Myth: A New Age CYOA

[Nevill]

What chokepoints? It's a courtyard with two door and a tunnel.

That's what the characters know about it. But:

You would attempt to bar the front door to prevent any more from getting inside with you but it would take time and you would have to do it while fighting the ones that are already inside. And there are other ways out of the building, Derryth and company came through one, there is however only one way out of the chapel and that is through the barred doors.

"I want to know the floor plan of the building, entrances and exits, chokepoints, all of it."

There is more to it.

If we are fighting them in melee that means they are already inside the courtyard.

No, that means they are about to enter the courtyard. And that is a big difference, as holding the chokepoint or a breach in the wall is easier than allowing the enemy in and then fighting them.

A whole army of poisonous monsters that can climb walls and ceilings.

Not all of them. Since this scenario has such a heavy L4D vibe, I expect these to be somewhat rare.

Defending the courtyard is probably exactly what the defenders tried before. Before they were eaten that is.

Exactly. But they had no military minds, no fighters and zero combat experience. Just remember our skirmish with the Reds.
If you go in underprepared, the story will repeat itself.

If we are planing to slip away than we are voting for the wrong option, that's 3A and nobody is voting for that.

We are planning to thin their ranks significantly before that. We are not going to settle here for life.
1A is us retreating in a hurry, abandoning the wounded and the children alike and hunted by the superior enemy forces. If we break them or chase them away, why would we not run for it?

And why would you prefer mining the tunnel over mining the courtyard? If we mine the courtyard we can take out both them and anyone coming through the gates as well.

The tunnel is a narrow place with the ramp as the only way in serving as a natural chokepoint. They have to pass through the trap to get to us. The courtyard is wide with no bottlenecks. The choice is obvious.

Mining the area the front gates lead to is possible, and we will be doing that, if only we buy ourselves more time.

 

[Zero Credibility]

We can't defend the courtyard and we shouldn’t even try. If we are fighting them in the courtyard that means:

a) the front doors are down - their entire army is swarming through it, some walking, other climbing on the walls. Any fighters (and we have precious few of those) will be overwhelmed in seconds. Our only hope is to retreat behind the second doors and hope those hold.

b) they are coming through the tunnels. See a), only even worse because the tunnel is larger than the doors and they can climb on the ceiling as well. And when they get to the outer gates, game over man, game over. Also, if they are in the tunnels our escape route is already cut off.

Either way, we are fucked if we even try. The best we can hope for is to barricade both doors as best as we can, have our mortar team position so that they can fire at anyone attacking the outer doors (because that's where they will bunch up - just tell them to try not to blow up the doors as well) and mine the courtyard for if when it falls. Archers, mages and grenadiers at the windows, melee fighters acting as mobile reserves fending off climbers at the windows, reinforcing the doors and looking for possible breaches. Defend the inner chapel - that's all we can do because that's all we have the men for. And as plans go it's simple enough for Gareth to organise even during the attack. It's not as if we have so much manpower we don't know what to do with them.

 

[Nevill]

We can't defend the courtyard and we shouldn’t even try. If we are fighting them in the courtyard that means:

For fuck's sake. Do I have to draw pictures?

This is how you think what the fighting for the inner court will look like:

        MMMMMMMMM
         MMM MMM
========F. Gate======================
|| @     MMMMM    @   W  ||  chapel ||MMM
||         Dorf MMM      ||       W == MMM
||   @   MMM @       MM I.Gate      ||MMMM
||          W MMMM       ||       W == MMM
|| (Ramp)      MM MMMM   ||   @     ||MM
=================XX==================
             secret exit
              MMMMMMMMM

And it very well might happen if we let everyone do as they want.

This is what I picture:

        MMMMMMMMM
         MMM MMM
========F. Gate======================
||       @ @ @           ||  chapel ||MMM
||         Dorf  W       ||       W == MMM
||                      I.Gate      ||MMMM
||          W    Dorf    ||       W == MMM
|| (Ramp)       @  @     ||         ||MM
=================XX==================
             secret exit
              MMMMMMMMM

And as plans go it's simple enough for Gareth to organise even during the attack. It's not as if we have so much manpower we don't know what to do with them.

Right now everyone is listening to him because no one else knows what to do. If he does not assert his authority now and does not show them he has a plan, everyone will follow their own leaders, I'm afraid.

