Morrowind was massive decline and should be considered as such

[Duralux for Durabux]

Yes you read it right, i mean every words.
This game was the first game in the elder scrolls that got rid of features and stuff.Instead of improving daggerfall and adding stuff, this game threw everything out of the window.
In total, Morrowind got rid of:

1. Skills:Orcish,Harpy,Deadric,Medecine,swimming,climbing,critical strike,Backstab,Centaurian,streetwise,SprigganThaumaturgy,Nymph,Orcish,Dragonish,dodging, Giantish,etiquette,Impish. A total of 19 skills removed in Morrowind only .3x times more skills removed between Daggerfall and Morrowind than Morrowind and Oblivion.
2. Main quest: Choices and consequences removed in Morrowind
3. NPC: No longer sleep, no longer answer you if they accept you in their houses. You can no longer ask for work.
4. Factions: 18 factions removed from Daggerfall, Temple factions gone, Knightly orders gone. Factions can no longer dismiss you and factions can no longer refuse you if you have a bad reputation.Faction reputation
5. Dungeons: hidden doors, traps, complexity.
6. Wereboar
7. Daggerfall 9 vampire Bloodlines-> 3 vampire bloodlines Morrowind
8. Witch covens
9. Court: debate or lie
10. Political entities
11. Cities can no longer ban you
12. 20 shrines in Daggerfall -> 11 Shrines in morrowind
13. Music that changes considering the mood
14. In daggerfall 2 hours OST -> 50 minutes in Morrowind
15. Banks, ship, letters of credit, carriage,horse,Bracers,and other items.
16. Character creation, edit reputations, deep background, you can no longer edit advantages and disadvantages.

The only things that morrowind has upon daggerfall are alien setting and everything hand-crafted.
2 steps forward 16 steps backward, and it goes downhill since morrowind.

 

[Falksi]

Most things it got rid of weren't missed, and made the whole experience more focused and better for it.

It's a shame that they continued streamlining things too much for the latter entries in TES, but Morrowind had a great balance of everything, and only the annoying combat let it down really.

 

[DalekFlay]

Most of these confuse "more" with "better" or "richer." It's like when some on here confuse any kind of added complexity as a good thing, even if it's nonsensical and adds nothing fulfilling gameplay wise. Simplifying and "dumbing down" are when you take a worthwhile and rich mechanic that adds depth and remove it because retards can't figure it out. It's not when you take something cumbersome or unwieldy and make it more focused and straightforward.

 

[krilcebre]

More is not always better, as we can see in new games that add a bunch of unnecessary stuff, diluting the main flavor of the game. That said, there is also oversimplification, but I think Morrowind had a great balance of content.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Most things it got rid of weren't missed, .

I disagree, I miss the deep character creation system,I miss the complexity of dungeons(but a bit tuned down), I miss horse,carriage with said horse, I miss the politic climax, I miss the debate system, I miss so many things from Daggerfall. Daggerfall needed to be improve instead of throwing everything it tried to achieve.

 

[smaug]

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/daggerfall-was-better-than-morrowind-tell-me-why.10926/

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-was-better-than-morrowind-tell-me-why.10926/

I know, i read this thread in the past. I wanted to complete the said thread.Keep in mind that i'm talking about daggerfall unity which is what Daggerfall was supposed to be. Some of his points are outdated now.

 

[M. AQVILA]

Quality > quantity.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Quality > quantity.

So removing all the points above is quality. Nice, keep the bar low, don't complain about streamlining then.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

This forum is full of morrowind fanboys. *sigh* Removing deep RPG elements is the norm now.

 

[Desiderius]

There’s a vid out there somewhere on YT that lays it all out nicely. Daggerfall baton remains there to be picked up by the next genius dev.

 

[M. AQVILA]

So removing all the points i quoted above is quality. Nice, keep the bar low, don't complain about streamlining then.

Things were not only removed, some completely new things were added in. Like conjuration, for example. Much more useful than the useless skills that were actually removed, especially the language skills. As for Thaumaturgy, the spells were just redistributed among new skills.

 

[Dyet]

Most things it got rid of weren't missed, .

I disagree, I miss the deep character creation system,I miss the complexity of dungeons(but a bit tuned down), I miss horse,carriage with said horse, I miss the politic climax, I miss the debate system, I miss so many things from Daggerfall. Daggerfall needed to be improve instead of throwing everything it tried to achieve.

Although I think saying Morrowind is massive decline is a bit much, I agree. Replaying Daggerfall recently, I keep wishing some competent dev would make a worthy successor to it. Maybe The Wayward Realms will end up not being a trainwreck, but I'm not expecting anything.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Things were not only removed, some completely new things were added in. Like conjuration, for example. Much more useful than the useless skills that were actually removed, especially the language skills. As for Thaumaturgy, the spells were just redistributed among new skills.

Useless skills? language skills weren't useless, they were there for someone who wants to do a pacifist run. In morrowind, you are forced to kill.
They should have been improve like in Battlespire. WOW they added conjuration and they removed 19 skills what an addition.

 

[Citizen]

Daggerfall is ambitious and I respect it for that, but it's not in any way a good game. It's basically decline incarnate in many many ways, and while it had some nice ideas, the resulting product wasn't even remotely good. It's an empty world filled with randomized bland dungeons and boring randomly generated fetch quests, that overstays its welcome after a few hours of gameplay when you toyed enough with magic constructor and item enchanting systems and there absolutely nothing else left to do

It was a nice tech demo of a huge randomly generated world with some RPG mechanics on top and it had some nice ideas (spell and enchantement system that I already mentioned), but you must be a goddamn NPC to play those randomized fetch quests over and over and actually believe that it was GOOD FUCKING GAME, let alone a better one than Morrowind, which not only inherited most of the Daggerfall's RPG mechanics, but also featured an actual game world to explore, filled with actual content, lore, quests and secrets

Most entries on your list aren't even implemented in the game. Language skills, really? It's not like they opened additional dialog options or allowed to communicate with corresponding creatures, all they did was "reduce the chance of attack by said creature", what a joke. They reduced the amount of vampire clans and Great Houses? Boo-hoo. They didn't even had unique quests, they were just names. No content lost. What's the point of systems that don't work? I love complex simulation games, but i'll take a simpler, but actually working game any day instead of something like daggerfall.

