Looks like Jade Empire is a hit.

[Volourn]

"Are you one of these people that spends 20 minutes at a time stacking your gems and shuffling stuff amongst your party to get the optimal inventory configuration?
I do that to a certain extent in single player.
But by fuck it is annoying when people get super-anal over it in a LAN. I have memories of an IWD LAN where I am certain people spent more time looting corpses and shuffling their inventories between characters than actually participating in combat. Fuck I had a lot of beer breaks that day..."

Yup, I am. I don't do it in MP though. I hate that too when someone does it. Bozos like to do that in NWN, and they wodner why 5 minutes later I'm no longer in the party. The answer is simple - I wanna play the game - not stand around for 10 minutes while you play jigsaw. Jigsaw is fun when I'm doing it; not when others are. :D


"The "group think" that someone else was accusing of happening around here seems to be slowly being...ameliorated..."

That's true. Even some of the more 'senior' members of the Codex have relaxed somewhat on their BIo hate. Maybe I finally got through to them. Nah... impossible.


"like Wizards and Warriors"

It had potential, imo, but it didn't take long for that potential to fizzle for me, and it flopped, and I ran away from it...


"I think they try to straddle the camps. That may be the key to their success."

Yup. their game smay not be 'hardcore' as some would like; but it's hardcore enough to keep the so called hardcore coming back. Seriously, if this game was not x-box only, 99% of the people on this baord would be buying the game.

 

[Volourn]

BIo hateboys rejoice:

Gamespot throws the gauntlet down and hammers jJade Empire:

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/jadeempire/review.html

JE sucks comapred to KOTOR.

r00fles!

Still got a 8.4; but still.. Of course, these gauys rated KOTOR1 a 9.1 which was too high for that game...

 

[dipdipdip]

Yeah, they say it's a step back from Bio's previous efforts.

We'll see...

 

[NeutralMilkHotel]

An 8.4 is "great", that's not being hammered at all. Sounds like it's just being realistic.

 

[space captain]

Gamespot put the beatdown on JE, but still gave it a score of 8.4

they said the combat was weak, the AI was worthless (the description "pitifully easy" dont sound good), the game was oversimplified and too short, the character development was non-existant, and that the environments were pretty but not interactive...

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/jadeempire/review.html

they sorta killed alot of hopes i had - but I'll probably be getting it anyways... since the Xbox has practically no RPG games its almost a required purchase

 

[Volourn]

"An 8.4 is "great", that's not being hammered at all. Sounds like it's just being realistic."

These same guys gave KOTOR1 a 9.1 even with its awful controls, super easy combat, and crappy inventory.

We know for a fact that JE doesn't hjave the inventory problem so that alone makes it better than KOTOR.

R00fles!


edit: Space, ya gots to be quicker.

 

[space captain]

i was too busy crafting my summary... its odd that alot of things they criticize are praised in other reviews... of course they liked Fable so they must be retarded anyways

 

[Volourn]

Yeah, reaidng the review they shouldn't have rated it 8.4; but like 6.0. Seriosuly, if I were to go solely on Gamespot's review I would not be interested in JE as they make it seem like a crappy version of KOTOR. Adterall, they thought KOTOR's combat was awesome; but seem to hate JE's combat. That's sad as I disliked KOTOR's combat....

 

[Dhruin]

"An 8.4 is "great", that's not being hammered at all. Sounds like it's just being realistic."

These same guys gave KOTOR1 a 9.1 even with its awful controls, super easy combat, and crappy inventory.

We know for a fact that JE doesn't hjave the inventory problem so that alone makes it better than KOTOR.

R00fles!


edit: Space, ya gots to be quicker.

You're kidding me, Volourn. Not having inventory problems automatically makes JE a better game?

R00fles! You lose!

 

[Volourn]

"Not having inventory problems automatically makes JE a better game?"

Considering the crappiness of KOTOR's inventory, yes. :D

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

How come virtually every area had the obligatory broken droids laying around near the entrance for the scout characters?

Because web sites like the Codex make a huge deal about of having every character have a different solution for a puzzle, and there's really only so many ways you can do that.

The point being that there are more than one ways to use a mechanical skill than just cutting and pasting the broken droid in to every level and saying, "There it is, guys! There's the combat option for that skill!" That's what I mean by being a one-trick-pony developer.

 

[Greatatlantic]

Yep, leave it to Gamespot to find whats wrong with a game. Anyways, here are some of Greg Kasavin's kernels of wisdom.

It has the simplest design of any BioWare RPG yet, from the bare-bones character building elements to the action-based combat system. It's also surprisingly easy and fairly short by the genre's standards, offering up an adventure that shouldn't last you more than 20 hours on your first play-through.

A lot of this is stuff I sort of expected, except to play length, but thats been confirmed by several sources now... though contradicted by a few. Its no where near the 30 hour standard I have set in my head.

