[LP CYOA] 傳

[Baltika9]

Not quite: for one, after our display of self control in the tournament, there is minimal risk of Jing killing anyone on accident. Seriously.
Accepting the duel is actually the diplomatic thing to do, as it diffuses the tension with Songfeng. We're not instigating anything, we are the one being challenged. Declining it like this is just a spit in the face and paints us as a cowardly douche to the orthodoxes. Which means we'll likely be behind enemy lines and exhausted when they decide to fuck us over.

But if you want to give our patron god more blood and skulls, hey, I'm all for it. IIts the only way we'll survive a double-cross.

 

[Absinthe]

Not quite: for one, after our display of self control in the tournament, there is minimal risk of Jing killing anyone on accident. Seriously.

Dude. There's a difference between clean fights and this shit.

Accepting the duel is actually the diplomatic thing to do, as it diffuses the tension with Songfeng.

I'm pretty sure we're inflaming it. How long are you going to ignore that the leader of Songfeng is completely opposed to this? And the other sides would rather avoid violence as well. Also, you realize that beating up people who hate you isn't going to earn their approval, right? Any respect we get out of that is going to be through gritted teeth and followed with a silent "I'll get that bastard." Even Rong Muben can't keep to his non-confrontational approach if we decide to start fighting them. Shit is going to be on.

We're not instigating anything, we are the one being challenged.

"He started it." Seriously, that's a shit argument.

Declining it like this is just a spit in the face and paints us as a cowardly douche to the orthodoxes.

Or it paints us as the better man for walking away from pointless violence. And Rong Muben, the leader, does not want to fight us. Let him do his job and tell his students to get their asses in order and not pursue these grudges. They have better priorities, as do we.

Which means we'll likely be behind enemy lines and exhausted when they decide to fuck us over.

If they try any shit, I'm sure we'll manage. I don't think they can outstealth Jing.

But if you want to give our patron god more blood and skulls, hey, I'm all for it. IIts the only way we'll survive a double-cross.

Or, you know, we could escape.

 

[Baltika9]

It's like Esquilax said, it's like bullying. People hate us just because of Master Zhang, but aren't trying anything for the same reasons. We dodged two fights and this time we have no excuse. Will give some jokers the confidence to try and do some things when they can get away with it.

 

[Zero Credibility]

The only people that want to see a fight here with us are the Songfeng disciples, nobody else. The host sure as hell doesn't want one. The other masters don't want one - that's why Gong proposed the B solution. The crowd doesn't want one either.

ORLY?

Yes, really. Why else do you think Gong proposed what he did in the first place? He did it to to stop a fight from breaking out right here and now. And the crowd likes Gong's idea. Again, nobody but the disciples wants a fight here - some of them because they do not to fight us, others because it it counterproductive to the whole campaign to start fighting between ourselves before it even starts.

We called him out for throwing a hissy fit and trying to bail on us with his whole school in tow. Something that nobody can accuse us of. One way or the other, we will still be participating.

We called him out for throwing a hissy fit after he tried to leave because he didn't want to work with the murderer of his son. To me that actually sounds like a pretty damn good excuse. What excuse do we have for starting a fight against clear wishes of the guy in charge here - our injured pride?

I want to tie that loose end before it weaves itself into something more sinister.

And you think that beating them here is going to do that? It's only going to give them even more reasons to try to get us killed during the battle. Now they would also have their injured pride to avenge as well.

 

[Nevill]

Out of the factions present, it's only the Songfeng school that's out for Jing's blood, and its leader Rong Muben is very adamant that "the Songfeng Sword School would not take vengeance for Zhiyu’s untimely demise" so if we fight 'em that flies out of the window.

How so? Can you explain?
He will not avenge his son, but HE WILL MURDER US FOR PARTICIPATING IN A MATCH THEY INVITED US TO. How does it even make sense?

If we don't kill them, we've still caused trouble by starting these fights and injuring people. There's also a decent chance Jing will come out of this injured, possibly even poisoned, or otherwise worn which will damage our performance against the pirates, who we are trying to make money off of.

Injuring people in a friendly match. Now you are thinking with portals. And poisons? Because Songfeng is known as a school that incorporates poisons in their fighting style.
It is one thing to use poison in an attempt to take over the sect, but what makes you think their disciples carry it with them all the time, 24/7?

