's no evidence or consensus anywhere on the net, apart from at the Codex, that Oblivion is a bad game. And Codex's opinion of what is a good game excludes anything that ain't Fallout or some bugged Troika piece of crap.

The views expressed on this website aren't given much credibility anywhere else on the Net for a very good reason. . . and you all know that.

 

[Brother None]

No. But this kind of thing brings home the reality of the situation, which is that this board is comprised mostly of nerds and RPG geeks with negligible social lives who CRASH INTO OTHER JUST SO THEY CAN FEEL SOMETHING!

Heh, funny how I predicted you'd say that two posts up from here.

Man, you are predictable.

Well, you've just admitted that by definition it's not lying.

No, I've admitted it's not lying by definition, not that it's by definition not lying. There's a difference.

Sure, it's not a particularly noble practice to overhype this or that feature, but honestly, what are you gonna do? You don't have to like it, and I'm sure at some point your youthful idealism is going to give way to the reality that this is how the world runs.

Your assumptions amuse me.

That said, I'm glad you're willing to roll over and die. Have fun doing it. Does that actually counter my argument? Lemme check...no.

You can't, as a reviewer, "punish" a game to a degree proportionate to the amount of hype it received

No, but you could look at the promises made and how many of them were fulfilled.

What else do you want me to say, or answer? I haven't played it, no, but it's obvious most of the vitriol spewed on here is unwarranted.

Yes, you're the one who hasn't played it but obviously the vitriol *here* is unwarranted.

Is there any way you could possibly sound more stupid?

Go the the General RPG forum, you will read reviews. Reviews by people who've actually played the game. Reviews by people who have the right to call your stance unwarranted since you have no actual experience playing the game.

Given all the evidence I have that the game is in fact great, and the Codex's past record of villianizing games that were actually pretty fucking good, what should I think?

I don't know, maybe you should play the game and think for yourself before coming in here accusing us of prejudice?

It's not unust. Jesus, anyone who can't see past hyperbole to determine if a game "is really all that" deserves to be sold shit on a stick.

Really? It seems to be fooling you. You haven't played it but already you've decided RPGCodex is wrong based on...hype? Well done proving yourself wrong.

This is where you're losing touch with reality a little. Bethesda have no particular leverage in the industry to force otherwise honest reviewers to give out false scores.

No? Obviously you've never dealt with developers or, even worse, PR people. Try insulting them and then getting anything from them. It doesn't work.

However, I fail to see why EG would hand out an 8 to Jade Empire and a 10 to Oblivion. They weren't caught up in Bio's hype, so why should they be caught up in Bethesda's?

Because everyone else is?

Or perhaps because they genuinely liked it. Possible.

You sitting there and accusing them of losing their integrity is ridiculous and an overreaction. Simple as that. There's no evidence or consensus anywhere on the net, apart from at the Codex, that Oblivion is a bad game.

Really? You base this on your extensive research?

Burden of evidence. Prove it.

 

[The Innovator of Pain]

Flawlessness and perfection can never be obtained, so what would be the point in even having a "10" score? Why not go 1-9? Oh, but then a 9 would have to be utter perfection, so why not go 1-8? And so on.

So.. what's your stance on asymptotes, then? After all, what's the point of an unreachable limit?

There's no point to the unreachable limit, which was my point. Those who say a 10 should never be achievable because it represents perfection are incorrect, in my opinion, and in the opinion of virtually ALL professional reviewers. In reality, it simply needs to be the best in its genre at the time it is released. And closer to a 10 than a 9.

As for games being released 15 years ago being better than today's games. . . no. I've been playing games for almost 20 years, and that simply isn't true. Wanna know what would happen if Street Fighter II was released for the PS2 today?

The magazines would say, "Shit, this fucking game looks like a 15-year old SNES game, it's as slow as hell, and the publisher must be fucking crazy to release it."

25% - Crap.

 

[kingcomrade]

Yeah, Street Fighter II has really crappy graphics, it's a terrible game.

The magazines would most likely say that because video game 'journalism' is full of shit. I think several people have articulated this to you, right before it rebounded off your rock-hard skull.

 

[The Innovator of Pain]

Yeah, Street Fighter II has really crappy graphics, it's a terrible game.

