[LP CYOA] 傳

[Tigranes]

Nobody is arguing for A or B because of honour.

 

[treave]

Seriously, we didn't taunt him, we didn't feign weakness, we didn't do any theatrics like we did in some of our previous fights.

Mainly because taunting and toying with a rather slow and stoic boy isn't the best way to win over a crowd. It just comes off as mean-spirited. The crowd-pleasing move is to break the myth of his apparent invincibility, which is what he decided to go for, and has succeeded at by managing to knock Guo Fu down.

treave, do we have an idea of how resilient Fu is compared to our Master? Of course Zhang is way more experienced and has his own neigong, but Fu's natural sturdyness seems to be in the same neighbourhood as Zhang, which means that he's very, very tough to take out.

Probably less resilient, but Jing estimates they are in the same ballpark, or is at least confident enough that he is alright with not holding back. Before you left, Zhang was able to headbutt a full-strength Chuzhan Fist and hurt your knuckles with nothing to show but a slight bruise on his forehead. That could be due to other techniques he has, of course, but you have never really been able to harm him in any significant measure, though he doesn't only tank your attacks, he evades it. That means there is a possibility you could still hurt Zhang if you landed those hits, but you can't be sure if it isn't part of the training. After all, he isn't there to be a punching-bag.

Anyway, the same Chuzhan attack kills a bandit when hit in the chest, and leaves Guo Fu slightly winded when launched hurriedly.

 

[Nevill]

Nobody is arguing for A or B because of honour.

Really? And "appearing a giant pussy", as Baltika9 puts it, isn't about 'honor'?

 

[Nevill]

The same attack kills a bandit when hit in the chest, and leaves Guo Fu slightly winded when launched hurriedly.

Guo Fu is using his technique that can break swords to shrug away our attacks. What would happen if we get past it is anyone's guess.

 

[Baltika9]

Not at all, it's about not being a giant pussy. Ever participate in schoolyard fights? Or a ring match? The difference between being a wuss and being dishonorable is that dishonrable people do it deliberately, while wusses wuss out because they can't take the heat. And that is exactly what B will appear like and it's all about appearances here. We're not gonna convince anyone otherwise, to them it will look like Ivan Drago broke us and we pussied out. And that's that.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Heck, this guy doesn't even count for Zhang's challenge, does he?

Unfortunately, he started to count the moment he broke our arm. If we call foul now he will be remembered as the guy that broke the arm of Maniac's apprentice. Even if he is not taken by some sect after this (and he will), there is no way Zhang would let that stand, regardless of whether our opponent is a member of a sect or not. The whole point of our task is to prove our superiority over our generation and for that purpose winning because our opponent broke our arm is no wining for Zhang. B would most certainly lead to another all-out fight with Guo later where we would have to outright beat him into submission.

 

[Nevill]

Ever participate in schoolyard fights?

Yes, it is this childish definition of 'honor' I am talking about. Ever seen the bullied kids that never tell on their bullies and continue to be abused because it would be 'dishonorable' to involve others? This is not them acting 'as a man should', this is them being stupid and succumbing to the pressure of the same peers that abuse them.

And that is exactly what B will appear like and it's all about appearances here.

We aren't dropping out of the tournament because of our injury. What does that tell about us?

 

[Tigranes]

Appearing a giant pussy has consequences for our strategy and for our social relations. Nobody is saying no to B because they personally don't feel comfortable with being 'dishonourable'. I, of course, am stll voting for B, but I'm increasingy puzzled about these ridiculous claims about nonexistentn people and arguments you continue to invent, actively steering people away from joining you in B. Nobody's harping on about honour.... except you.

We're going into 50 pages of TL:DR territory again. All I'll say is, A could end up fine and we win. We'd win the crowd and the Masters, stay in the tournament, at the price of exposing our techniques to Bal Jiutian, Nameless, and eeryone else. A could end up horribly and have us shamefully disqualified. B is a certainty, where we will most likely lose the crowd, but we will win without expxosing our techniques.

That's what's important in the end: B isn't as 'popular' but it will get us the win without reveaing ourselves. And that's what's important to me in the end than the crowd or Guo Fu's well being.

 

[Nevill]

Nobody's harping on about honour.... except you.

Interchange 'dishonorable' with 'being a pussy', and you would see Baltika9's posts that I actually try to answer.

Whatever.

 

[Esquilax]

Dude, you are in the wrong here. There are arguments for B that work very well - I'm voting for it, ffs - but you are barking up the wrong tree completely.