 

[Zero Credibility]

I could have told you not to bother with pictures. I think it's an insane plan to put the few fighters we have right into the way of an entire army if we can avoid it at all. Even more insane if part of that army can just climb on walls and jump behind the fighters. Fuck the courtyard, it's a death trap. You know what is worse than fighting a horde of mindless enemies? Fighting a horde of mindless enemies lead by someone intelligent, that's what. Take them out now and we might at least have a chance.

 

[Nevill]

Even more insane if part of that army can just climb on walls and jump behind the fighters.

It's a building, no? It should have a ceiling and everything. At least, that is what I thought when I read the description. It's not like they have to go through different chokepoints to get in, and our mages can entangle their legs and bring them down.

It's worth a try.

I think it's an insane plan to put the few fighters we have right into the way of an entire army if we can avoid it at all.

You know what is worse than fighting a horde of mindless enemies? Fighting a horde of mindless enemies lead by someone intelligent, that's what.

That's Myth for you. A dozen or so of brave souls holding off hundreds through cunning and superior tactics.

It won the wars before.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Here's the scenario I'm afraid off. You have our fighters swinging at the enemy as they come through the doors / tunnel. Meanwhile, while they are busy some of the climbers climb right through the doors instead of waiting their turn to walk in and get cut down, on to the wall and finally ceiling, bypassing them completely. Sure, you have our ranged troops backing the fighters and taking them down. But ammo runs out. People miss. Fighters tire and get wounded. And the enemy keeps coming. At some point someone slips by and now you have our men surrounded. And given how fast these things are, chances are once that happens nobody will make it to the inner doors. TPK - we have just lost a significant part of our fighting force and shattered the morale of our remaining men. Even if our fighters take 10 or 20 of them for everyone of ours, it's still a victory for them because we can't spare those fighters.

No, if there is going to be any desperate melee fight, let it be at the point where we don't have any other choice - at the inner doors if they get breached or some other possible entry point to the chapel we may have overlooked. But before that happens we need to make them pay as dearly as we can, with arrows, spells, flame and explosives - only then will we have a chance of holding them in melee. The fact that we are in a fortress is our one big advantage and we need to use it as long as we can before we commit to fighting them hand to hand.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Oh, and I just noticed that on your pictures you have marked a secret exit. Which we have no idea it even exist. Or am I missing something in the updates? And even if it did exist, nobody would put it in the bloody courtyard. It would always be in the place where you would make your last stand, always. Otherwise, what would be the point of a secret exit in a fortress that you can't actually use if you are under attack and need to escape? That's about as useful as a rubber hammer. If there are any secret exits here (and that's an if), it's located in the chapel (and the reason why they haven't used it yet would be because they don't want to leave their bloody relics).

 

[Nevill]

Okay.

Facts:
- there are other ways out of the building apart from the lower tunnels and the front gate.
- there are no exits from the chapel apart from the inner doors.

Draw the conclusion.

The rest is just speculation. Why a chapel is a fortress, and the whole building isn't?

Anyway, if you read the floor plans, it will become clear if there is another exit and where it is.

 

[Zero Credibility]

So far there has been zero mention of any secret exits, anywhere. And yet you've drawn one on your map. The only fact is, that's guesswork at best and just plain wrong at worse. The chapel is build like a stronghold (slit windows, strong doors, outer courtyard with another doors) and appears to be used as one. If any secret exits exist that's the most likely location of one. Though I wouldn't be holding my breath for one - this city was buried after all and it's perfectly possible any other exits, secret or otherwise are buried as well. But one thing I do know - secret exit in the courtyard makes no sense.

 

[Kz3r0]

A surprise attack is our only chance to win this, resisting a long siege is just suicide, in fact slipping away is the only reasonable choice, the other one would be killing the Reds and Silvers' leaders and consign the relics to the Blues.

 

[Nevill]

But one thing I do know - secret exit in the courtyard makes no sense.

It's just you who are calling it a courtyard for your convenience.
For all you know, this building as a whole is the fortress that is meant to hold against a siege, and the chapel is the treasure vault.

"That would be the chapel where we keep the holy relics, if father is still alive he will be leading the defense from there."

You shoot a question her way, "Are there any other ways in?"

She is still a bit intimidated by you but she tries her best to be brave, "Not that I am aware of my lady. It is built like a vault, strong doors but only one way in and out."