However, Jade Empire's combat system isn't that great. It can be pretty fun, especially if you go out of your way to introduce more variety than you really need to survive, but it ultimately feels hollow...[T]he predictable enemy behavior and the presence of some ridiculously overpowered styles, which can leave most foes frozen and unable to defend themselves, means that Jade Empire's combat devolves into routine. At the default difficulty setting, the combat also happens to be a total breeze, except for a few moderately difficult encounters against the toughest villains. ...the fighting is also the weakest link in a role-playing game whose combat conceivably could have been its main attraction.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the combat... but I have to believe even "hollow" real time is better than RTw/P, man I hated that system.

...and some of the characters speak a made-up language called the Old Tongue, presumably because word-for-word voice-over wasn’t available. You’ll notice that sometimes these lines will repeat, and sometimes the voice inflection doesn't fit the dialogue when these lines are delivered.

Uh oh, I just figured out why Bioware is making all new languages for Dragon Age. A clever tool discovered by accident with KotOR, the fake language allows you to claim a fully voiced game with out having to plot it all out before hand. But he does go on to say the full audio is pretty good overall.

 

[Volourn]

He rated the game too high, imo. Then again, he rated KOTOR a 9.1 and that combat was poor so his opinion on what makes good combat fails, imo. Reaidng his comments made me think he shoulda rated it like 6.0 or soemthing and if I were to gos trictly by that review I would write the game off.. Just saying.

Besdies, he goes from saying the combat is crappy to fun to easy to ahrd. Make up his mind, please. Another thing to point out is that he said the combat was very simple yet he spent a good page+ in a 3 page review disucsisng this 'simple combat'. Weird?

Ahh. That's ok. It's one opinion. It's not like the world is over. LOL

Two days, I shall judge the game myself and find out that bith IGn and Gamespot don't know what they're talking about. :twisted:


"and some of the characters speak a made-up language called the Old Tongue, presumably because word-for-word voice-over wasn’t available. You’ll notice that sometimes these lines will repeat, and sometimes the voice inflection doesn't fit the dialogue when these lines are delivered."

Yeah, I must say though, that seems kinda crappy on BIO's part. Seems a watse if that's all the 'original' languages are for..


Another paid for review: http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/925/Jade-Empire/p2/

 

[MarFish]

I think Greg rated the game from the point of view of a PC RPG gamer, while most other reviews rated it as Action Console RPG. He misses the traditional RPG features while the other reviews were more like "good riddance clumsy inventory". I'm torn on this one - coming from KotOR, I'm definitly on the good riddance side of that, as much as I enjoy managing my inventory, an action based combat game where I have to pause combat to change weapons and armor doesn't sound right to me.

We'll see where game sits on gamerankings in a week or so, should be a good indication. Also it would be nice to get a review from Vol, when it comes to games, he seems to have a similar like/dislike pattern than I have.

 

[Volourn]

Probably by the end of weekend. Remember, I don't own an x-box. Just borrowing one to rent JE. So, I'm probably gonna suck at the controls at first just due to that..

And, I'm not gonna buy an x-box unless I can find one for udner $100 just for one game..

 

[MarFish]

The video review is up
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/jadeempire/media.html

The final score seems somewhat inconsistent with what he says in the review. He mentions it's hard to resist to compare the game to KotOR and then promptly goes on in doing so. At least it looks like Vol won't have issues with combat difficulty unless he switches to Hard.

 

[Volourn]

Saw the review. It's bascally the written review rehashed. What's funny though is he says the combat is asy unless you play on hard in which case it's really, really hard.

Then again, he found KOTOR pretty challenging so as far as difficulty comes into it he doens't make sense. Besides, he says the game is easy then says it's also hard... Weird..

I wonder what level he played on? There are three levels... Hmm...

 

[Shagnak]

Just watched it.
I'd summarise it as "the game is good, depite some crappiness, due to presentation and story overwhelming the crappy/too easy combat".
Or not...there seems to be a lot of contradictory stuff in there.

"It's different from Bioware's other games...but it's very similar to Bioware's other games"
"The game feels shallow for an rpg...but is very immersive due to its storyline and presentation"

...and other gems

(I may have some of that slightly wrong, but I was watching a stream and I couldnt be bothered going back to look again)

 

[Fez]

That sounds as good as the "turnbased but in realtime" line.

 

[Shagnak]

I think the new take on that is that Bioware's games are typically "quasi-turn based". :wink:

From Gamespot:

Then there's the combat. Most role-playing games (including all of BioWare's previous works) feature quasi-turn-based combat systems, which give you the opportunity to decide how your characters will respond to the dangers they're facing. But battles in Jade Empire play out in real time, like something you'd expect to see in an action game instead of an RPG.