We aren't dropping out of the tournament because of our injury. What does that tell about us?

That we bend the rules of a martial arts tournament only when it's convenient? The crowd wants to see an exciting fight. DQing Guo Fu is disappointing, to say the least.

It is akin to not reporting being robbed to the police because you are afraid people would think you were too much of a pussy not to handle the issue yourself. Guo Fu is the one at fault here, yet we are in the wrong if we point it out. Better to risk injuring him instead - Cao'er will fix him anyway.

We've established a precedent for skirting the rules. At the moment, Man Tiger Pig is regarded as a great fighter with kind of a mischievous, irreverent streak that is a nice breath of fresh air compared to all those stuffy orthodox types. Winning in this way will turn their perception of us for the worse - that we're a coward who only cares about the rules that suit him, and that we can't actually fight at all. If we're trying to claim credit as Zhang's apprentice, this is a problem.

Okay, I'll sum up the arguments thus far for everybody:

Arguments for A:

• Skill boosts, obviously.
• Defeats Guo Fu for the purposes of our challenge, so we won't have to fight him later when one of the orthodox sects pick him up.
• Fu is a tough bastard in the same ballpark as Zhang, he can take a beating. This makes the negative consequences of going all-out far less of a problem for us.
• A decisive victory against Fu prevents the WiB from using the big guy as a scapegoat. If he loses, people won't believe he's Zhang's apprentice. If we win, even if we're disqualified for striking him too hard, that allows us to claim we're Zhang's apprentice much easier while taking some heat off the big guy and his wife.

Arguments for B:

• Guarantees a win, A does not.
• Avoids displaying our techniques to Bai Jiutian, Su Liaojing, and other future opponents.
• Avoids the risk of getting disqualified for going too hard. Fu might be very tough, but we can't be sure that we won't get disqualified by injuring him.

I think that about covers it.

 

[Jester]

I guess main point between A and B is overall reputation, way farmer will be affected and our keeping our cards to us.

I aim for cunning trap against our targets and WiB with A will see if i am correct or just hope it will lead in that direction.

 

[Absinthe]

Voting A. Not only is it the bro choice, but Zhang Jue will probably break Jing's arm and have him practice that way as a lesson in not being such a chickenshit.

I don't recommend using the Sky-Soaring Dragon against Guo Fu. We have no real practice with that skill and Yuanshi Hundun lowers our control. Not only that, but our next opponent, Yifang, knows all of our regular moves so this is a good ace against her once Jing has +1 to unarmed and sword.

As for hiding techniques, that ship has sailed. Can't beat Nameless without going all out, Yifang already knows most of them, and the reward is a Shaolin technique, so lets take it.

 

[Esquilax]

I don't recommend using the Sky-Soaring Dragon against Guo Fu. We have no real practice with that skill and Yuanshi Hundun lowers our control. Not only that, but our next opponent, Yifang, knows all of our regular moves so this is a good ace against her once Jing has +1 to unarmed and sword.

As for hiding techniques, that ship has sailed. Can't beat Nameless without going all out, Yifang already knows most of them, and the reward is a Shaolin technique, so lets take it.

How has that ship sailed? We haven't shown a single technique in the competition thus far! Who cares about what Yifang knows - we're not hiding the techniques from Yifang, we're hiding them from Bai Jiutian, Su Liaojing, etc.

 

[Absinthe]

Esquilax, Bai Jiutian and Su Liaojing, etc. will witness it before we fight them anyway unless we opt to lose the tournament.

 

[Esquilax]

Esquilax, Bai Jiutian and Su Liaojing, etc. will witness it before we fight them anyway unless we opt to lose the tournament.

That's doubtful, and here's why. First, we already have a counter in place for the Qingcheng stab thanks to the tips from Cao'er and the match with Yiling. We have the Emei style down pat. As for Nameless, yes, that's a lot more problematic, but we still have a whole day before the finals, surely we can find more clues on the Persian fighters by then.

Also, keep in mind that unless somebody has the high INT/PER that Cao'er does, they would need to view our style in action at least twice before being able to theorize any counters to our technique. Winning with A would mean that we'd have to progress further with injuries that Cao'er would have to take care of. This presents an opportunity cost, because the time we spend recovering could have been otherwise spent learning more about Nameless or watching her fight.

Lastly, we shouldn't get too focused on winning the tournament. Remember that Zhang doesn't care about our progress in the tournament, so don't hesitate to drop out if we feel that we've made a good run. Fuck the technique manual - it's nice, but it's not the end-all be-all here.

