Looking for an RPG...

[vivec]

Shooters just really aren't my thing. Even if its the best, most absorbing and reactive shooter of all time.

Well, you can play Deus Ex as a stealth game instead of a shooter. Or even never kill a soul (Navarre don't count, she has no soul).

At least play Arx Fatalis. It's a fantastic hardcore dungeon crawler RPG.

I have played all the good ones, and I used to play Counter strike and Quake 3 quite often. So maybe change your tactic. Also, Deus ex is hardly what you call a good shooter. And yes, it is in the top 3 games I ever played. Just because it is a great game, it does not have to be perfect.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's pretty close to perfect, though.

 

[vivec]

Whatever.

 

[Citizen]

Looking for a honest RPG...

 

[Piotrovitz]

Konung

 

[dragonul09]

Tyranny(Obsidian) could be your answer, doesn't really have the chosen one plot but instead it gives you the freedom to do whatever the fuck you want, kill everyone or be a goody two shoes, pity it's kinda short.

 

[Cross]

Tyranny(Obsidian) could be your answer, doesn't really have the chosen one plot but instead it gives you the freedom to do whatever the fuck you want, kill everyone or be a goody two shoes, pity it's kinda short.

Tyranny

freedom

What freedom? You can't even force attack NPC's like you can in other cRPG's. It's a highly railroaded game masquerading under a thin veneer of choice and consequence. Contrary to what it looks like, it has more in common with a cinematic game like Mass Effect than it does with an isometric RPG like Fallout.

And Tyranny's main character is very much a chosen one.

 

[dragonul09]

Tyranny(Obsidian) could be your answer, doesn't really have the chosen one plot but instead it gives you the freedom to do whatever the fuck you want, kill everyone or be a goody two shoes, pity it's kinda short.

Tyranny

freedom

What freedom? You can't even force attack NPC's like you can in other cRPG's. It's an incredibly railroaded game masquerading under a thin veneer of choice and consequence. Contrary to what it looks like, it has more in common with a cinematic games like Mass Effect than it does with an isometric RPG like Fallout.

A thin veneer? You mean being able to kill every faction in the game is a bad thing now? Also you can ally with every single one of them, hell you can choose to betray Kyros the minute you meet the rebels and from there you can build your personal army. The main problem this game had was the budget, it was mostly an afterthought and that clearly impacted the length and quality.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Tyranny(Obsidian) could be your answer, doesn't really have the chosen one plot but instead it gives you the freedom to do whatever the fuck you want, kill everyone or be a goody two shoes, pity it's kinda short.

Tyranny

freedom

What freedom? You can't even force attack NPC's like you can in other cRPG's. It's an incredibly railroaded game masquerading under a thin veneer of choice and consequence. Contrary to what it looks like, it has more in common with a cinematic games like Mass Effect than it does with an isometric RPG like Fallout.

A thin veneer? You mean being able to kill every faction in the game is a bad thing now? Also you can ally with every single one of them, hell you can choose to betray Kyros the minute you meet the rebels and from there you can build your personal army. The main problem this game had was the budget, it was mostly an afterthought and that clearly impacted the length and quality.

Silly rabbits, freedom is tyranny and tyranny is freedom.

Seriously, though, you’re both kind of right. Tyranny has lots of excellent C&C but also lots of railroading. The phrase I’d use is path dependent. There are moments where you can make huge choices that change the whole experience, but outside of those moments your freedom is more limited. Once you pick one of the four paths in chapter one, you’re basically locked into that storyline. I look at it as a storyfag game that’s designed to have tons of replay value by gating lots of content based on faction choice.

Still, I enjoyed Tyranny a lot. While it’s not perfect, if your problem with Pillars was boredom and lack of engagement, Tyranny may be for you (although combat and character creation is decidedly worse).

However, definitely play Bloodlines, SS2, and Arx Fatalis first. And, pace Lacrymas, you should play Age of Decadence before Dungeon Rats if you haven’t played it already. Also, go back to NWN2, skip the main campaign and go straight for the excellent expansions.

 

[Lacrymas]

Oh, Tranny has many more problems which aren't related to the budget. Also, yes, the protagonist is a chosen one. It has C&C in the sense that you choose your specific rail, which is a valid approach if the game is good. Tranny, however, is not a good game, quite the contrary, it's aggressively bad and bland in almost all respects.