The magazines would most likely say that because video game 'journalism' is full of shit. I think several people have articulated this to you, right before it rebounded off your rock-hard skull.

Jesus, you are as thick as shit.

Well done.

 

[kingcomrade]

omg ur stupdi lol!!!

 

[DarkUnderlord]

The attitude of some folks here remind me of an old joke:

The police car gets a call on the radio:
"Folks, we got a report about someone driving in the wrong direction on the highway. Could you check?"
The officer replies:
"One? One? You must be kidding - thousands of them!"

I think your version of the joke fails because you use a police officer (it took me personally a while to recognise what joke you were making). The expectation is that the police officer would know what he's doing. A better rendition:

A man is driving on the highway when his wife calls him on his cell phone.

"Honey, be careful. I heard on the news that there is a car on the road driving the wrong way."

To this the man replies, "One? There's millions of 'em!"

Take it easy, folks. Being wrong isn't as bad as not admitting to be wrong. Yes, Oblivion has flaws, but the package as a whole is convincingly good, in my humble opinion. Allow yourself to like it.

Again, who here isn't allowing themselves to like it? The point we keep making is that Oblivion would have such advanced AI that people would be setting their dogs on fire and doing archery. Apparently, all they do is stand around and watch at you. We were told the dialogue would be much improved over Morrowind. Instead, we've got a font that can be seen from space and apparently poor writing. We were told about the awesome conversations the NPCs would have with each other only to find out that they suck. The graphics were supposed to be awesome on a level never seen before and all those "Russian Screenshots" were made with a poor unoptimized build... Only to find out that that's the same game everyone ends up seeing.

Although it's a staggering-looking game, nothing's perfect. Oblivion is a little heavy-handed on the bloom effect, which tends to underline the fact that the game's faces are decidedly on the ugly side. If you're really picky, you'll notice characters can't always move around each other and end up nudging each other with an unrealistic sliding motion. But out of doors it's nothing short of stunning. Oblivion shows off the 360's potential in a way that no other game has done.

This comes at a price -- all that complexity pushes the 360 a little hard on occasion. As scenery comes into view, it tends to "pop" into existence rather than fade in smoothly. Framerate issues are pretty standard for most outdoor Oblivion excursions, too. It's nowhere near the issue it would be with a first-person shooter or other pure action game, and as most combat takes place underground or indoors, you shouldn't have too much trouble dismissing it. We certainly didn't.

In short, there's very little not to like about it. Some of the graphical choices rub us the wrong way. Sure, it's essentially a polished version of Morrowind with a better graphics engine and a different plot. But the painstaking attention to detail, outstanding worldcrafting, and inspired AI make it a huge improvement; and there wasn't all that much wrong with Morrowind to begin with.

Result: 5 out of 5. I highlighted that last bit because I think everyone knows what the Codex Hive Mind is of Morrowind. I think there's even a comment that Oblivion would be more than Morrowind. All along I know I've expected Morrowind + 1. There's nothing "wrong" with that but again, Morrowind isn't "the world's greatest RPG".

At the essence of the complaints against Oblivion are two things:

1. Failure to match expectations (the hype).
   
   A lot of complaints have been made that Oblivion doesn't look, doesn't have or isn't what was said it would be. Not that it's not a fun game but that people were expecting something else because of what the developers said.
   
2. Oblivion's failure as an RPG.
   
   No real choice and consequence. Poor writing. Lack of response to becoming Guild Master (again).

Only a handful of people are saying "OMG U ALL SUCK OBLIVION SUCKS" and those people are either being sarcastic because they're sick of all the "OMG OBLIVION IS GREAT AND U ALL HAVEN'T PLAYED IT" or in rare cases, they're idiots.

You and the rest of this pathetic clique of "hardcore, savy gamers" have been holding your own little orgy of hatred against Bethesda ever since the reviews started rolling in. I bet most of you haven't even played the damn game. . .

Have you played it? Have you? Huh? Have you? Come on, let us know!

I repeat: most of the bitchers here haven't played the game.

