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Esquilax

Arcane
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Messages
4,833
I think you meant, Anthony Sommers' evil-er twin, Baltika9. Which is pretty impressive, considering Sommers covered up the molestation and murder of a child so he could strengthen his political connections. Hell, even Sommers has a certain sense of loyalty to those who are close to him. Dio doesn't even have that.

Why not go for D if you're going for C? At least D has the slimmest of possibilities of him allowing us to stay. C just immediately torches all of the bridges. D will at worst be equivalent to C.

Because it doesn't make much sense to me character-wise. Dio isn't sorry for what he did, he's only sorry that he got caught. Also... it seems kinda pathetic:

You REPENT! For real! Maybe you really have been too much of an asshole. You really do feel guilty for all your misdeeds. You throw yourself on his mercy, because you are too much of a wimp to continue being a total scumbag if it turns out you aren’t the king of the world and that karma is about to catch up.

The part about being too much of a wimp makes me cringe - being spineless in a world of deadly court politics seems like a very shitty idea. If Dio ever does undergo a complete 180 in terms of personality, it should be after a much more powerful/traumatic experience than this. So Dio got figured out, big deal, why would that make him repent?

Smashing Axe, individually, the murders aren't suspicious, you're absolutely right. But as a whole it becomes very suspicious. We've covered our tracks very well, but once you put the pieces together, things definitely start looking askew. It wasn't long ago that Dio was a member of some obscure House that nobody gave a fuck about. Since then, both his father and betrothed have committed suicide (with the Unata family suspecting foul play), and now Runikylos' right-hand man has mysteriously disappeared, with Dio presumably taking his position. It's not concrete, sure, but this is clearly a very strange set of coincidences. One or two deaths can be passed off as tragedies, but this death won't, given our recent history.

But let's say you're right and Runikylos doesn't notice anything. That might be just as bad. Consider this:

Hope you guys considered that by virtue of being the Prince and heir, Runikylos would have people that have an interest in him watching and vetting his staff in secret, even if he doesn't know about it himself. I mean, Dio isn't exactly squeaky-clean here...

Right now, we are the second most-trusted of Runikylos' aides. Once he's gone, we'll probably have to assume Aodh's coveted position, which will stir up a lot of attention and jealousy. Even though Runikylos might not notice anything, once we usurp Aodh's position, someone else will begin to connect the dots. At this point, our rise to power has been meteoric - from the member of a weak noble House to right-hand of the Prince in six months - someone is bound to see the inconsistencies. Look at this:

Runikylos laughs. “I know my sister is a bit of a handful, but it looks like you two are getting along very well. Lately you’re all she talks about. I suppose we could -” You give him a slightly sad smile, and he stops. “Right. Pardon me, it’s not even been half a year.”

It was still too soon. Your position was still insecure.

We're almost a victim of our own quick success, I think, and as a result, our position is insecure and we've got no friends. Remember why we aren't getting married yet - people would start getting suspicious otherwise. Having Aodh disappear then subsequently usurping his position (we'd pretty much have to at that point) will not help matters here. B2 would probably allow for a more permanent solution by calling in a favour that the masked man, but I'd rather learn more about him before becoming indebted to him.

As a result, what I'm advocating here is to take a step back so that we can take two steps forward. We admit Aodh is the better man, we bow and scrape and play the game as a good courtier must, then we seek power elsewhere temporarily so that we can come back in a stronger position. Trying desperately to hold on to power that we're barely able to grasp will end poorly, I'm certain of it. Our position right now is very tenuous, and reining it in so we can get benefits in the long-term is the right call in this situation.

However, you're right that in the short-term (next few weeks, months) at least, we should be fine with A2:

A slightly amused smile creeps across Aodh’s lips, incongruous with his nervous tic. It looks like he wasn’t as nice as Runikylos, despite his appearance, though he may be nearly as naïve. He was too confident that he had the upper hand, and it showed. “I won’t lie to you. I’m the only one who knows. Are you thinking that you can dispose of me and keep your secret safe? D-d-do you really want to kill someone again?”

No wonder Aodh had mediocre scores in school, because he clearly isn't very savvy. He's very confident, yet he hasn't done his homework by telling anybody or gathering evidence as insurance. The man is certainly no Astarth.
 

Baltika9

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Messages
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I think you meant, Anthony Sommers' evil-er twin, Baltika9. Which is pretty impressive, considering Sommers covered up the molestation and murder of a child so he could strengthen his political connections. Hell, even Sommers has a certain sense of loyalty to those who are close to him. Dio doesn't even have that.
Yeah, I really want to see Ean's mind awaken, take a look at Dio's deeds and mind-slap him with a "The fuck are you doing, bitch?"

