My girlfriend's opinion of the Infinity Engine...

[Humanophage]

I don't see any trouble with either RTwP combat or turn-base combat, except if it takes too long for the opponent to move in the latter (e.g., Hammer & Sickle). One can perceive Paradox grand strategies as RTwP games, and the pace is radically different from any proper RTS. It has always seemed quite absurd somebody would claim that, say, Icewind Dale is a sort of actiony game because of RTwP.

 

[Luzur]

i do not understand, why wasnt she in the kitchen?
was she delivering an sandwich when she noticed this?

 

[Luzur]

i do not understand, why wasnt she in the kitchen?
was she delivering an sandwich when she noticed this?

 

[Luzur]

i do not understand, why wasnt she in the kitchen?
was she delivering an sandwich when she noticed this?

 

[DragoFireheart]

STOP NECROING THIS STUPID FUCKING THREAD YOU FAGGOTS

 

[Luzur]

EDIT: what the fuck? why did the Codex triple my post?

 

[Carceri]

Backstab multiplier.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

One of the worst engines I've seen in a video game, with combat just as bad. The IE is what ruined PST for me.

 

[Ancient]

 

[Harold]

 

[Harold]

Edit: backstab multiplier codex server sux etc.

 

[CrimHead]

hey guys i have a girlfriend

 

[Rogue]

You guys are a bunch of noobs. Clicks??? Pauses??? WTF? Hardcore games are played with a controller not with this 'mouse' you keep talking about. A controller is the only thing that can deliver a truly immersive and visceral combat experience. It's not like you even know what that is. Trololo.

 

[PorkaMorka]

I dunno.

Certain fights in BG2 illustrate that you can still do relatively tactical fights in a real time with pause environment.

If many other fights were less tactical, that may come down to poor encounter design and poor ability design (archery sort of eliminated any challenge in certain BG1 fights), rather than an inherent flaw in the system.

I tended to have fun with most of the fights with other mixed parties in the infinity engine games, until I got too powerful for them, which is a problem in most RPGs.

RTWP also has the advantage of speeding up shitty waste of time fights, which is something that turn based lost over time.

In the Gold Box games, not only did everyone move and fight fast, due to no walking animations and short fighting/casting animations, but you could actually automate the trash fights and let the computer handle them.

Over time though, the speed of combat in turn based was lost, as graphic whores demanded walking animations and long spell and fighting animations.

Automation of shitty fights as also lost.

For a while this slow down was tolerable, as in say the Dark Sun games, but eventually this trend became somewhat of a problem for the genre.

By the time turn based games died out, we had reached a point where turn based retreated up it's own ass and became unplayable without third party speed up mods. See Wizardry 8 and Pool of Radiance 2.

While these design challenges are rather easily solved, developers rarely did so, and to some extent turn based is incompatible with the demand of graphic whores for endless time wasting animations. Perhaps speeding or eliminating the animations and just sliding the model across the board would be harmful to "immershun"? Dunno why they didn't make that an option in every game.

I'd rather play any of the Infinity Engine games than Wizardry 8 or Pool of Radiance 2 without speed mods. (Putting aside the relative merits of the games, and just looking at how much time you waste on trash fights)

 

[betamin]

I agree with the above, 1 hour filler fights on wizardry 8 = quit

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Perhaps speeding or eliminating the animations and just sliding the model across the board would be harmful to "immershun"?

In a game with graphics like Wizardy 8 ? Yes it definitely would. I can understand the hate for filler combat, but solving it by making a 2002 graphic engine behave like a 1988 one would be ridiculous for me. Same with PoR.

Sliding sprites that cannot into walking, no spell animations = OK

Sliding sprites, no spell animations = WTF ?

That said I do regret for your sake that they didn't make it an option, even if I had no idea that someone would want a graphical engine like this one :

to have ennemies slide in front of the party instead of walking and not recoil from a non animated fireball. To each their own...