A surprise attack is our only chance to win this, resisting a long siege is just suicide, in fact slipping away is the only reasonable choice, the other one would be killing the Reds and Silvers' leaders and consign the relics to the Blues.

You voted for staying, did you not? If you dig yourself in the chapel, chances are, you won't be slipping out anywhere.

And just why would the Blues let you go after you hand them the relics?

 

[Zero Credibility]

So, she told us that there is no other way in or out of that place. Fine, assuming she was telling the truth (and secret exits are only useful as long you keep them a secret) how do you come from that to "there must be a secret exit in the courtyard"? Why? That's a large leap you are making here. We have no reason to believe any exit even exist, let alone assume where precisely it is.

Fuck, just ask someone in charge here if there is another entrance to the courtyard if you want to put to rest this pointless speculation.

 

[Nevill]

As I said, I base this on this quote by GM:

There are 20 Blues between you and the barred doors. Eight of which are attacking the barred doors, the other twelve are eating. You can hear more Blues outside but you do not know how many.

You would attempt to bar the front door to prevent any more from getting inside with you but it would take time and you would have to do it while fighting the ones that are already inside. And there are other ways out of the building, Derryth and company came through one, there is however only one way out of the chapel and that is through the barred doors.

Naturally, this may only be a statement about there being more ways out than just through the front gate, in which case it would refer to the ramp, but there might be more.

We have no reason to believe any exit even exist, let alone assume where precisely it is.

Fuck, just ask someone in charge here if there is another entrance to the courtyard if you want to put to rest this pointless speculation.

Fucking brilliant. And what do you think the floor plans we requested are for?

He continues in a tone that allows for no dissent, "I want to know the floor plan of the building, entrances and exits, chokepoints, all of it. We need to clear firing lanes and set up the artillery if we are staying. If we are going then we need a proper plan of retreat or we will be butchered. Does everyone understand?"

 

[Zero Credibility]

Did we or did we not see any other exits on our way here? If not, where does this "secret exit" stuff comes from? How do we know this shit?

Fuck asking for plans, there's a fucking army out there and we have one, ONE opportunity to cripple them right here and now. Just grab the first fucking person that comes near us and ask "is there a secret exit in the courtyard?!"

And even if there are ten fucking exits there, it still doesn’t change shit because we are not leaving anyway. All it does is make that place even more of a death trap. Two possible entrances are bad, but three would be better? What the fuck? Just how many people do you think we have to defend them? Because I assure you we don't have enough to hold one entrance let alone three of them.

 

[Kz3r0]

A surprise attack is our only chance to win this, resisting a long siege is just suicide, in fact slipping away is the only reasonable choice, the other one would be killing the Reds and Silvers' leaders and consign the relics to the Blues.

You voted for staying, did you not? If you dig yourself in the chapel, chances are, you won't be slipping out anywhere.

I was just pointing out that if we remain is better try a surprise attack.

And just why would the Blues let you go after you hand them the relics?

Well, Miosguinn could vouche for us no?
Mine was just an attempt at playing the villain tho.
On a side note I think that the stone Derryth is searching for is one of the relics.

 

[Jester]

Negotiate with leader of Reds hammer for help in retreat.
1C
2C
3A5 split use children, Maul, Biliku and her sister to pack wounded people and start retreating, stall for time, if it fail use mortar to thin horde, if dwarfs are good enough demolition experts plant explosives on entrance of tunnel to collapse it after retreat to force enemies to take more time to give chase.


How much is there btw? circa 50? 100?

 

[Nevill]

Fuck asking for plans, there's a fucking army out there and we have one, ONE opportunity to cripple them right here and now. Just grab the first fucking person that comes near us and ask "is there a secret exit in the courtyard?!"

We also have one, ONE opportunity to find out if we aren't shooting ourselves in the foot by staying here.
We don't know anything about this building, we don't know whether these creatures can sneak into the Inner Court or not, and if they attack now, we risk finding it out too late.

I am very, very tempted to press the awesome button, but is has a certain 'fuck planning, YOLO!' feel to it that just does not sit right with the setting.

Well, Miosguinn could vouch for us no?

He was very convinced that we would die - or worse - if we go down here. This implies that he is powerless to stop his comrades.

Mind you, I am all for retreating, but in the current circumstances it is unfeasible. We need to draw blood so that the Blues don't follow us.