There is another problem with C:
The man is certainly no Astarth.
Yet. Just because Dio is gone, does not mean he will get complacent. Oh no, with his mind-reading powers, he can quickly earn the confidence of his superiors, especially if they grow.
Besides which, I get the feeling that, since he's the closest to Ean's morality, he will be our biggest problem, as he will do what is right, not what is smart.
Also, inb4 moral alignment with Ean accelerates power unlocks.

Then again, I really want to see what treave will do to Rus'. Dio's comeback could bring an entire principality, if not country, into the Imperial fold and significantly increase his standing. However, with C, I insist on killing the Prophet. My storyfaggotry demands more!
Edit: also, anyone know how to create a hyperlink here? I can't seem to get the HTML code to work.
Never mind.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
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Messages
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Just because Dio is gone, does not mean he will get complacent. Oh no, with his mind-reading powers, he can quickly earn the confidence of his superiors, especially if they grow.
Besides which, I get the feeling that, since he's the closest to Ean's morality, he will be our biggest problem, as he will do what is right, not what is smart.
Also, inb4 moral alignment with Ean accelerates power unlocks.

Then again, I really want to see what treave will do to Rus'. Dio's comeback could bring an entire principality, if not country, into the Imperial fold and significantly increase his standing. However, with C, I insist on killing the Prophet. My story faggotry demands more!

This is somewhat true, but Aodh isn't really squeaky-clean himself either. Yes, he's not the level of scumbag that Diogenes is - though, to be fair, few people are - but the update indicates that he isn't really morally upstanding either:

Your expression dissolves into one of crest-fallen resignation. “Who else knows of this?”

A slightly amused smile creeps across Aodh’s lips, incongruous with his nervous tic. It looks like he wasn’t as nice as Runikylos, despite his appearance, though he may be nearly as naïve. He was too confident that he had the upper hand, and it showed. “I won’t lie to you. I’m the only one who knows. Are you thinking that you can dispose of me and keep your secret safe? D-d-do you really want to kill someone again?”

There is definitely more to him than wanting to protect the Prince, he definitely has ambitions of his own. Dio seems to be a superb judge of character, and I think that Aodh wants to ride the Prince's coattails simply because he isn't clever and savvy enough to do so on his own. Yes, his power might increase to a certain extent while we're on our self-imposed exile, but Dio is far better at this game than Aodh is.

Like I said, if we rein in our ambition for now, it will pay dividends. We've grasped for too much power too quickly, and I feel that it's given us no foundation to stand on. If we take some time to build up a power base somewhere else and remain patient, it will pay off.

Plus that's not getting into the possibility of regeneration with A2 causing us a shitload of problems. It would be funny to have a reincarnated Aodh walking into our wedding with Runikylos' sister. :lol:

So yeah, the real choice for me is either B2 or C.
 

Baltika9

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Like I said, if we rein in our ambition for now, it will pay dividends. We've grasped for too much power too quickly, and I feel that it's given us no foundation to stand on. If we take some time to build up a power base somewhere else and remain patient, it will pay off.
And where would you plan to go, hmm? (;) hint hint) But, seriously, if we do choose C, we'd better come back with a giant power base and dispose of the other fragments. Aodh is naive an eager, yes, but he is also young. Experience will teach him, just you wait, and if we come in too late, we may be squaring off against Varys the Spider in his own web. Which should be fun, if not deadly.

Really, all you need for my support is one magic word. Edit: make that two three.

Also, shameless plug: Cassidy has an amazing CYOA LP which can be summed up as "PS:T in the New World with Vikings and Odinism in the 11th century. With Byzantium and the Varangian Guard." Help keep it alive bros.
If you ignore this message, then you are a horrible LARPing BioWhore and should feel bad about the little boys you keep in your basement.
:rpgcodex:
 

treave

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Codex 2012
Plus that's not getting into the possibility of regeneration with A2 causing us a shitload of problems. It would be funny to have a reincarnated Aodh walking into our wedding with Runikylos' sister. :lol:

At that point I fully expect you guys will make Dio take the Princess hostage in an attempt to escape.
 