 

[Nevill]

Yes, really. Why else do you think Gong proposed what he did in the first place?

To propose a cop-out that would please everyone. Which is another way to say "that pleases noone", and also works to everyone's detriment.

We called him out for throwing a hissy fit after he tried to leave because he didn't want to work with the murderer of his son. To me that actually sounds like a pretty damn good excuse. What excuse do we have for starting a fight against clear wishes of the guy in charge here - our injured pride?

I think you are missing something here.

“That is right, Master Gong,” says Rong Muben, joining in on Zhou Dingqiu’s side. “When the people are in trouble, we must help them. They are the livelihood of the country; we cannot let pride force us to reject help.”

“Is that pride I hear speaking?” you call out. Rong Muben turns around, glowering at you wordlessly. You continue, “Is the suffering of the people less important than your integrity, Master Rong?”

We had a right to call him out on it. We do not need an excuse - unlike him, we never made any claims.

And you think that beating them here is going to do that? It's only give them even more reasons to try to get us killed during the battle.

If we beat them with six-to-one odds (which is totally doable, they are far worse than Emei), they will be too afraid to try this shit. Let's not let them have any ideas that they can fuck with us.

 

[Nevill]

Declining it like this is just a spit in the face and paints us as a cowardly douche to the orthodoxes.

Or it paints us as the better man for walking away from pointless violence. And Rong Muben, the leader, does not want to fight us. Let him do his job and tell his students to get their asses in order and not pursue these grudges. They have better priorities, as do we.

But if you want to give our patron god more blood and skulls, hey, I'm all for it. Its the only way we'll survive a double-cross.

Or, you know, we could escape.

Walk away. Escape. Jing. Suuure.

Still, to be chased out by them now - to retreat - is an idea that irks you too much to even consider...

Are we even reading the same LP? Who do you think our character is?

 

[Absinthe]

Sorry Nevill, but at this point you've left logic far enough that I know better than to engage this.

 

[Zero Credibility]

To propose a cop-out that would please everyone. Which is another way to say "that pleases noone", and also works to everyone's detriment.

Eh? It pleases our host because it means we don't start maiming people in his home. It pleases the people in charge by not disrupting this whole thing more before it even starts and by reminding everyone who the real enemy is. It pleases the crowd because it means they don't have to fight us. The only people it doesn't please are the disciples, and fuck them.

We had a right to call him out on it. We do not need an excuse - unlike him, we never made any claims.

We said we are here to help against the pirates. Then we called him out on leaving now, even though he had a pretty good reason to. And now we are going to start a fight among ourselves against the wishes of people in charge before we even see a pirate. Because of what, our injured pride? What are the people here going to see - a hothead that can't stand the thought of being challenged even if it means starting a fight with the people he is supposed to be here to help less then a minute after lecturing someone on their pride?

If we beat them with six-to-one odds (which is totally doable, they are far worse than Emei), they will be too afraid to try this shit. Let's not let them have any ideas that they can fuck with us.

Or they'll just wait until our back is turned while we are busy fighting the pirates. Personally, I'm betting on this. None of the options are getting us out of the fight with these guys latter on.

 

[Nevill]

It pleases the crowd because it means they don't have to fight us.

Where does that come from? The crowd does not have to fight us in A, either.
They want to see us getting kicked out (hence them gripping their swords and doing threatening poses), but they are too afraid to act on it.

Really, the choice is between pleasing the crowd (A). the masters (B) or the host (C). And since we will be going in the field with the generic Joes, I am throwing my lot in with them.

Because of what, our injured pride?

Because that is one of the ways people offered us to get a right to participate that serves our goals. The only ones that are adamant on not working with us are the Songfeng bunch, and they promised to shut up if we do this. So we do this to shut them up - and because it it much better for us to settle things with them that way.

Or they'll just wait until our back is turned while we are busy fighting the pirates.

And do what? If we can take six of them, we send a message that we can fend them off with our eyes closed and hands tied. They are much more likely to backstab us if they do not know what we are capable of.

Sorry Nevill, but at this point you've left logic far enough that I know better than to engage this.

