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Commandos-Like Mimimi Games shutting down

spectre

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Impressions are everything. They went from historical games with masculine men and feminine women to mobile-trash-looking fantasy with masculine women and effeminate-looking men. Shadow Tactics had a peak player count of 5037, Desperados III had 6057, Shadow Gambit had 3930. Tens of thousands were repulsed by the concept.
If you claim Shadow Tactics was "historical"... I don't know what to tell you. At least be honest enough to admit you haven't played it, but made a whole lot of assumptions based on the cover art.
Also, nice conclusion you've got there. Obviously, it is all about the nigra protagonist, no other factors at work.
Like the fact that there was a shitton of high-profile releases just recently (including Jagged Alliance 3 which is a similar genre) and the're one more by Bethesda just coming up dindu nuffink for the sales.
Or that Desperados III directly refers to a known cult classic from the 2000s which might have given it some extra brand recognition in comparison to the other two titles that remain rather obscure.

The fact that you lot come over here and gloat over one of the few decent developers going under because ... I'm not even sure why exactly, yet do not even care for the games tell a lot about your motives.
And I am calling you out on this because it doesn't seem you have played any of the games at all, nor do I recall any of you having anything meaningful to say in the actual threads about them.
Why start now? You were doing pretty good.
 

Riddler

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Bubbles In Memoria
Let me be emphatic: FUCK anybody who responded to this thread with "good riddance". You've completely lost the plot.
Let me be emphatic too: FUCK any company that supports and promotes ESG shit.

I'm sure I've completely lost the plot of sucking up to developers, since ESG and wokeness are only "minor issues". Or maybe you do not see them as issues at all.
How dare someone who has a history of excellent games make a misstep!?

They must be driven out of business so we have no chance to get a decent game from them again!
 

Tavar

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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
I wonder why they just didn't sell the company. It seems that the leaders didn't want to deal with the financial risk anymore which is understandable given that one or two unsuccessful games usually mean the end for a small independent studio. Selling the company would be a way to transfer the risk to someone else. I wonder whether they tried and didn't find any buyer or if they never considered that route at all.
 

Riddler

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Bubbles In Memoria
I wonder why they just didn't sell the company. It seems that the leaders didn't want to deal with the financial risk anymore which is understandable given that one or two unsuccessful games usually mean the end for a small independent studio. Selling the company would be a way to transfer the risk to someone else. I wonder whether they tried and didn't find any buyer or if they never considered that route at all.
The most likely buyer here would have been Embracer group but their debt driven model is having financial struggles related to the interest hikes.

If this was a few years ago I'm sure they'd be more than willing to buy Mimimi
 

spectre

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How dare someone who has a history of excellent games make a misstep!?
By the way, let's take the time to establish what their "misstep" was actually about.
In my opinion, it boils down to this:
(o) They took a risk with their own IP. Inquisitors vs. Zombie Pirates... in the Caribbean. I admit it wasn't an immediate sell for me. At least with kinky nippon and cowboys you sorta know where you stand.
(o) They took a risk with the art style. People being filtered by the box art aside (by the way, faux pirates of the carribean is one of the few in which a diverse cast of characters makes a shred of sense),
I do think the quality took a nosedive when you compare it to the very stylish Shadow Tactics.
(o) They took a risk in abandoning their proven formula - fixed mission structure, in favor of a more sandbox-y approach.
(o) They took a risk by releasing straight into the shitstorm that is right after the release of Diablo 4, same week as Baldur's Gate 3, just before Starfield.
Sure, not even the same genre, but it's not helping your exposure if what you're selling is already a niche concept.

Perhaps they overestimated their brand strength, or Shadow Gambit is a game they actually wanted to make. I think they succeeded as far as the mechanics go.
If they were success whores, they'd probably just bite it and make another Commandos (or would they? They're Germen after all).
 

duskvile

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This is the saddest beause Mimimi were above indie studio with great game designs. Will now every middle range studio end up merged with giant conglomeration like Microsoft, Sony, EA ...
 

Roguey

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Let me be emphatic: FUCK anybody who responded to this thread with "good riddance". You've completely lost the plot.

Mimimi only has themselves to blame for abandoning their previous style for a radically different one. I just don't see it as a big loss now. This is a forum full of people who sneer at well-designed jrpgs because they're so aesthetically displeasing, what did you expect?

It's also my understanding that they fucked up the design with this one with bloat as well so it's not even their best game gameplay-wise. Downhill trajectory.