Baltika9

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Messages
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Plus that's not getting into the possibility of regeneration with A2 causing us a shitload of problems. It would be funny to have a reincarnated Aodh walking into our wedding with Runikylos' sister. :lol:

At that point I fully expect you guys will make Dio take the Princess hostage in an attempt to escape.
Fuck that. Implant a suggestion into her mind, make her run towards Aodh for "protection" and then stab him through the heart. A-la Shulgi in Akkad.
Edit: huh, it IS good to be bad.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
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Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Going to Rus sounds very stupid. I don't understand your obsession with that place. If we pick C, the only logical choice would be to go to Free Scania:

“We went to the Academy together, though we were in different classes. Your thesis on the benefits of the continued independence of Free Scania was extremely interesting.”
...
“I thought the First Emperor liked the wall?” you mutter, looking at the reports. They were a cult that was centered mainly in the north, believing that the Emperor had reincarnated in their leader, a man named Jannik Inge. Sources had it that they were funded by Free Scania, who sought to use the cult to undermine the Empire and regain control of Skane. “You did send someone to investigate them, right?”

We'll go there incognito, and using both our extensive knowledge of the region and our ability to ingratiate ourselves with the cultists, we can build up a power base from there. Should our efforts be successful, we can return to the Empire lauded as a hero, using that as leverage against Aodh. We'll also learn more about our situation as well by meeting another of Ean's incarnations, and perhaps the mysterious masked man.

Likewise, I don't see the long-term benefits of A2. Okay, so we kill Aodh, but then what? We'll draw more suspicion and attention onto ourselves by grasping power so quickly, and even then, Aodh might simply regenerate and come back to haunt us at an extremely inconvenient time. B2 would work and probably get rid of Aodh permanently, but I want to know more about our mysterious benefactor before we keep asking for favours.

Edit: Oh yeah, and as Kipeci noted, we only really have telekinesis right now. Ean is fragmented, so his powers are split between various incarnations.

Btw, as a side note, I believe that Aodh would be the character that we would have played as had we chosen A at the beginning of the chapter.
 

Kipeci

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I don't think we can implant suggestions.

There is the possibility of using our telekinesis to force her arm to stab him with... something sharp in the nearby vicinity, I guess. That could be troubling, though... if our telekinesis can move body parts around, couldn't we just squash their heart or something? That seems like it would be pretty outlawed. Granted, I don't think we've had much call to go practicing that skill even if it could exist...

Edit: I don't see how any of this stuff about building a power base in foreign countries will work. Okay, so we go to Free Scania and kerfuffle about until some cultists like us and maybe don't kill as many folks in the Empire, hopefully without this getting us killed by the powers that be in Free Scania. Then what? If we return to the empire, Aodh's only going to be stronger, and he still has us by the short hairs and will no doubt still have the evidence of our crimes. He can shut us down in an instant even in the unlikely case that everything somehow turns up swimmingly elsewhere.

Note that if we kill him, we don't need to usurp everything. Remember, we're not the only guy in the prince's service... we've just got our foot firmly in the door. The cost to get that foot there was extremely high, and I'd rather not just remove it so that the door can slam shut in our faces based off of people maybe getting suspicious and chances of being able to get back to the exact same situation in the future.
 

Baltika9

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Jun 27, 2012
Messages
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Going to Rus sounds very stupid. I don't understand your obsession with that place. If we pick C, the only logical choice would be to go to Free Scania:

Because rolling into an oppressed nation with our superpowers and political savvy opens up many, many possibilities down the road: the most obvious is going "lol King", but there are subtler alternatives. As in, becoming the power behind the king, or extending our influence, becoming king, consolidating our power base and then offering to join the Empire with our lands. It would give us enormous amounts of prestige and social standing, not in the least from the legend we can build up around us. Besides, being a "magnanimous national hero" will silence any protestations from our accusers. It's their word against an entire nation's "fact".
Free Scania, on the other hand, is not a simple beast. Their Emperor might decie that he's better off offing Dio, or the Watchers may discover us working with a cult aimed at undermining the real Emperor's legitimacy, that will fuck us over, and besides which, Free Scania isn't a fan of the Empire.
Rus' is also better because Rus' is still, from what I understand of treave's map and description, made up of loose tribes ruled over by petty kings making them much easier to unite. Scania, on the other hand, is a developed and unified Empire, and our meddling, if discovered by any side, may very well be fatal.
Besides, Nevskiy is my childhood hero. You can't seriously expect me to pass this up.

treave, random question: how many different women has Dio bedded? Any higher-class ladies among their numbers? It is very important.
 

treave

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Codex 2012
treave, random question: hoe many different women has Dio bedded? Any higher-class ladies among their numbers? It is very important.