TL/DR: OP is a fag, daggerfall was the NuManSky of it's day

Spoiler

I still played it 7 3 times

 

[Raghar]

If you had game developer skills, you'd be able to write 3+ page long essay why some of these things on that list should never be in Morrowind.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

It's an empty world filled with randomized bland dungeons and boring randomly generated fetch quests

Thanks MS-DOS and the hardware at the time

It was a nice tech demo of a huge randomly generated world with some RPG mechanics on top and it had some nice ideas (spell and enchantement system that I already mentioned), but you must be a goddamn NPC to play those randomized fetch quests over and over and actually believe that it was GOOD FUCKING GAME, let alone a better one than Morrowind, which not only inherited most of the Daggerfall's RPG mechanics, but also featured an actual game world to explore, filled with actual content, lore, quests and secrets

Like i said , One step forward for morrowind but every other steps backward.

Most entries on your list aren't even implemented in the game. Language skills, really? It's not like they opened additional dialog options or allowed to communicate with corresponding creatures,

Play battlespire you worthless faggot, it should have been like this in Morrowind instead of removing them.

They reduced the amount of vampire clans and Great Houses? Boo-hoo. They didn't even had unique quests, they were just names. No content lost. What's the point of systems that don't work? I love complex simulation games, but i'll take a simpler, but actually working game any day instead of something like daggerfall.

No they weren't just names and you prove me that you didn't play the game. In conclusion fuck you. Morrowind removed complexity and you accept that like an idiot. And again take into consideration the release date please.

TL/DR: OP is a fag, daggerfall was the NuManSky of it's day

No it wasn't, it was hardly limited by the hardware at the time. FOR SOMETHING coming from 1996 it's revolutionary. Can you understand it ?
Whereas Morrowind was a disappointment, it was banal, boring and absolutely not something revolutionary. It's ambition was abysmal.

 

[M. AQVILA]

Useless skills? language skills weren't useless, they were there for someone who wants to do a pacifist run. In morrowind, you are forced to kill.
They should have been improve like in Battlespire. WOW they added conjuration and they removed 19 skills what an addition.

To me conjuration itself is worth more than most of the game's skills combined, as I quite like summoning skills. And not many games have them.

Morrowind has 27 skills and Daggerfall has 35, the utterly useless language skills make up 9 of those.

 

[Zer0wing]

Hi VD, how's Colony Ship RPG development goes by?

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

To me conjuration itself is worth more than most of the game's skills combined, as I quite like summoning skills. And not many games have them.

Morrowind has 27 skills and Daggerfall has 35, the utterly useless language skills make up 9 of those.

I hope you will be please in TES6 when there will be only Conjuration and no other skills.

 

[Zibniyat]

WTF I love decline now.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

And an other thing, Morrowind was supposed to be immense (covering the entire continent of Vvardenfell), unique,deep,and even more revolutionary than daggerfall was. Everyone here is please with a lackluster Morrowind.

 

[Citizen]

Thanks MS-DOS and the hardware at the time

For the bad decisions of the development team? Do you really think that a game like daggerfall that would feature mostly randomly generated content would be much different if it were to come out today? The only difference would be the graphics probably, we had our share of shitty randomly generated slogs in last decade

No they weren't just names and you prove me that you didn't play the game. In conclusion fuck you. Morrowind removed complexity and you accept that like an idiot. And again take into consideration the date of release please.

I would take the honest simplicity of morrowind over the fake complexity of daggerfall any day. You are jerking off to the IDEAS OF SYSTEMS THAT WEREN'T EVEN IMPLEMENTED INTO THE GAME PROPERLY, those actual and cool systems are just in your head. Daggerfall is barely even a game FFS, the amount of actual non-randomized content is minimal

You're either delusional, trying too hard to get some codex pseudo-oldfag cred or just straight up trolling/harvesting buttons, either way GTFO

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

For the bad decisions of the development team? Do you really think that a game like daggerfall that would feature mostly randomly generated content would be much different if it were to come out today? The only difference would be the graphics probably, we had our share of shitty randomly generated slogs in last decade

NO for the memory restrictions,. Also main quest's dungeons are handcrafted, again you are wrong.

I would take the honest simplicity of morrowind over the fake complexity of daggerfall any day. You are jerking off to the IDEAS OF SYSTEMS THAT WEREN'T EVEN IMPLEMENTED INTO THE GAME PROPERLY, those actual and cool systems are just in your head. Daggerfall is barely even a game FFS, the amount of actual non-randomized content is minimal

Can you stop saying stupid bullshit please? Can you take the release date into account ffs???????

You're either delusional, trying too hard to get some codex pseudo-oldfag cred or just straight up trolling/harvesting buttons, either way GTFO

Who do you think you are? You are a newfag like me. you're not gonna tell me what i have to do.

 

[Arbiter]

And an other thing, Morrowind was supposed to be immense (covering the entire continent of Vvardenfell), unique,deep,and even more revolutionary than daggerfall was. Everyone here is please with a lackluster Morrowind.

Would you rather wander a huge randomly generated continent? Has any game actually delivered a hand crafted world much bigger than that of Morrowind by early 2000's?