Even if we choose to drop the finals, who says we can't attempt to steal it from Nameless anyways? We can just use the fight as a pretext to learn her style, then rob her and her friends once we have the chance. Yeah, maybe stealing from a Zoroastrian fire cult isn't the best of ideas, but my point is that we shouldn't get too fixated on the reward when ultimately this tournament means very little to us in the long run.

Nameless isn't part of the challenge at all, so aside from the technique manual, we gain nothing from defeating her here. Keep in mind that we've started to really set a relationship with the various Masters, perhaps they'll be willing to share a few techniques with us in time anyways. Especially if they want us to beat that smug fuck, Bai Jiutian.

 

[Kipeci]

We've actually displayed a number of our techniques already, including our neigong repeatedly, the fist in the most recent update, swordery, etc.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

It's important that we beat Nameless. If Nameless is a girl, defeating her is the first step to winning her heart friendship.

 

[Absinthe]

That's doubtful, and here's why. First, we already have a counter in place for the Qingcheng stab thanks to the tips from Cao'er and the match with Yiling. We have the Emei style down pat. As for Nameless, yes, that's a lot more problematic, but we still have a whole day before the finals, surely we can find more clues on the Persian fighters by then.

If you want to do that, you should vote A. It was lack of skill that ruined the technique against Yiling. +1 Swords might fix that, but without boosting sword skill that technique is not viable without the Yuchang Sword. Boosting the sword skill also gives Jing a better chance of defeating Yifang's techniques. The other way to defeat Yifang without showing any techniques is to take off the mask and unleash Jing's killing intent on her. That would destroy her composure enough that Jing can walk all over her without using any moves. But then, we'd basically announce ourselves as Zhang Jue's disciple and get ambushed, framed, whatever before the Nameless fight.

Also, keep in mind that unless somebody has the high INT/PER that Cao'er does, they would need to view our style in action at least twice before being able to theorize any counters to our technique. Winning with A would mean that we'd have to progress further with injuries that Cao'er would have to take care of. This presents an opportunity cost, because the time we spend recovering could have been otherwise spent learning more about Nameless or watching her fight.

True.

Lastly, we shouldn't get too focused on winning the tournament. Remember that Zhang doesn't care about our progress in the tournament, so don't hesitate to drop out if we feel that we've made a good run. Fuck the technique manual - it's nice, but it's not the end-all be-all here.

Yes, but you're just dropping out because you don't want to show techniques. I think we've already gone over this. If you challenge a school like that, they're going to keep sending out weak members until they've got a solid grasp on your level. You're not preserving anything here. On the other hand, taking care of business here means a legitimate win, a bonus technique, and a lot of free time to spend doing other stuff, like trying to get acquainted with the Persians or visiting Luoying Manor.

Even if we choose to drop the finals, who says we can't attempt to steal it from Nameless anyways? We can just use the fight as a pretext to learn her style, then rob her and her friends once we have the chance. Yeah, maybe stealing from a Zoroastrian fire cult isn't the best of ideas, but my point is that we shouldn't get too fixated on the reward when ultimately this tournament means very little to us in the long run.

You mean aside from the fact that Qilin, who is an expert on skullduggery, failed? Also, do you just fucking love negative rep all around or something?

Nameless isn't part of the challenge at all, so aside from the technique manual, we gain nothing from defeating her here. Keep in mind that we've started to really set a relationship with the various Masters, perhaps they'll be willing to share a few techniques with us in time anyways. Especially if they want us to beat that smug fuck, Bai Jiutian.

The technique manual alone is enough reason to beat her.

 

[Kipeci]

We'd need to have actual killing intent to use the aura of paralysis, as treave cleared up earlier.

You can still paralyze (or at least effectively blind) her, though. Just don't stop at taking off the mask.

 

[Baltika9]

Make a striptease of it too. In fact, we should dress up in a Chippendale suit, bowtie and chaps included.
Then again, Zoroastrians were kinky themselves, so I'm not sure how that'll go over.

 

[Kashmir Slippers]

We should probably wait and see the results of our current fight before we start planning for the next one.

 

[Absinthe]

We'd need to have actual killing intent to use the aura of paralysis, as treave cleared up earlier.

Eh, Jing can do that without really injuring her.

You can still paralyze (or at least effectively blind) her, though. Just don't stop at taking off the mask.

Heck. You wouldn't even need to take off the mask. Just striptease into shirtless. Treave, this needs to be an option for the next fight.