And, pace Lacrymas, you should play Age of Decadence before Dungeon Rats if you haven’t played it already.

It's not party-based, though, which the OP specifically said he wanted. If you want a single-character experience, definitely play AoD first, obviously.

 

[dragonul09]

Oh, Tranny has many more problems which aren't related to the budget. Also, yes, the protagonist is a chosen one. It has C&C in the sense that you choose your specific rail, which is a valid approach if the game is good. Tranny, however, is not a good game, quite the contrary, it's aggressively bad and bland in almost all respects.

How is the protagonist the chosen one? Is there something in the game that pushes you to do certain things for the greater good or evil and you can't stray from that path? I mean from the moment you met the rebels you can betray Kyros and do whatever the hell you want the whole game without anyone telling you what to do, you can simply kill everyone and also attack Kyros armies at the end.
There's no chosen one plot here, you are given free will to do whatever the hell you want, the main problem is that the game was short and a lot of thing were not properly explained.

 

[Lacrymas]

How is that a definition of chosen one? The protagonist is a chosen one because only s/he has unexplained powers, i.e. being able to control the spires, also something about the Edicts, didn't get that far. Having random powers nobody else has only because you are the protagonist is the very essence of a chosen one.

 

[dragonul09]

How is that a definition of chosen one? The protagonist is a chosen one because only s/he has unexplained powers, i.e. being able to control the spires. Having random powers nobody else has only because you are the protagonist is the very essence of a chosen one.

Not really, if you read the codex and the messages you get from a certain fatebinder you will realise that those powers could simply be your awoken Archon powers, as the game never explain how the Archons get their powers or when, that's why everyone calls you the Archon of the Spires. That doesnt make you the chosen one, there are plenty of Archons in the game that have weird powers and could easily destroy an army, hell there's Archon Sirin that had the power to control Kyros to almost commit suicide. It really shows that you didn't read much in the game, maybe you should go back to Pillars of Eternity and realise what a true Chosen One is, who mysteriously lived to something that shouldnt have and now is basically forced to follow the big evil even tho it has nothing to do with you, you could just simply go home and drink your kool aid and everything would be just fine.

 

[Lacrymas]

Um, yes, it does make you a chosen one. It doesn't matter that 5 other people have random unexplained powers, they are chosen ones as well. Not to mention that only your powers can resolve and move the plot, if there's a plot at all.

 

[dragonul09]

Um, yes, it does make you a chosen one. It doesn't matter that 5 other people have unexplained powers, they are chosen ones as well.

But there are much more than 5 Archons, how many Chosen Ones can you put in a basket till you realise you are not that special, ergo not the Chosen one. Should we put everyone that has a little bit of unexplained power in the same basket as the Chosen One? Mages, Sages, Forge Bounds that have powers that others could not attain?

 

[Zeno42]

Shooters just really aren't my thing. Even if its the best, most absorbing and reactive shooter of all time.

I'm in the same boat, but Deus Ex, System Shock 2 and VtM:B "do it" for me. Although they really aren't "shooters" in the same sense as CoD, the only straightforward shooter I've ever liked is Half-life 1. Anyway, I despise shooters with all my being, I can't even get into New Vegas due to the atrocious gameplay, but Deus Ex, SS2 and VtM:B are something completely different and are classics that are worth playing through, despite the "shooter-like" (I'd classify them as action-stealth maybe, rather than FPS) gameplay. You should also try what I said earlier - Dungeon Rats, it fits your criteria to a T.

I liked Dungeon Rats pretty well. A lot more than I liked AoD itself actually (AoD felt *extremely* choose-your-own-adventure-ish). The focus being on simply survival and escape worked well for it.

I'll see if I can get into the others. A ton of people seem to really like Deus-Ex. Vtm has the twin issues that I like neither the Vampire genre nor the FPS game-style. I know everybody thinks its great - it just seems hard to clear both mental hurdles.

 

[Zeno42]

Tyranny(Obsidian) could be your answer, doesn't really have the chosen one plot but instead it gives you the freedom to do whatever the fuck you want, kill everyone or be a goody two shoes, pity it's kinda short.

I looked at that when it came out, but never actually bought and tried it. Partly the poor reception. Partly the feeling that if POE didn't do much for me why should I expect different from Tyranny. And partly that I simply don't enjoy playing the "bad guy". The basic conceit of the game - where you're at best trying to minimize the harm being done all around you - doesn't really sound like something I would enjoy.