If you claim Shadow Tactics was "historical"... I don't know what to tell you. At least be honest enough to admit you haven't played it, but made a whole lot of assumptions based on the cover art.
Also, nice conclusion you've got there. Obviously, it is all about the nigra protagonist, no other factors at work.
Like the fact that there was a shitton of high-profile releases just recently (including Jagged Alliance 3 which is a similar genre) and the're one more by Bethesda just coming up dindu nuffink for the sales.
Or that Desperados III directly refers to a known cult classic from the 2000s which might have given it some extra brand recognition in comparison to the other two titles that remain rather obscure.

I played the demo for Shadow Tactics. It was too stressful for me (lacked an active pause), but it seemed like a quality game and was historical enough. No garish colors or magic skeletons. Later on I played the demo for Desperados III. It had an active pause and I liked it a lot, bought it, haven't gotten around to it in the queue just yet (I'll be using the LONERIDER code to get to where I left off). Once again, no garish colors or magic skeletons (apparently there's a voodoo character later on? That's not too out-of-place, being rooted in folklore).

So what if they're not 100% historical? You're using that annoying wordcel argument that progs do when they pick apart tiny exceptions and go "and that's why you shouldn't complain when we do whatever the hell we want." Mimimi acknowledged in a couple of dev diaries that Shadow Tactics was a radical departure from what they did before https://www.shadowgambit.com/why-shadow-gambit-the-cursed-crew-had-to-be-a-pirate-game-dev-diary-1/ https://www.shadowgambit.com/why-sh...so-different-from-desperados-iii-dev-diary-3/

It was a terrible risk that did not pay off, they just did this thing without thinking or any market research that would tell them that a good chunk of their audience would be disgusted and just nope out.

Also, nice conclusion you've got there. Obviously, it is all about the nigra protagonist, no other factors at work.
Like the fact that there was a shitton of high-profile releases just recently (including Jagged Alliance 3 which is a similar genre) and the're one more by Bethesda just coming up dindu nuffink for the sales.
Or that Desperados III directly refers to a known cult classic from the 2000s which might have given it some extra brand recognition in comparison to the other two titles that remain rather obscure.

JA3 is a turn-based tactical RPG, not really the same genre. There will always be competing games in different genres. I'm not a buy-games-at-launch person to begin with. But if I were, would I get this right away? Fuck no, it looks awful. Bargain bin price for a bargain-bin-looking-title.
 

spectre

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I played the demo for Shadow Tactics. It was too stressful for me (lacked an active pause), but it seemed like a quality game and was historical enough. No garish colors or magic skeletons. Later on I played the demo for Desperados III. It had an active pause and I liked it a lot, bought it, haven't gotten around to it in the queue just yet (I'll be using the LONERIDER code to get to where I left off). Once again, no garish colors or magic skeletons (apparently there's a voodoo character later on? That's not too out-of-place, being rooted in folklore).

So what if they're not 100% historical? You're using that annoying wordcel argument that progs do when they pick apart tiny exceptions and go "and that's why you shouldn't complain when we do whatever the hell we want." Mimimi acknowledged in a couple of dev diaries that Shadow Tactics was a radical departure from what they did before https://www.shadowgambit.com/why-shadow-gambit-the-cursed-crew-had-to-be-a-pirate-game-dev-diary-1/ https://www.shadowgambit.com/why-sh...so-different-from-desperados-iii-dev-diary-3/
So not historical. Thank you. For a moment I though you wanted to have a conversation about back when a ninja teamed up with two girls and an old fart with a trained raccoon
in the Edo period Japan. I can work with "grounded" or "realistic".

Sorry you're being upset about me wanting to stick to definitions, but right back at you: twisting words to fit an agenda is exactly the "enemies of mankind" are doing.
No argument that there's been a departure in style. My previous post says just that. Not going for grounded and realistic doesn't mean it's now "woke" or "dangerhair".
Going all reee: there's a melanin-positive womyn on the game cover, that's disgusting - is also exactly what the "enemies of mankind" are doing.

You dislike a creative decision they took, that's fair. No need to be a dick about it.
https://www.shadowgambit.com/why-sh...so-different-from-desperados-iii-dev-diary-3/
It was a terrible risk that did not pay off, they just did this thing without thinking or any market research that would tell them that a good chunk of their audience would be disgusted and just nope out.
The decision to wrap up the studio has already been made, from what I read in their statement, so not sure if "paying off" was even a factor for them.
Perhaps they still chalk it up as a win if it's a game they wanted to make, which they admitted.

Your gut feeling is right. This genre is slow burn when it comes to sales. A lot of people aren't really looking to play a commandos clone after a commandos clone after a commandos clone.
(this also means stats such as peak players don't really mean anything).

Just to wrap it up, disgusted is a strong word to use. I would argue that their core audience knew pretty well what to expect from this developer (and, let me repeat, mechanically - they delivered).
The new IP and a less grounded approach was a hard sell and that's that. No need to push current day politics into this, because it's not even close to being the focus of the game,
no matter how try you want them to be. I object to taking this road, because this shit sours and makes any sort of meaningful discussion impossible.