 

[PorkaMorka]

Well both games have speed up mods that make the monsters move at 200-1000% speed. These mods tend to be heavily recommended wherever/whenever the games are discussed.

Sliding the models or animating them at 600% plus speed, same thing really, either is fine with me, as long as they don't warp, that's a bit disorienting.

The alternative is literally hours and hours of watching zombies or bugs walk across the screen one at a time.

If you haven't already, I strongly recommend you try a few hours of POR2 without the speed patch (get to some of the fights with large amounts of undead), then install the speed patch and compare.

Or just watch this (turn down sound) starting at 1:07, then remember that you fight hundreds of these slow guys and sometimes they can aggro from really far away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvYplvUXuEA

It's not such a bad game with the option for 600%+ speed animations at the press of a button, thanks to the fan produced speed hack. (still not a good game)

Additionally, there should have been simultaneous movement for all enemies who are acting at the same initiative, like TOEE had.

I'll go to my grave defending properly sped up turn based as the ideal, however when you consider POR2 and Wizardry 8 came out AFTER BG2 and were so unplayably slow unmodded, it's no wonder everyone preferred RTWP.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

If you haven't already, I strongly recommend you try a few hours of POR2 without the speed patch (get to some of the fights with large amounts of undead), then install the speed patch and compare.

I did. And yet I still played both PoR 2 and Wizardy 8 twice, the whole way through, without the speed patches. Did I swear and curse ? Yes, a lot. Was it better than fighting hordes of quicksilver zombies and rogues on crack ? Yes. The point of improved graphics in turn based combat is rendered moot when it turns ennemies into parodies of themselves. Damn, it's even counter productive. I agree that good turn based combat doesn't need said graphical enhancements (see KotC) but when they are here, might as well use them properly.

Additionally, there should have been simultaneous movement for all enemies who are acting at the same initiative, like TOEE had

This on the other hand, is something I desperately wished for in both games.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

If you haven't already, I strongly recommend you try a few hours of POR2 without the speed patch (get to some of the fights with large amounts of undead), then install the speed patch and compare.

I did. And yet I still played both PoR 2 and Wizardy 8 twice, the whole way through, without the speed patches. Did I swear and curse ? Yes, a lot. Was it better than fighting hordes of quicksilver zombies and rogues on crack ? Yes. The point of improved graphics in turn based combat is rendered moot when it turns ennemies into parodies of themselves.

No, it isn't. Graphics exist also outside the combat. Fallout had combat speed settings, but I have never thought that it shouldn't have animations and high-end graphics just because I play it with maximum speed combat.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Graphics exist also outside the combat.

Sure they do, but "turn-based" vs "RTwP" is what we're discussing. Or at least, what I was discussing. So far, having a nice graphics engine in turn based combat confronts you to this basic choice : "wasting hours of your time" or "fighting oversped ennemies". I prefer the first option, more prefer the second, even more ragequit and go to RTwP. But everybody wants nice graphics for the rest of the game, there's no doubt about that.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

One moron starts spamming a large block of pictures obviously in a desperate attempt to "express" himself, and immediately some other morons are jumping on the bandwagon because posting large blocks of bullshit images is incredibly funny. At least it's funny if you're kinda stupid and don't really have anything worthwhile to say to begin with.

 

[Azrael the cat]

After seeing me play through every IE game except IWD2, she describes it like this:

"Point, click, scatter."
"Point, click, scatter."
"Big, big battle you can't even see."
"Point, click, scatter."


Thought you'd enjoy it...

Which is funny, because in a weird coincidence, D. Gaider had a similarly succinct opinion of Mad Dog's girlfriend...

 

[Zed]

IE is the best thing to have happened CRPGing.
Classy thread gents.

 

[waywardOne]

i'm sure she's fat and therefore her opinion is worthless.

 

[Lightknight]

"RTWP also has the advantage of speeding up shitty waste of time fights, which is something that turn based lost over time. "

Well, duh, just dont create games with filler battles !