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Myth and Warhammer RTS's (and bullshit)

Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
1,060
Location
Poland
Couple of days ago I was bored and decided to play Warhammer games again, Well, PLAY Dark Omen and TRY TO PLAY "Shadow of the Evil Developers Who Made Game Faithfully Based on System That Apperantly Suck Balls" (TM). Good news were that I have a Win 98 PC with old geforce which is capable of running Dark Omen with 3d Acceleration without any problems. I finished Dark Omen for the second time in my life and I had great time. I wouldn't call Dark Omen easy, but it also not fucking unfair, I had to redo couple of mission 3 or 4 times, but that was mostly because I screwed something up (shooting my own units with mortar or teleporting Bright Mage straight into enemy formation, or shit like that). Then I decided, I'm fucking ready to, once again, gaze at... Shadow of the Horned Rat *dramatic music*.

First playthrough of SotHR immidiately went to shit because I forget to hire crossbowman's *derpmatic music*
Orc Pursuit mission, no ranged units HOW THE HELL I'M SUPPOSED TO DO THAT? *looking at walkthrough*
"Place your crossbows at..." WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!

Ok, so I started again and actually did pretty well (and hired crossbows) until fucking March to Zhufbar mission. I did this mission once but I don't remember how. So I looked in walkthrough and apperantly only units that can kill Goblin Shaman flying on some green shit that scares everyone is Amber Wizard. The problem is, he must kill it with Amber Lance spell, and motherfucker can't cast it. Well he can, in theory, but in practice yesterday I tried this mission 15 (fifteen!) times, and he fucker failed to cast it EVERY FUCKING TIME. He failed more than 15 times, because before Goblin shaman get's near usually you will have enough mana to cast it twice (or fail to cast it... twice).

I mean what the fuck. I understand that that units gain experience with kills and I should grind exp for Amber Wizard, but how I'm supposed to do that in ridiculously hard game without ability to save during battle? Amber Lance in his only offensive spell and it's also spell which he is most likely to fuck up. He don't have much problem with casting spell that slows down enemy regiments, and this spell is VERY useful, but it doesn't kill anyone, so he don't get any experience. And now I'm stuck in a mission in which I HAVE to kill shaman with amber lance, but apperantly I will have to try million times before Allor will not FAIL to do his fucking job. And even if he manage to cast amber lance, and somehow kill the shaman I still can loose this fucking battle because combat system is WARHAMMER: RANDOM (TM) or Game Workshop: Flip a Coing to see who will Win.

And I'm not kidding about random fucking battle system. My full Grudgebringers Cavalery regiment was routed couple of times by fucking goblin stickers. And they were not charged from the back or anything. In fact THEY were the one who charged, and then they were routed in straight fucking melee. And don't give me shit about Cavalry vs Spears (if the Goblin sticker's are actually spearman) because my infantry also was routed by them couple of times. Fact that it work's both ways (badly beaten infantry routing fresh Stormvermins) doesn't make it any better. And I don't thing that SotHR developers should be blamed for this, because it's apperantly normal in fucking Warhammer.

So I asked myself "WHY AM I DOING THIS SHIT?!, WHY WON'T I PLAY RTS* THAT IS LESS FRUSTRATING BUT EQUALLY AWESOME?... like... like MYTH!"

And so I installed The Fallen Lords, decided that gods hates my anyway so I will play it on Legendary, fuck it, come at me Balor! And now I'm at 11th or 12th mission (mission in which you have to find Watcher's arm). I had to reload game fuckton of times, I probably reloaded more times than I restarted mission's in SotHR, but again, mostly because my own mistakes. There are some random element's in Myth, but mostly they come down to rain putting down fuses in Dwarf's molotov coctails, that can screw you over but couple of molotov's won't win or loose you a mission. Also sometimes retarted AI decides that it would be good idea for your dwarf to throw granade in the middle of your warriors group because one Thrall atacked them, but one molotov won't kill all you'r troops, and worst that could happen is you loosing some veterans (sucks, but you will be given fresh troops in next mission so it won't fuck up whole campaign) And even this can be avoided by carefully managing your more devastating troops, which is not that hard because Myth doesn't have abominable interface like, I don't know... Shadow of the fucking Horned Rat.

Ok, I stopped ranting. I love Myth games more than Dark Omen and SotHR, but I actually dig controlling regiments instead of individual units and I think that this whole managing mercenary army in Warhammer games is best thing since bombing of Dresden. But I can't find a way to make Amber Wizard to not suck balls, and this fucker is essential to play this game (not to finish it though, only thing that would help you in finishing this fucking thing is divine intervention). So halp me kodx, pls, how do I paly dis? how to make Allor a Amber Wizard for all other Amber Wizards to look up to?


* Myth is Skirmish game not Strategy (in b4 Awor)
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
1,060
Location
Poland
I don't know much about Halo games, played first one, didn't liked it at all so I never bothered with the rest of the series. But even if they suck balls even more, and Halo is bringer of decline Bungie still have unlimited bro-credit with me. I mean come on, they shipped Myth 2 with bug that formated your hard drive (hilarious bug to be honest) and this was a time before system of transporting internets via adamantium buckets carried by chaos steeds was invented so they payed people to go to every video game shop and change game cd's to un-bugged ones, and that costed more than Myth 2 development. And then they gave source codes of both Fallen Lords and Soulblighter to ProjectMagma group so they could continue working on it when Bungie couldn't do it anymore (and thanks to this now have patches that makes both Myth games working on modern machines, and openGL support!).