If you're going to paint Mimimi as full on woke advocates who recently took a U turn from being all kosher... they're not.
They already did strong female characters in their previous games. They also did female protagonists, c.f the first DLC to Shadow Tactics called Ako's Choice.

They're not the enemy, and I can't for the life of me fathom why you desperately want them to be.
Without putting words into Infinitron's mouth, I believe that's what he meant when he said you've (and not just you) lost the plot and it's hard for me not to agree.
 

NJClaw

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spectre I appreciate your passion, but you're committing a grave mistake here. Everything Roguey has written so far is just a very wordy rationalization for his being unable to cope with the existence of black women. Everything else is irrelevant. The game could be a 10/10 masterpiece and he wouldn't care.
 

Roguey

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So not historical. Thank you. For a moment I though you wanted to have a conversation about back when a ninja teamed up with two girls and an old fart with a trained raccoon
in the Edo period Japan. I can work with "grounded" or "realistic".
But they're neither grounded nor realistic. You do some pretty over the top things in a historical setting. Shadow Gambit is pure fantasy land, Ghostly Golden Age of Piracy.

Not going for grounded and realistic doesn't mean it's now "woke" or "dangerhair".

:hmmm:

https://www.shadowgambit.com/dev-diary-2-character-design/ documents the awokening. They replaced a red-haired woman with a black woman. They consulted sensitivity experts. They made the serious men goofballs.

"Nooooooooo they're not woke. They made these changes because they just did!"


The decision to wrap up the studio has already been made, from what I read in their statement, so not sure if "paying off" was even a factor for them.
Perhaps they still chalk it up as a win if it's a game they wanted to make, which they admitted.

If Shadow Gambit gave them enough funding to fund multiple games, it seems unlikely they would have closed down anyway since they outright state the reason they shut down was because they were tired of scrambling for money. That's a non-issue if you made large profits like Swen did with Divinity Original Sin. They self-published this, all profits go directly to the company.

They already did strong female characters in their previous games. They also did female protagonists, c.f the first DLC to Shadow Tactics called Ako's Choice.

I am not a woman-hating reactionary like many other users here. Female protagonists and games with a lot of female characters aren't necessarily woke. Strong ugly women are woke.

spectre I appreciate your passion, but you're committing a grave mistake here. Everything Roguey has written so far is just a very wordy rationalization for his being unable to cope with the existence of black women. Everything else is irrelevant. The game could be a 10/10 masterpiece and he wouldn't care.
I've never seen a game with a set black female protagonist I liked but for what it's worth my character in Dragonfall was the one in the top middle.
b4ed5495d930d9edbca626a165f1b4db.jpg
 

spectre

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I am not a woman-hating reactionary like many other users here. Female protagonists and games with a lot of female characters aren't necessarily woke. Strong ugly women are woke.
Took us a bit, but thanks for actually blurting it out.
Strewth, no lithe waifus on me pirate ship. This be a challenging fap, yarr.

Fair's fair, although when it comes to woke, I'm personally much more annoyed when they act all ham-fisted, brandishing the victim card, at the same time being overtly racist themselves.
I've noticed no such thing in this game, in fact I was pleasantly surprised once the personal stories for each character unrolled. They managed to flesh them out
and make them all relatable. Even the goofy ones like the treasure hunter and the anchorman.
Also, there are no romances in this one, which is a much welcome relief these days.

I still dislike Afia as a character, think they tried to hard to make her cool. Had the same vibe with the ronin-ninja guy in ST.


Re-read that dev diary containing the offending "sensitivity experts." Ctlf-F'd it to see if I missed anything.
Moreover, we changed some of her details over time, such as the look of the seeds she is carrying around, after consulting with sensitivity experts.
I think they rightfully set them straight that watermelon seeds would be a bit of a nono.
 
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Taurist

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With hindsight maybe they should have tried another genre for their last game. I loved tacctics and Desperados, but I didnt buy this one because that itch had essentially been scratched for the time being.
AA development is a hard space, games can bomb for no reason, or reasons outwith your control. And for small companies thats just fatal. Im reminded of Grimrock 2.
 

JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I have the feeling that this is part of the general economic downturn in Germany.
It was already expensive to produce there but with consistently high energy prices it probably became unsustainable.
Yes, Germany is a horrible place to have a company in. Anyone sane is moving out to greener pastures.
 

JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Their main mistake was not moving the company to a country that doesn't hate its productive members of society and does everything in their power to steal from them like vultures picking a corpse.
Had they relocated to Eastern Europe, financing would never be a problem.
 