"Bitchers" (people who find fault with Oblivion) who have played the game:

• suibhne
  
  

  I picked it up the other day, and I was particularly relishing the thought of coming here in full fanboi regalia and telling you all that you missed the second coming of the RPG Christ - that you're all 100% wrong about Oblivion, and that history will not judge kindly your shallow oldsk00l prejudices.
  
  Only problem is, I'd be full of field-ripe feces.

• jplestat
  
  

  I actually really realy disliked Oblivion in the first hour.
  The beginning is really quite terrible and boring.
  The interface sucks.
  All that said, the more I play it the more and more I like it.

  What, someone who can "bitch" about parts yet like the game overall? The mind boggles. I thought these people were supposed to be all mindless bitchers who hadn't played the game!
  
• Klinn
  
  

  Oblivion is Morrowind, only more so. Really, it doesn’t feel like a huge advance, just more of the same. But from my perspective that’s not an altogether bad thing.

  Look ma! Another one!
  
• Mr. Teatime
  
  

  Has anyone else noticed the stupidity of the game's difficulty, or more specifically, levelling system? You can complete the game at level 1 with the rusty sword you find in the tutorial dungeon.

  What, someone else who's played the game and is critiscising it? THE HORROR!
  
• Quigs
  
  

  Played it for a good 5-6 hours last night. Damn fine game.
  Complaints: Light, Shadows, The compass, Faces, Clipping, Eyes, Spotty Psuedo AI, Conversation mini game.
  Praises: The length of Dungeons, Inventory/map interface, Fight system, Marksman system.

  Anyone remember how good the graphics in Oblivion were supposed to be? Anyone?
  
• Data4
  
  

  For all the hype over soil erosion, I'm just not seeing much of an improvement over Morrowind's terrain.

  Hype? What hype? You mean there was hype?

All found on these very forums. It's amazing what you find when you pull your head out of your arse long enough to take a look around. All of them have played the game and all of them have found quite a few things in Oblivion to "bitch" about. They must be wrong though because Oblivion is perfect and has no problems, right?

I haven't played Oblivion

Oh, looks like you're a (what's the opposite of bitcher?) who's never played the game. That makes you better than the people who have played it and are bitching, does it? Because not playing it and praising it is always a much cooler thing to admit, right?

"I haven't registered on any Oblivion or gaming site forum for the express purpose of telling them they should all shut the hell up or to tell them they have been having a little orgy of loving for Bethesda ever since the reviews started rolling in. It might be true, but I'm not."

Don't give me that. You fucked up the sentence

Ermm... What did you think he meant? I'm really interested to know here. You seem to be the only one who's failed to understand what he meant. That is, he's not the one who hasn't played the game posting on another forum he's never been at before telling them they should shut up.

That's exactly what you're doing though... and remember, you haven't even played the game!

Oblivion is overhyped? Get this - that means the publisher was successful in promoting their product. If you're saying the game is overrated, now that's another thing entirely. You don't "punish" hype: It's just a means through which a product gets noticed.

Hype: To publicize or promote, especially by extravagant, inflated, or misleading claims

Why shouldn't we punish the misleading claims about Oblivion? Why does Bethesda earn respect and a "get out of critiscism free" card? They made claims and showed video that set Oblivion up to be something more than what it apparently is. Why shouldn't we hold them to account for that? They apparently promised that NPCs would buy and sell items and that RAI would truly be something to see as people set their dogs on fire yet none of that has made it into the game.

As it happens, Oblivion seems to be living up to the hype.

Wait, I thought you said there was on hype? That hype was simply publicity and there were no expectations to meet? Are you reading the same forums I am? In amongst the usual praise of "Best game ever I've wet my pants" and the standard "This game sucks I hate you all", there are quite a few "I'm enjoying it but it doesn't match the hype".

Hang on, just saw this post. I'm going to be civil, because I'm not one to kick a wounded dog.

Why do you keep kicking yourself then?

There's no evidence or consensus anywhere on the net, apart from at the Codex, that Oblivion is a bad game.

If you'd actually read any of the threads, you'd realise a number of people are saying Oblivion is perfectly fine as a game.

 

[Claw]

There's no point to the unreachable limit, which was my point.

You are truly innovative. I couldn't even imagine such a degree of ignorance until now. Go attend highschool or something.