Hey, at least I am trying to back my position up with what I see written in the updates. Instead of, y'know, this:

I vote B>C. Getting the captain head is quite doable. Don't forget the goal is to "sneak in under cover of darkness" and Jing can run in with Stealth 5. Sorry but I want to put his ninja skills to the test.

How is going ninja an argument in favor of anything here? Our plan does not change whether we go A, or B, or C.
Once the ships start burning, the stealth part of the mission is over.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Where does that come from? The crowd does not have to fight us in A, either. They want to see us getting kicked out (hence them gripping their swords and doing threatening poses), but they are too afraid to act on it.

Really, the choice is between pleasing the crowd (A). the masters (B) or the host (C). And since we will be going in the field with the generic Joes, I am throwing my lot in with them.

Because it is specifically stated the crowd likes the B option. So by choosing B we please the crowd and the people in charge. With A we piss off the guys in charge and intimidate the crowd into working with us.

Because that is one of the ways people offered us to get a right to participate that serves our goals. The only ones that are adamant on not working with us are Songfeng bunch, and they promosed to shut up if we do this. So we do this to shut them up - and because it it much better for us to settle things with them that way.

And we should believe them they would just drop the whole thing? After beating them? I'm not that optimistic. They were ready to openly attacks us earlier, and now we would only be adding more shit for them to avenge.

And do what? If we can take six of them, we send a message that we can fend them off with our eyes closed and hands tied. They are much more likely to backstab us if they do not know what we are capable of.

We would take them out in a fair "friendly" match. When they move against us later (and they will - with A we only give them more reasons to do so) they would make sure it is not in a fair way. Even the greatest fighter is vulnerable to a stab in the back and that's what these assholes are going to try if they can't take us on in a straight fight.

 

[Nevill]

Because it is specifically stated the crowd likes the B option.

The crowd likes B option because it gives them a way out.

The hall seems to like Master Gong’s idea – Songfeng aside, none of them seem overly keen to fight you.

So it A. So is C. But they want someone to fight you, the just don't want to be the ones risking their lives.

All of the pugilists seem to be on guard, ready to fight at a moment’s notice. “What is this? Are all of you going to pile on me? Who will make the first move? I do not think this is a good start to your anti-pirate alliance if you start losing people even before you set foot on the island.” They back away nervously as your gaze meets theirs.

And we should believe them they would just drop the whole thing? After beating them? I'm not that optimistic. They were ready to openly attacks us earlier, and now we would only be adding more shit for them to avenge.

No, but is solves the situation on hand - "it's either him, or us". We keep the alliance together, and we keep the Songfeng bunch in check. With just six people here they won't be able to pull anything, and we will get them a first-hand demonstration of that.

When they move against us later (and they will - with A we only give them more reasons to do so) they would make sure it is not in a fair way.

Out of A and B, which is the option that has the biggest chance of this happening? They won't be 'stabbing us in our back fairly' with B, either. At least we give them the reason to steer clear of us.

Or what, do you expect them to challenge us to a fair duel in the middle of the battle in B?

 

[Baltika9]

Only A also prohibits them from seeking further retaliation. Once it's done and over with, the deal is closed and neither party can do shit about it even if they want to, without breaking public face. For Master Rong, that is tantamount to heresy.
And B probably also turns the pirate hunt operation into a free-for-all Capture The Flag scenario, with the various parties trying to one-up one another (They're competing for the head and glory? Fuck the East Coast, West Coast represent! We're gonna get that head) which just undermines the mission.

 

[Smashing Axe]

B>A

I like the guy who is organising the hunt, so I prioritise B over A, I refuse to even consider C.

 

[Kipeci]

You know, somehow I'm fine with this being a reverse contest for the first one hundred beheadings type thing.

 

[Baltika9]

Fair enough, let's worship Zhang.
BLOOD FOR HIS GOBLET AND SKULLS FOR HIS RECLINER!

 

[Smashing Axe]

I can't remember if I've mentioned this conspiracy theory before, but I think given our mysterious parentage, we're probably the bastard son of some member of the imperial family. There were a lot of brothers before the succession crisis. Of course, this is mere conjecture based on an old narrative convention.

 

[Zero Credibility]

The crowd likes B option because it gives them a way out.