That's like turn-based, but with a big hump on it's back, right? :shock:

 

[Volourn]

Of cours ehe fails to mention that you can pause the game at any time in JE and then choose what you'll do next just like every other BIO game. The only difference here is that in JE there are NO 6 second rounds and no limits by some D&D rule to limit how many attacks you canhave... of course, someone forgot to mention to him that that's becuase JE isn't a D&D game or not even a psuedo D&D game like KOTOR was...

 

[Greatatlantic]

Volourn, Kasavin is not going to come here to read your posts, no need to say moronic comments if he won't be around to bait with them.

I think he just found it inferior to KotOR for several reasons: too short, too linear, rudimentary character building, and he found a way to make combat mind-numbingly easy. Still, getting into the 8's at gamespot is a sign of a quality title. Hmmm... he also gave NWN a 9.2. I really don't know what to make of that.

 

[Dhruin]

But that's not really how it works Volourn. While you can pause, you can't "choose your next action", unless you mean like I can with any game. The actions are realtime -- I can pause but selecting "attack" won't queue an attack for when I release the pause.

I can pause and think about my next attack but that's not the same. I could do that with an FPS - hit ESC, think about it, resume the game and on with the action. Very different to their prior games where I could issue/queue attacks while paused - I don't get why you think it's the same.

 

[Volourn]

"Volourn, Kasavin is not going to come here to read your posts"

And? Neither do the other reviewers yet we still discuss their reviews. Don't make it perosnal. Heck, I've even had to defend the GS Dude on the BIO board because someone was making it personal. R00fles!

Besides, why would I be baiting a guy who (suppsoedly) doens't post here? Your logic is very poor. I forgot though. It's ok to review games; but one cna't reveiw the rveiewers? R00fles Deluxe!


"I can pause and think about my next attack but that's not the same. I could do that with an FPS - hit ESC, think about it, resume the game and on with the action. Very different to their prior games where I could issue/queue attacks while paused - I don't get why you think it's the same."

According to BIo, you can switch styles (from the 4 you have access to) while paused,a nd you can basically prepare your next attack rather easily while paused. I never said you can 'queue' attacks.


"I think he just found it inferior to KotOR for several reasons: too short, too linear, rudimentary character building, and he found a way to make combat mind-numbingly easy. Still, getting into the 8's at gamespot is a sign of a quality title."

That's exactly my point. Such a negative review yet he still rates it as 'great'. That's just out there espicially sinee its inconsistent.

The combat sucks; but it's fun.

It's shallow but it's so deep I gotta waste over a page of my 3 page review solely on combat in an attempt to explain it.

The game is too easy; but the game is too hard.

R00fles!

 

[MarFish]

Just watched it.
I'd summarise it as "the game is good, depite some crappiness, due to presentation and story overwhelming the crappy/too easy combat".
Or not...there seems to be a lot of contradictory stuff in there.

"It's different from Bioware's other games...but it's very similar to Bioware's other games"
"The game feels shallow for an rpg...but is very immersive due to its storyline and presentation"

...and other gems

(I may have some of that slightly wrong, but I was watching a stream and I couldnt be bothered going back to look again)

And now the fun part:

The 1-up review. 8.5 / 10.0, so you would guess it's the same gripes as GS, but instead the guy rambles on how combat is too complicated and difficulty rather than shallow and straighforward as the Gamespot guy said.

Another area that isn't as graceful as its subject matter is the very same battle-engine that distinguished Jade Empire from nearly every RPG out there. While the lock-on system (the triggers are used to cycle between targets) is fine in concept, in actual practice it's a pain to switch at varying depths, especially when the most immediate threat is the last one to be targeted. This while backing up, rolling around, and pressing the B-button to evade, making an annoying effort of all around tactical maneuvers. While the options during battle are nearly endless, it is also equally complicated to managed when attempting to fight, while trying to break your enemies' shield, and avoid the incoming blows of the three or more targets who surround you. While your AI partner is certainly capable of handling an enemy or two, on occasion, they'll be knocked out in battle, leaving you to fend for yourself. The best recourse is to use Chi to heal yourself. But in an instance where your Chi meter is empty, and you switch to Spirit Thief to drain the Chi out of your enemies, it poses an interesting problem. Imagine moving evasively, avoiding enemies while attempting to hit your principal target to regain Chi. Now imagine tapping B to roll away, while getting up to hit A and rapid punch your foe, draining Chi with every hit. Now keep hitting A while you're getting hit from the side (don't get stuck in a corner, the camera will betray you), and simultaneously hit the White button to heal yourself. Most people only come equipped with one thumb on each hand, making this a particularly challenging scenario.

Doesn't sound mindnumbing easy to me.


http://xbox.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3139565&did=1

Bottomline: "Waee, it's not KotOR, we want sequels rehashed"