Very few, because he's smart enough not to do it when he already has a fiancee (loyal son, good fiance etc) and smart enough not to go all Rennephilio style after his fiancee has recently died. Also it would be fucking stupid for him to bed higher-class ladies when he already has a princess to marry. Getting too involved with too many women without the personal power to back it up should their husbands find out has been the downfall of many would-be scheming Lotharios in the Empire.
 

Kipeci

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Vicksburg
Just how is everyone intending to gain power in a foreign land, again? It'd be one thing if we were fully Ean and could go one man army and annihilate their nonsense, but we can only push a few things with our mind for right now. We only got this chance in the empire due to help from extremely shady individuals, noble blood, and managing to make the emperor feel guilty after going through immense personal sacrifices... all of which we're apparently just going to flush straight down the toilet so we can go somewhere else.

Exactly how do we plan to influence Free Scania or Russian tribes/whatever else? We don't even know their languages, except for possibly some of what's going on in Scania. We're probably not going to be able to pull a Tsar Stephen the Little here.
 

Baltika9

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Exactly how do we plan to influence Free Scania or Russian tribes/whatever else? We don't even know their languages, except for possibly some of what's going on in Scania. We're probably not going to be able to pull a Tsar Stephen the Little here.
C is an extremely long-term gamble. Our exile won't be a matter of months, but years. If not decades. All this time will be spent making sure Dio uses all his talents to maximum effect, so that when he comes back, nothing will be able to stop him.
If we don't do that, then it will have been a waste of time.
Also, anyone else think that Thorogood was thinking about Dio the whole "Bad to the Bone" song?
 

Kipeci

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So, by your own thoughts going with C will depend entirely on KKKodexian democracy to go for the most effective schemes and not screw up for years so as not to have been a waste of time that screwed us over?
What could possibly go wrong?
 

Smashing Axe

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Divinity: Original Sin
Smashing Axe, individually, the murders aren't suspicious, you're absolutely right. But as a whole it becomes very suspicious. We've covered our tracks very well, but once you put the pieces together, things definitely start looking askew. It wasn't long ago that Dio was a member of some obscure House that nobody gave a fuck about. Since then, both his father and betrothed have committed suicide (with the Unata family suspecting foul play), and now Runikylos' right-hand man has mysteriously disappeared, with Dio presumably taking his position. It's not concrete, sure, but this is clearly a very strange set of coincidences. One or two deaths can be passed off as tragedies, but this death won't, given our recent history.

But you have to put the pieces together first, and there's no reason to do so, nor will it be easy. You're forgetting that we're one of countless courtiers, we're not the sole person with a connection to Aodh, I am sure there are many others who would have a reason for offing him, we're amongst the least likely as it is, all seemingly noble and good as we are. All scrutiny will not be focused on us. It's not like the investigators are going to think "Hmm, if I recall Aodh didn't feel easy around Dio. Dio has dead relatives. Therefore he must be the murderer!"

We're almost a victim of our own quick success, I think, and as a result, our position is insecure and we've got no friends. Remember why we aren't getting married yet - people would start getting suspicious otherwise. Having Aodh disappear then subsequently usurping his position (we'd pretty much have to at that point) will not help matters here. B2 would probably allow for a more permanent solution by calling in a favour that the masked man, but I'd rather learn more about him before becoming indebted to him.

As a result, what I'm advocating here is to take a step back so that we can take two steps forward. We admit Aodh is the better man, we bow and scrape and play the game as a good courtier must, then we seek power elsewhere temporarily so that we can come back in a stronger position. Trying desperately to hold on to power that we're barely able to grasp will end poorly, I'm certain of it. Our position right now is very tenuous, and reining it in so we can get benefits in the long-term is the right call in this situation.

Yes, a lot of attention and jealousy will be focused on us, but we're a political dynamo, only the unexpected occurrence of being in close contact with a spy who has super telepathy powers lead to us slipping, we can prepare for this easily enough if we're successful in removing Aodh from the picture. How we are to remove him I'm not sure, B1 and B2 may work just as well as A2, if not better. I'd be in favour of risking any of those. Regardless, there's not many dots to connect, we're a brilliant actor and the few things connecting us to the murders are provinces away. Our position is insecure, true, but we should be attempting to secure it, not running away to exile at the first sign of resistance.
 

oscar

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NZ
I get more of a scheming Machiavelli vibe than a suave ladies man
 

Tigranes

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Messages
10,350
Esquilax I'm just hesitant to give up what we've done over the last few updates at the first sign of trouble. I guess the terms of the 'exile' is important; would we remain to-be-married of the princess, and retain the favour of the Prince? Perhaps, perhaps not. (If Aodh is not an idiot, as soon as we have left he will spill the beans anyway, or some of it, to ensure that we lose every shred of power and recognition within the empire as we leave.) I just feel like it throws away so much, and the fact that we have 4 choices out of 6 that involve staying suggests that they wouldn't all lead to "haha telepathy you are fucked".
 

treave

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Codex 2012
Esquilax I guess the terms of the 'exile' is important; would we remain to-be-married of the princess, and retain the favour of the Prince?