Who cares why they like it, they like it. They sure as hell are not going to like us beating these guys in A. So I strongly disagree with your assessment that A would please the crowd - no, it wont (well, not unless we let them beat us). B pleases the crowd (because they don't have to fight us) and the guys in charge (because we don't cause even more problems for them). The only people it doesn't please are the assholes that challenged us.

No, but is solves the situation on hand - "it's either him, or us".

No, it really doesn't. They now hate us even more and are going to try something if given half a chance. The rest are just going to be intimidated by us. So everyone (including the people in charge) is either going to hate us or fear us. Or possibly both. Not exactly what I would look for in people I'm going into battle with. With B we at least don't piss off the guys in charge and remind everyone who the real enemy is at the same time. Some of them are going to hate / fear us no matter what, but at least we don't make things worse.

Or what, do you expect them to challenge us to a fair duel in the middle of the battle in B?

Not really, no. But with A you pretty much ensure the only way it's going down is by backstabbing us while we are busy fighting a bunch of pirates.

 

[Baltika9]

Oh please, it's obvious that we're the grandson of the traitor general Yang Xue, and the son of his son from the woman he betrayed his country for, Zhang Jue.

 

[Ifeex]

B>A.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

A - If we pick B we will just be ambushed by the little hotheads during the mission.

 

[Nevill]

They sure as hell are not going to like us beating these guys in A. So I strongly disagree with your assessment that A would please the crowd - no, it wont (well, not unless we let them beat us). B pleases the crowd (because they don't have to fight us) and the guys in charge (because we don't cause even more problems for them). The only people it doesn't please are the assholes that challenged us.

'Like' and 'please' may be unfortinate choise of words here. I do not expect hugs and kisses. What I do expect from A, though, is a certain measure of respect mixed with awe when we will prove that we alone are worth six of their fighters. It will stop all further questions along the lines of 'why are we cooperatng with that guy, again?' Having a warrior of such strenght and skill on their team will help the team's morale, however you spin it.

In B, tales of our prowess will only fuel their desire to one-up us, instead of bolstering their spirits.

Look, if we leave the Sonfeng disciples unattended, they are going to try something stupid either way. They hate us guts. It isn't going to be fair either way. Thus, it would be better to give them a clear and audible warning not to mess with us, and hope that the most clever out of the bunch would get it.

With B we at least don't piss off the guys in charge and remind everyone who the real enemy is at the same time.

Sure. The enemy is Xu Jing, and the head of the pirate leader is just a mean of humiliating the said enemy. Turning a military operation into a contest is never a good idea. Now everyone and their dog will be hell bent on denying us the chance to kill the leader, and will be more willing to turn a blind eye if something unexpected happens to us, because they have a vested interest to prove their superiority to the world.

 

[Tigranes]

'all of the pugilists are on guard, ready to fight at a moment's notice' => this doesn't mean they want someone to fight us, Neville's interpretation of that phrase is his own. If you read the paragraph - well, everyone, come up with your own conclusion, but my reading was strongly that they are on guard because they are afraid we, the ZJ apprentice, will jump on them or something will happen. They aren't snapping at the heels to make sure sombody puts us down. I think if we prove reasonable with B then with the encouragement of the Zhou guy many pugilists will be reasonably happy to avoid a direct confrontation. There's nothing in the update that suggests they will be unhappy with that to the point of taing matters into their own hands. You don't have non-Songfeng dudes heckling no way man this guy is crazy, etc.

 

[Nevill]

How about Jing's interpretation, then? Can we trust his opinion on the matter?

“What is this? Are all of you going to pile on me? Who will make the first move? I do not think this is a good start to your anti-pirate alliance if you start losing people even before you set foot on the island.”

Yes, they are afraid of us, and they are questioning themselves if having us with them is worth it.

We get three choices on how to prove it. A is the most straightforward one.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Eh, well we can just agree to disagree on this choice. You think that a show of force will get these guys to back off and give us a measure of respect from the crowd. I think a reasonable approach would remind everyone why they are really here and make our challengers look like the troublemakers if they insist. I really, really doubt that anyone except the asshole disciples and possibly Jing is going to take the "contest" seriously. It was obviously suggested as a face saving option that would defuse the situation. Nobody loses or gains anything in this contest except the fame / fortune of personally killing the pirate boss (and they would have that regardless of the contest). So there isn't going to be any lemming rush at the pirates just because of this.