MoO3

[JarlFrank]

In my Distant Worlds LP, I've seen some people mentioning that they're playing MoO3 and enjoying it (with mods).

I've heard mostly bad things about it and never got around to playing it. Is it worth it? I'm probably going to not remove it from an inventory to try it out. Which mods would you recommend?

 

[Malakal]

There are two notable: strawberry and chockolate, so check them out and decide Yourself.

For me MOO3 is the best game when actually giving the feeling of ruling a galactic empire. Yes, it is very much alike excel spreadsheet, but unlike other 4X games colonies go into hundreds, warfleets into thousands and scale is simply epic. Unfortunately for most players one has to focus on macro issues and give up on microing everything. Or one turn lasts for hours. But if You want to feel like central government of the empire give it a go.

Also race customization is quite awesome, techs are many and interesting and ship design is good. Combat sucks OTOH but autoresolve is quite fair.

 

[Monocause]

What Malakal said. I actually played the game simply on patch v 1.25 most of the time. Boils down to your tastes - I loved the fact that while you start with much micro, the larger your empire gets the more macro everything gets.

There's a lot of clunky stuff in MoO3, but it's a very innovative gem. You just have to get past your love to previous games first to fully appreciate it.

I might consider doing a LP to show you peeps how awesome the game can be.

Some tips:

- Turn off the senate victory
- Don't pick a map too large unless you're not planning to finish it.
- Remember about the oppresometer. At the start you may go easy on your people, but when spies start showing up press them hard. I once had a situation with >30 enemy espionage actions per turn. Espionage can be very, very powerful.
- Remember to regularly update your ship designs. Once you go full-macro remember to scrap designs which you don't need built. If you don't do it, you might have 999 point defense frigates and only a single battlecruiser. If you don't micro production (and you'll stop doing it at some point) leave only the designs you want.
- Autoresolve battles. The RTS battle engine is completely useless.

 

[JarlFrank]

Alright, I'll try patched vanilla first and then check out the mods.

Is there any mod that adds back the Elerians as a playable race?
I just love playing as space chicks

 

[coldcrow]

Strawberry is a must at least. Also use the 1024x768 mod.

Personally I like the Chocolate mod most. The colony ship race is replaced by automatic migration to category green planets which is a bit more realistic and makes for funny strategic situations later. Also you cannot munchkin at an early stage by mining rich planets and terraforming the giants for industrial havens.

The only quirk I found somewhat annoying is that the New Orions are prone to undergo revolts and form a new Empire which plays by the same rules as the others = they have their fleet and 20 tech levels headstart. I guess that could be changed in the spreadsheets.

PS: The hullsizes and colony bay techs are simply moved up the tree and you start at lvl 0, so later on you can colonize at will.

 

[dragonfk]

It bothers me that Avira finds a trojan in Chocolate mod. Can anyone confirm its indication?

 

[Monocause]

Bookmark this:

https://www.virustotal.com/

A great tool.

@Jarl:

A couple of things I forgot - always start with the maximum number of empires unless you're going to use a really small map; you should try that when you learn to play the game. Play on hard difficulty. Read the manual to learn about some variables that are not explained in-game (like, for example, that the harvesters will always be at war with everyone, the Nommo won't get along with the Trilarians, what do the different govt's give etc)

Having max empires on the smallest map possible makes for an extremely interesting and intense game. Don't try to play the harvesters though :D

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

I remember what a huge disappointment MoO3 was, especially the generic aliens and stupid diplomacy. "Stop your actions!" Stop my what? What the fuck do you mean? Would it have been such a huge bother to write a little more specific messages for diplomacy?

 

[Monocause]

Aliens were "generic"? The MoO3 races all felt more alien to me than what was found in previous installments. All of them had an interesting backstory which reflected on the gameplay in certain ways - the Nommo vs. Trilarian hate, for instance. They were also varied in terms of the gameplay, especially since there were variables that you couldn't change. While you could make your Psilons fairly decent at ground combat, you'd never get them to breed as fast as the Klackons.

I agree that diplomacy was seriously lacking. The Orion Senate, while a great idea, felt very rushed. It does have some interesting ideas though. Some aliens are more receptive to different tones. Cybernetics IIRC respond best if you use neutral tone in negotiations, while the Sakkra respond well when you project power.

Also, unlike many games, diplomacy sort of works. Your allies aren't very likely to backstab you if you keep your relations good. Races won't accept stupid proposals (on the other hand, they tend to decline a peace treaty when clearly losing, which is bad). Just use common sense - when playing humans you probably won't get along too well with the completely alien Silicoids, the best you can hope for is a relatively stable peace treaty.

Diplomacy is a perfect example of the flaws that cover this gem. Try to give it another go and adapt a different approach than most 4X games require. When you get your 20th colony or so, you need to start to think big, making micro changes only when the situation really requires it. At that point the game starts to really shine in a completely unique way. I don't recall seeing gameplay like this in any other title.

 

[Destroid]

I think the alien characteristics and customisation in MoO3 was the best I've seen in any game ever. Limited customization and specific habitats for each type was really good.

I've read the balance between racial traits is quite poor but I never played MoO3 enough to tell.

 

[coldcrow]

It depends. Clearly Manufacturing is the best trait, but the others are more or less balanced.
My favourite race to play is a customized Nommo for high industrail output and good overall economy. You will lead the research race and can start utilizing those giant planets fast. The only downside is that they can't invade planets reasonably, so simply glass everything in sight.