Terms of exile: this can be clarified. He'll want you to leave almost immediately after giving you a bit of time to pack, without saying a word to anyone.

4 choices out of 6 that involve staying suggests that they wouldn't all lead to "haha telepathy you are fucked".

This is correct. I'm not saying you can't get fucked in other ways though.
 

Baltika9

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So, just so everyone's on the same page here, the exile-power building plans Esquilax and I discussed are theoretically possible, correct?
 

treave

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Codex 2012
If you actually end up leaving after deciding to, yes. I'm afraid the plot of this chapter isn't going to wait around for you to spend years mucking about overseas, though, so Diogenes could just become this threat that an Ean faces later on, or you could continue playing Diogenes and attempt to take on the self-claimed God-Emperor of the Shinar. You will lose your chance to really embrace your destiny and become Ean if you leave. Either way is fine with me, but Option C isn't as simple as "lol fine I go to Russia".
 

Baltika9

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Well, that settles that. Like I said previously, trading in Ean for Dio is a no-sell for me. That leaves A2 and B2, and since I like hands on villains... However, B2 has many merits as well, subtlety foremost. I think A2 may be overstretching our fortune.
 

Smashing Axe

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Divinity: Original Sin
Okay, presuming that we don't choose to flee or repent our evil, evil ways, we have several options to consider, and I'm still not sure which one seems best. I'm going to be meta, since, well, if we weren't meta we wouldn't know this guy could read minds, which is self-defeating.

A1 is suicide. It's not worth discussing really.​

A2 has the potential for surprising the spy and killing him so he doesn't cause further problems for us. That said, we don't know the full extent of his capabilities or if he can defend from our telepathic blast. If we don't choose this option then there's a chance the spy acts against us whilst we are preparing to off him.​

B1 I don't think this option will work, simply because our opponent has telepathy and can prepare easily enough against a mortal offense. That said, he may only catch glimpses of our intentions and not know where or when when we will strike, but that will give him time to prepare counter-measures and oust us.​

B2 I think this will work, if this shadowy dude wants our cooperation, then the more leverage he gets over us, the more confident he'll feel we're in his pocket. The consequences of our choosing this option are too varied for speculation, but I think it will work, presuming he doesn't also want to utilise Aodh as he does us. I feel this option will surmount any preparation Aodh might make, he might know that we're preparing to turn against him, but he won't know the supernatural capabilities our patron wields. He won't be able to counter.​

So suffice to say, I can't make my mind up between A2 and B2. I think both have the potential for working, but with different consequences. B2 is more likely to work, but with a greater cost
 

Tigranes

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It would be hilarious if B2 led to "hey we don't care which Ean wins, why should we help you".

I think what treave says definitely rules C out. I like Dio and I want to lead him to glory. I can't quite decide between A2 and B2 either, I'm only on A2 at the moment because it's a bolder action with the best rewards for success. With B2, though, there's a higher chance that if it doesn't work out we can just really go ahead with an exile, or, even, go into hiding within the Empire / Ankida.
 

treave

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Codex 2012
Uh... option C might start with the premise of going into exile, but I said it wasn't simple as that. The update won't be one where you just choose where to go. There'll be other options on offer. And that's all I'll say, you guys know enough to work out the rest.
 

Azira

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Codex 2012
We've been beat here guys. Trying to do the brute force thing would be messy and unlike Dio. Acknowledge defeat, get ready to leave. Pick option C.
I get a distinct feeling that even if we offer to willingly go into exile, it isn't as simple as that. There are other people around that don't want to see us leave.
Play into Aodh's bluff, he said that he would keep our name clean. If he's the honorable Ean shard, then he won't go back on this.
If other, strong players, then move for our continued presence in the capital, but possibly a bit away from the prince, then we will be set to outmaneuver Aodh.

Going all brutal with the killings doesn't seem too much in character for Dio. We have a strong hunch that Aodh is the watcher choice from a couple of updates back. We know that Dio is exhibiting strange powers, Aodh as well. But we don't quite know what the extent of those powers is. We don't know if the masked man will be willing to help us either.
Nope. I stick with my vote.

C
 

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