 

[ScubaV]

There are solid arguments for both sides, but like pretty much every character in the LP, I want to see Jing unleashed. This is a rare opportunity outside training with Zhang Jue. Yes it risks giving away techniques, but I'm confident we can beat Bai Jiutian even if he does have some intel.

A

 

[kazgar]

I think I might start ignoring the actual ramifications and start voting on which result I want treave to write.

hmmmm, fight scene or political melodrama.

 

[Esquilax]

I just remembered that Song Lingshu is also a spectator at the moment. So that's another future opponent observing us that we have to worry about.

If you want to do that, you should vote A. It was lack of skill that ruined the technique against Yiling. +1 Swords might fix that, but without boosting sword skill that technique is not viable without the Yuchang Sword. Boosting the sword skill also gives Jing a better chance of defeating Yifang's techniques. The other way to defeat Yifang without showing any techniques is to take off the mask and unleash Jing's killing intent on her. That would destroy her composure enough that Jing can walk all over her without using any moves. But then, we'd basically announce ourselves as Zhang Jue's disciple and get ambushed, framed, whatever before the Nameless fight.

Yeah, I had already mentioned that the improvement to our sword technique might allow us to work the Deceptive Fish Stab with the crappy tournament training swords that they have here. However, considering that we have such a good understanding of the technique, there are other counters that we can develop too - remember that we could have disarmed Yiling with the Shouwang Claws or the Chuzhan Fist as well. My point was that our experience and understanding of the Qingcheng Stab gives us a really big advantage against Yifang. Nameless is a much bigger threat, because she has the same level of skill, but is a complete unknown to us.

And I think you have the wrong idea when it comes to taking off the mask. During the fight, the mask is the only thing that we should be wearing at all.

Yes, but you're just dropping out because you don't want to show techniques. I think we've already gone over this. If you challenge a school like that, they're going to keep sending out weak members until they've got a solid grasp on your level. You're not preserving anything here. On the other hand, taking care of business here means a legitimate win, a bonus technique, and a lot of free time to spend doing other stuff, like trying to get known with the Persians or visiting Luoying Manor.

We can reveal that we're Zhang Jue's apprentice before the finals too and claim the credit for the victories we've earned:

“We might need you to reveal your identity during the tournament, if things get to the point where we feel they may begin rounding up people for an assault on your master. We will vouch for you if necessary,” says Wang abruptly.

Like ScubaV, I believe that we can defeat the likes of Bai Jiutian, Song Lingshu, or Su Liaojing even if they have intel on us. However, if we do decide to go for the championship gold here, we'll definitely have to spend a lot of time reinventing our style so that we can really surprise people the next time that they see us. The Shaolin grappling technique is a good start, but we need more than that if we want to show up as a new and improved, Jing 2.0. One technique isn't enough return for me, because in exchange for that, you'll be revealing two techniques, as well as our unique qinggong and neigong. It took a year and a half of training under Zhang to develop us into a promising young pugilist, so we'd need to set lots of time aside if we want to overhaul our game after the tournament. Maybe if we set aside six entire months to improve our skills further it would help, but we just don't have the time to start replacing our bread-and-butter techniques at this point in the time frame that Zhang gave us.

A trip to Luoying Manor would also definitely be on the to-do list, learning more about the Persians after we defeat them could be another option too if they're the sort that would respect our prowess rather than hold a grudge. But I dunno, I say that if we spent a year and a half fighting tigers on Maniac Island, we should try not to reveal all of our skills over the course of two days.

You mean aside from the fact that Qilin, who is an expert on skullduggery, failed? Also, do you just fucking love negative rep all around or something?
...
The technique manual alone is enough reason to beat her.

Qilin failed because she didn't have our help. Her plan was to unmask Nameless, but she couldn't manage it on her own. As for the technique manual, of course it's going to be a big help to us, but we shouldn't be blinded by promises of rewards - it may end up costing us more in the long run. I'm not necessarily opposed to winning the championship, but we have to keep in mind that winning here isn't necessary and that we should just keep in mind our overall goal a year from now. Of course, winning here could help with our long-term goals as well, but as I mentioned earlier, we'd really have to set aside a lot of time and show a new and improved Jing the next time the Eight Sects see us.

As for my love of negative rep, it has more to do with the fact that I place the goal of the challenge above our rep. Unless there's something really dangerous to us like the WiBs attempting to frame us, I'm cool with not giving a shit if the Huashan throw a hissy fit because we disrobed their disciple. Yeah, you don't want to fuck with the wrong people, but trying too hard to please them gets you nowhere.