3A5 split use children, Maul, Biliku and her sister to pack wounded people and start retreating, stall for time, if it fail use mortar to thin horde, if dwarfs are good enough demolition experts plant explosives on entrance of tunnel to collapse it after retreat to force enemies to take more time to give chase.

So you have a combined plan? We stay while the wounded retreat? This might work, but who would escort the non-combatants? Ithapi alone might not be enough.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Yes, we do know something about the building. We know there is only one way in. We know it has slit windows that kept the climbers out. We know it is defensible because these people are still alive. We know there are at least two entrances to the courtyard. We also know defenders in the courtyard are spider food. We know all that already. Look, I'm not fucking saying to let them inside. By all means, barricade the outer doors, the longer they hold the longer we can pound them from the windows. But be prepared for when it falls and mine the place because we can't hold that position.

We also know that our opposing enemies are almost completely animalistic, and the only semblance of rational thought we've seen on their side are those guys out there, nicely bunched up and not expecting our artillery. That's not yoloing, that's taking a sound tactical opportunity when it presents itself.

 

[Boxer]

Tldr, I dont understand why Mios is now suddenly one of the driders. Wasnt he just an illusionist with heavy makeup that we choose to ignore? I get why his little girl might be one but how is he connected to the Blue?

Can we teach our meatshields to withstand 'suggestion' or 'compulsion' a bit? What are we rolling against if we try mindmagic? Wis, Per, Int, situation combo?

Vote

1. With everyone focused on the army outside you could try and slip away. Do you? The dwarves are unlikely to leave
B) You leave and take Serpent
always hated dwarves, they make no sense, tiny people get slaughtered in any engagement
also, this aint pony friendship, deserters are shot on sight


3. If you delay the start of the battle you will have time to come up with a plan:
A) A plan of retreat:
i. Quick Retreat - you leave the wounded and the children.
id vote for 'merciful retreat' but i guess that killing the wounded is a bit insane...
also, give the wounded some splosives so that they can do a noble sacrifice

4. The Ring:
A) You throw it away
fuck all wizards

 

[Boxer]

Regarding mortar fire.

One of the best fucking videos to come out of Syria (well, next to the mined road that killed 150 of a 300 man strong terrorist comlum). When Saifullah drops, I started fapping. It is simple. Beatiful.
Take the 1:55 minutes to absorb that magnificent moment of Allah's wisdom.

The moment of death of Islamist commander "Saifullah al-Shishani" by mortar shrapnel in Aleppo central prison
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ca6_1392386226

 

[Nevill]

Yes, we do know something about the building. We know there is only one way in. We know it has slit windows that kept the climbers out. We know it is defensible because these people are still alive. We know there are at least two entrances to the courtyard. We also know defenders in the courtyard are spider food.

Again, you are so focused on the chapel that you discard the 'courtyard' completely when you talk about the building.

That the people inside the chapel are alive is not their achievement. We did not see them attempting to defend themselves when the enemy was clawing at the door. It may very well be that the courtyard perimeter is a much more defensible position, and that the defenders were merely overrun due to inexperience, sneak attack from an unexpected point of entry, or for other reasons. But you won't know it unless you research it.

We are going in circles. You think that a quick strike would be enough to win the battle. But if it isn't, we are done for.

We also know that our opposing enemies are almost completely animalistic, and the only semblance of rational thought we've seen on their side are those guys out there, nicely bunched up and not expecting our artillery.

Animals don't try to reopen the gates once they close. Do not assume that just because they are animalistic they are not cunning and/or downright sentient as well. If Isolde is one such creature, that should tell you that some of them have better INT than an average human.

Intelligent or not, the people in blue robes have not waged war in years. Gareth has so much more experience than them that it isn't even funny. A solid battle plan is less flashy than a mortar shot, but is also much more reliable.

I guess it was too much to hope people would go for the mage duel. We could give our men enough time and blast the Blue leader to bits. Derryth would probably die, though - seeing as how they have ceiling climbers and what not, they would be able to flank her easily.

The vote count

Mortar time:
Kz3r0
Anabanana
Zero Credibility
Smashing Axe

Planning time:
Anabanana
Baltika9
tuluse
Jester

Fuck it, I flop to 2A for maximum awesome and let somebody else convince me not to.

Edit: it would be funny if the group is not really where we see it is. Miosguinn and Isolde were specializing in illusions, after all.