On the other hand you can play a quite good diplomacy game in moo3. A good diplomacy skill + trade trait will make you benefit from friendly relations alot.
You can do funky moves like gfiting useless colonies with mob centres near enemy borders to your allies and watch them duke it out for you
Also a good trade trait will go very well along with recreation DEAs. The human races will benefit from this style of play the most I think. Also the Imsaeis will like it.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Yea, the only real thing is that the diplomatic structure is way too generalized. If the STOP DOING THOSE THINGS was fixed and Orion Senate would have a lot more action in it, it'd be the best we've got. But the real strength of MoO3 is the sprawling economy, where you'll actually be making decisions in the long-term rather than short-term. And not the usual "max out tech -> build huge army" either, since technological advantage has hard time to outweigh superior numbers. You'll actually be working through your own "five year plans" and hope they succeed.

Another great thing is how much the racial traits actually matter in it. When you play with both the opposite extremes of diplomatic talent, you'll really see how much easier life is when your very presence doesn't infuriate people. And those of poor diplomacy will usually have other advantages to further empower their end of the fight.

Btw, what are the hidden modifiers for some of the races? Since there have to be some, since otherwise guys like Grendarl are super-gimped when compared to some of the non-Harvester races who have about one hundred trait points more.

 

[Malakal]

Well races are inbalanced anyway, but there are some hidden traits. Mainly the preferred planets type. Siliconids need not eat, of course. Some baloon races inhabit gas giants. Harvesters eat the population of other races. Personally I never understood exact differences...

 

[Monocause]

http://www.moo3.at/mods/articles/race_m ... rt_two.php

Here're the hardwired race bonuses. I don't know if this wasn't affected by the mods so if you use one, check the docs for info or changes.

I don't like this guy's evaluation of the balance. Silicoids often winded up one of the most powerful empires in all the games I played. The Psilons pop growth is very prohibitive, but it requires strategy. Every time I play the Psilons I hunt for magnate civilisation planets or subdue one of my neighbours, so that they produce and reproduce while I get to keep my Psilon research bonus.

 

[Destroid]

Interesting that the Silicoid have a bad habitat now, considering they used to be able to live happily anywhere.

 

[Malakal]

I think that bad habitat means that race likes bad planetes (when considering their power) not anything else. Best are, of course, gas giants since they are the biggest and worst are small planetes with low g.

 

[Panthera]

This thread brought a tear to my eye. Carry on, gentlemen. Carry on.

 

[Monocause]

Tried DW and didn't like it, the interface is awful and automation is poorly thought. Game feels as if someone put effort into making it confusing.

I'll be reinstalling MoO3 soon and make one of these 'bound-to-be-unfinished' LP's to explain how the game should be played.

 

[pipka]

This thread reminded me of my 4X craving. Carry on.

 

[Heechee]

I'll be reinstalling MoO3 soon and make one of these 'bound-to-be-unfinished' LP's to explain how the game should be played.

That sounds just great. If you could also include an atari-forums-jargon-free introduction on the best selection of mods to download, it would be even better.

 

[Silellak]

Would like to see this MoO3 LP as well. I've never considered the game to be at-all redeemable regardless of what mods were made, but I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Would like to see this MoO3 LP as well. I've never considered the game to be at-all redeemable regardless of what mods were made, but I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong.

 

[coldcrow]

I could help adding tips and bits, considering I played that game to the death

For example the development plans: The dev plans do not tell the AI which DEA to build, only in what order they build and improve the DEAs. At first this may sound meaningless, but when you researched 20 Tech levels it highly matters.
The primary determining factor for the kind of DEA the viceroy build is the zone efficiency(mineral/bio) + Zoning policy.

On micro vs. macro: A good balance is to micro the 4-10 planets with the highest industry output and leave the rest to the AI.

You may want to design some ships to build for the industrially weaker planets - they usually don't get to buil the dreadnoughts, because the AI is quite good at determining what is efficient to build and what not. So step down a few hullsizes and go with that.

Gifiting colonies with mob centres is your primary diplomacy weapon - use it.
You even get alot of techs for such a trade.

On industry: At first keep it balanced = a few DEAs per planet. Once you can colonize the giants and have a reliable mineral income, zone Industry DEAs on those size 11-12 planets. And by that I mean ONLY industry + 1-2 Government DEAs. If oyu have enough of such Giants you can also start to put 1-4 Research DEAs on them - the insane income of the Industry DEAs will enable you to overdrive the Labs and generate an output ofzen higher than an average planets with 8 Research zones.

 

[Malakal]

Few more tips:
- as said in the post above build industry only on few bigger planetes. This way you can micro them and also only those big planetes can afford to build deathstars at a fast and constant rate
- rememeber about taxes and setting grants properly. You will soon notice that new planetes receive about 95% of their budget from grants! This is important to quickly build them from nothing.
- specialize planetes, that should be obvious.
- use sub species for troops. Got a sucky psilon main race? Well, why not employ those dinosaurs from that one colony as shock troopers?
- build balanced fleets. It is easy to counter fleets based on one ship type.
- trade for technology. NEVER will you have all techs after researching tech tree, sometimes you can somehow avoid developing the most important ones. Especially ship types...

 

[coldcrow]

Oh and that trojan is probably the No-cd hacked .exe file. Many No-Cd hacks are falsely reported as generic trojans.