SoTHR campaign update: Allor stoped faling to cast HUNTING SPEAR (not Amber Lance you bucket of disturbing imagery!) but it didn't change much. Spear doesn't kill Shaman until he comes down to charge my units (and route all of them straight away). Is anyone interested in LP that will surely end in terrible disaster?
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
They aren't Real Time Strategy games.

Myth is a skirmish game and Warhammers are tactical games.
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
4,338
Location
Bureaukratistan
My friend and I started to co-op SotHR, ps one version. Holy hell the controls are complicated :lol: An excellent game, the design is simply cool and I would like to see nothing more than another in it's and Dark Omen's style. I dig the music enormously too, one of the perks of the ps version is the better quality music.

Incidentally we were talking about playing the Myth games next. I guess the release of HotS is making people think "how about play a bit better strategy games".
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
1,060
Location
Poland
If anyone is interested I started SotHR Lp in codex playground, unfortunately Grudgebringer Cav is the only unit you can name so no codex regiments this time. Maybe if I'm not steaming pile of shit at let's playing I will do Myth LP after I will finally fuck-snap and retire SotHR campaign. You can name every unit in Myth so it would be great for codexers genocide.
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,732
How would you play it without showing actual competency? It was famous for being about as difficult as real tourneys.

Also they wrote, it should be hit by amber lance, because it's easier when you would hit it with amber lance, not because you must hit it with amber lance.

Also when competent see a unit of crossbowmen for hire, they are finally crossbowmen, or some other ranged unit, things would be bad with only infantry... You didn't bother...
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
1,060
Location
Poland
How would you play it without showing actual competency? It was famous for being about as difficult as real tourneys.

Also they wrote, it should be hit by amber lance, because it's easier when you would hit it with amber lance, not because you must hit it with amber lance.

Also when competent see a unit of crossbowmen for hire, they are finally crossbowmen, or some other ranged unit, things would be bad with only infantry... You didn't bother...

You will not know about Crossbows being avaible for hire if you won't press "Caravan" button and check troop roster DURING Escort To Holst mission, And you have absolutely no reason to do that (other than to save game, but even then you don't have to check roster to save game), and they are not avaible later.

Also I don't see any other way to kill flying shaman than Hunting Spear. Melee units rout as soon as he gets near them and crossbows can't fire at him until he lower his flight (and he does it only when he's charging, and that's way too late to save this battle). And my lack of competency never stopped me from doing anything to be honest.
 

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,549
I really liked Myth 2 from the little I played, especially the atmosphere.

What the fuck happened to Bungie?

Was doing well until the late 90's. Then they created a second studio, which apparently was a mess - shipped it's one project (Oni) a year or two late, and the lead on the project left (was most likely canned) halfway through. Shortly after that, they shipped Myth II with a horrible bug, and lost a lot of money having to replace CD's in boxes that were already sent to stores. So by the late 90's they were hemorrhaging money, and the next game that was supposed to provide them with money (Oni) was going nowhere fast. They got desperate, partnered with Take Two, started selling bundle after bundle of their own games.

MS finally swooped in and bought them, and I'm sure by then they were just relieved that someone did. MS turned Halo from a 3rd person game about guerilla warfare and a crazed AI with delusions of godhood into an AWESOME console FPS. The rest is history.

Their old games are all worth playing. Pathways into Darkness, Marathon, Myth. If Phelot ever returns he needs to do that Pathways LP.
 

Misconnected

Savant
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
587
You will not know about Crossbows being avaible for hire if you won't press "Caravan" button and check troop roster DURING Escort To Holst mission, And you have absolutely no reason to do that (other than to save game, but even then you don't have to check roster to save game), and they are not avaible later.


Somehow I can't get upset about stuff like that in old games. Incidentally, it's worth exploring everything in the game whenever you get the opportunity. For example, the flavour text may very well give you a better understanding of how to use your units.

Also I don't see any other way to kill flying shaman than Hunting Spear. Melee units rout as soon as he gets near them and crossbows can't fire at him until he lower his flight (and he does it only when he's charging, and that's way too late to save this battle). And my lack of competency never stopped me from doing anything to be honest.

It's been a while, but if memory serves fear only works for voluntary engagements in SoTHR. I doubt you can deliberately fail-charge your way out of the fear test, but I'm 95% certain no fear test gets rolled if the unit makes a pursuit move into melee.

The shaman & steed in question can definitely be killed by both melee and missile units. The problem is you can't afford to risk the units fleeing the field (or worse). Which leaves your wizzer the only good weapon against him.

Anyway, if you think you're getting random ass-kickings, just wait to you meet & feed Mr. Squig Hopper. Those fuckers really are random & can totally annihilate you at the whim of the dice gods. And if you think the missions are just plain unfair, you'd better brace yourself - it's only going to get worse.

Thing is, the missions are all both puzzles and straight up fights against overwhelming odds. There's only as much as a handful of right ways to beat each one, and even after you've nailed the how, you'll likely need several practise runs to nail the timing.
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,732
Just you wait until you seen rat ogres. Or these rotating...
 

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