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Apparently it's great mechanically tho.

Weird, I used to play Commandos a lot back in the day but when I tried Shadow Tactics a few years ago it didn't click. A very good, quality game but I just wasn't having fun anymore with this genre.
You've played one of these games, you've played them all and they don't even look as pretty, as commandos/desperados looked for their time.
 

0wca

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Why must all good things in this timeline be destroyed? :negative:


I am not a woman-hating reactionary like many other users here. Female protagonists and games with a lot of female characters aren't necessarily woke. Strong ugly women are woke.
Took us a bit, but thanks for actually blurting it out.
Strewth, no lithe waifus on me pirate ship. This be a challenging fap, yarr.

Fair's fair, although when it comes to woke, I'm personally much more annoyed when they act all ham-fisted, brandishing the victim card, at the same time being overtly racist themselves.
I've noticed no such thing in this game, in fact I was pleasantly surprised once the personal stories for each character unrolled. They managed to flesh them out
and make them all relatable. Even the goofy ones.
Also, there are no romances in this one.

I still dislike Afia as a character, think they tried to hard to make her cool.


Re-read that dev diary containing the offending "sensitivity experts." Ctlf-F'd it to see if I missed anything.
Moreover, we changed some of her details over time, such as the look of the seeds she is carrying around, after consulting with sensitivity experts.
I think they rightfully set them straight that watermelon seeds would be a bit of a nono.

Ye look, to be fair, there was a woke-adjacent thing or two in this game but it wasn't saturated by it in any way.

Having a jamaican pirate captain isn't that weird since a lot of pirates operated in the Carribean (I know it's a fictional world but still).

The more "woke" thing was that she was female. Although (and I haven't finished the game yet so don't quote me on this), she refers to herself as 'navigator' and often refers to the actual captain (whose remains you retrieve in certain missions) as 'captain'.

To be honest, and this is just my own theory mind you, I've always seen the inquisition vs. weird pirates in this game as a metaphor for the woke brigade vs. everyone else.
 

spectre

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Well, the plot is basically that

the inquisitor wants to use the "memory magic" thingamajig of the Red Marley (the in-game explanation for the save/reload feature)
to forcefully remodel the world into the only right viewpoint and the only correct image - which can be seen in the final mission.
The message is obviously anti-authoritarian and anti-thought-policing, so everyone's free to draw their own conclusion about who's who.

Whereas Afia's plot is
she is going to take place as the ship's captain, the ship objects, still being hung on Mordechai and places her as the Navigator,
which a lot characters recognize as a silly position on a ship with self-consciousness.
The rest of her journey goes from the vague goal of getting the treasure and "doing something big" to earning the captaincy.

The resolution felt a tad banal for me, the crew votes Afia in, and the treasure is basically friends we made along the way,
or more specifically in the achievements you can unlock as you replay the missions.
Well, as far as I am concerned, the game's narrative strength is more in the mirror missions for the crewmembers.
 

puur prutswerk

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So are Commandos-likes dead for the foreseeable future now?

That's pretty sad, I really enjoyed the original Desperados. I even finished it. I tried to play Desperados 3, but stopped playing during the tutorial because some figurative alarm bells started ringing. I wonder what really happened since their last game after that trooned out completely judging by the art?

I wonder what they threaten people who do not comply with.
 

gabel

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Well, Shadow Gambit is the third reskin and the setting and characters are utterly unappealing. Shadow Tactics was excellent though (the standalone expansion Aiko's Choice is good as well, but too short at full price), and Desperados 3 was also still very enjoyable, despite the stronk womyn.

Sad, but the decline was predictable.
 
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VerSacrum

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Didn't care much for their games. The last Commandos clone I liked was Robin Hood: Legends of Sherwood. The 2D rendered castles in that game still look gorgeous and if you like that niche you should really give it a try.
 

puur prutswerk

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Didn't care much for their games. The last Commandos clone I liked was Robin Hood: Legends of Sherwood. The 2D rendered castles in that game still look gorgeous and if you like that niche you should really give it a try.
I tried it, but I quit after the disposable units were introduced. Should I try again? Do you have to dispose of the units? Or is the game perfectly playable without their loss?
 

oldbonebrown

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Shadow Tactics was terrific but for me Desperados 3 went in the wrong direction, and I completely lost interest when that new game of theirs just seemed to steer even further away from what I wanted, a hardcore tactical stealth game
 
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I have the feeling that this is part of the general economic downturn in Germany.
It was already expensive to produce there but with consistently high energy prices it probably became unsustainable.
Yes, Germany is a horrible place to have a company in. Anyone sane is moving out to greener pastures.
Merkelbros...
 

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