 

[Zero Credibility]

I only discard the courtyard as as defensible position, because it's not with our current numbers. We don't have the luxury of trading our men for theirs in melee and if it comes to melee we are in deep shit because of that, chokepoint or not (and I already explained why I think that might not mean much against an enemy that can climb on walls and ceilings). So we need to keep out of melee as long as possible. Use whatever ranged weapons, tricks and traps we have to wear them down. They are quite likely melee only oriented, don't play the game they want to play. Don't try to hold a position against them unless we have no other choice. Here we do - abandon the courtyard and blow it and them to hell behind you.

As for mortaring the leaders - well it's a gamble. On one side we could use some time to prepare, yes. On the other side, we know these things are almost animals consumed by bloodlust. Without someone to lead them they are probably incapable of significantly adapting their tactics against us. That's a huge advantage, it's a difference between facing a mindless horde and an army. As for they just being an illusion - it's a particularity nasty possibility, but I don't think that's the case. Our missing mages might pull it off if they are out there (maybe pull Nine out of the bag and ask what does she see?), but why would they expect our side to be capable of hurting them? They don't even know we are here and our mages were not present when we found the mortar, were they? All they think they are dealing with here is demoralised remnants of the other two factions.

 

[Nevill]

I have already flopped, so at least you don't have to convince me.

Yes, they strike me as melee-only type, with their teeth and claws (though spitting spiders do exist, thus we can't exclude the possibility). However, the balanced approach we took to deal with 20 of them worked just fine. That's how you deal with superior enemy forces in the games - the dwarves and archers do all the work and the melee guys mop up the survivors that were lucky enough to get through. The chokepoints could be held almost indefinitely against slower opponents.

I have no idea what to do if they occupy the courtyard. The reason why I headed straight for the front gates in the previous choice was because I didn't want to end up in a situation like that. We'd have to pray there won't be someone to tell them to lay siege and wait until our supplies run out instead of trying to storm the place in blind rage. Hell, if our wagon is gone, how would we even return to the surface? What would we eat, Ithapi? You better hope spider meat is tasty.

I agree that the leaders being an illusion is leaning towards Shulgi hunting in terms of plausibility. At least Miosguinn had a reason to be an expert in his field - ypu have to mask the deformities if you are to mingle with humans. These people have no need to. But they know (well, suspect) that at least Neith and Christine are there, and these two are mages who wield some powerful one-shotting spells (Christine could have killed Derryth back then if she wanted to). The Blues would have to expect at least that much.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Yes, they strike me as melee-only type, with their teeth and claws (though spitting spiders do exist, thus we can't exclude the possibility).

Hey hey, stop giving the DM ideas on how to kill us!

But seriously, what do all these people (and now spiders) eat down here? There must be a food source of some kind, maybe an underground river with fish or something. I wonder what would happen if we took out their leaders, would they eventually turn on each other in their hunger? Not that I think it will come to that because this will be decided much sooner, but could we wait them out that way? If we absolutely have no other choice, we could always try the gate spell to escape, either to the surface or to our new secret base.

 

[Fangshi]

How much is there btw? circa 50? 100?

A fair number, more than fifty but less than one hundred.

Christine could have killed Derryth back then if she wanted to

Well to be fair, Derryth could have fairly easily killed Christine too. One firebolt to the face at that range probably would have dropped her as well. Given that there are no real defensive spells in the setting it is fairly easy to kill a mage early in their career. It is only really when you reach archmage levels that it becomes difficult to kill a mage and even then it usually is not too difficult to actually harm them, they just keep coming back is all.

Current Tally:
Kz3r0 1c 2a 3biv 4a
Anabanana 1c 2c 3biv 4-
Nevill 1c 2a 3biv 4a
Zero Credibility 1c 2a 3biv
Azira 1c 2a 3biv
Smashing Axe 1c 2a 3bii>3biv 4a
Baltika9 1c 2c 3bi 4a
tuluse 1c 2c 3biv 4a
Jester 1c 2c 3av
Boxer 1b 3ai 4a
Grimgravy 1c 2c>a 3bii 4b


1.
A)
B) 1 vote
C) 10 votes

2.
A) 5 (6) votes
B)
C) 5 votes
D)

3.
A)
i. 1 vote
ii.
iii.
iv.
v. 1 vote
B)
i. 1 vote
ii. 2 votes
iii.
iv. 6 (7) votes

4.
A) 6 votes
B) 1 vote