 

[Polydeuces]

Maybe you'd like 7,62 High Calibre if you liked Fallout Tactics.

 

[dragonul09]

Tyranny(Obsidian) could be your answer, doesn't really have the chosen one plot but instead it gives you the freedom to do whatever the fuck you want, kill everyone or be a goody two shoes, pity it's kinda short.

I looked at that when it came out, but never actually bought and tried it. Partly the poor reception. Partly the feeling that if POE didn't do much for me why should I expect different from Tyranny. And partly that I simply don't enjoy playing the "bad guy". The basic conceit of the game - where you're at best trying to minimize the harm being done all around you - doesn't really sound like something I would enjoy.

You can be a goody two shoes, don't worry about that, hell you can join the rebels in the first 1-2 hours of the game and help them fight agaisnt Kyros armies and be as benevolent as Jesus christ himself.

 

[Lacrymas]

But there are much more than 5 Archons, how many Chosen Ones can you put in a basket till you realise you are not that special, ergo not the Chosen one. Should we put everyone that has a little bit of unexplained power in the same basket as the Chosen One? Mages, Sages, Forge Bounds that have powers that others could not attain?

No, because they aren't extraordinary in any way. While you are, just because. You are the only one who moves the "plot" and that's because you have those powers. If you had done something to deserve or earn those powers, then sure, but you don't, you simply are special and get to play with world-altering powers (something common mages and whatever don't have). If you were an archon from the very beginning and the plot revolved around the motives of each archon, getting into conflicts, stabbing each other in the back, forging alliances and conspiring against/with Kyros, then sure, you would be an equal player in this narrative game, as opposed to an unstoppable force that violently crashes with the plot. This would also have strengthened the story hook, trodding on your underlings to achieve whatever goal you want, or maybe choosing not to, but losing the game of minds with the others. That's only one possibility, assuming they wanted you to be an archon and that wasn't negotiable.

The writers are just not very well read nor have experienced how subtle and creeping evil intentions are. Their only concept of that is displays of brute force and unpleasant people who have no personality outside how unpleasant and uncultured they are. I assume Trump is also in their list of boogeymen. It's amateurish, cringey and wanky, biting something they couldn't chew.

 

[Zeno42]

Um, yes, it does make you a chosen one. It doesn't matter that 5 other people have random unexplained powers, they are chosen ones as well. Not to mention that only your powers can resolve and move the plot, if there's a plot at all.

To me it basically boils down to "if significant parts of the game hinge on *what* you are rather than *who* you are", and I don't get to decide "what" I am, then it might as well be a chosen one plot. In Pools of Radiance my characters can be anything I want, with any motivations I want, so long as their interests include some reasons for answering a call for adventurers/mercenaries. In BG, POE, and games like that the game is telling me that I am a Bhaalspawn, or I am a Watcher, or I am the seventh son of the seventh son, or what have you. And the plot revolves around that.

 

[dragonul09]

But there are much more than 5 Archons, how many Chosen Ones can you put in a basket till you realise you are not that special, ergo not the Chosen one. Should we put everyone that has a little bit of unexplained power in the same basket as the Chosen One? Mages, Sages, Forge Bounds that have powers that others could not attain?

No, because they aren't extraordinary in any way. While you are, just because. You are the only one who moves the "plot" and that's because you have those powers. If you had done something to deserve or earn those powers, then sure, but you don't, you simply are special and get to play with world-altering powers (something common mages and whatever don't have). If you were an archon from the very beginning and the plot revolved around the motives of each archon, getting into conflicts, stabbing each other in the back, forging alliances and conspiring against/with Kyros, then sure, you would be an equal player in this narrative game, as opposed to an unstoppable force that violently crashes with the plot. This would also have strengthened the story hook, trodding on your underlings to achieve whatever goal you want, or maybe choosing not to, but losing the game of minds with the others. That's only one possibility, assuming they wanted you to be an archon and that wasn't negotiable.

The writers are just not very well read nor have experienced how subtle and creeping evil intentions are. Their only concept of that is displays of brute force and unpleasant people who have no personality outside how unpleasant and uncultured they are. I assume Trump is also in their list of boogeymen. It's amateurish, cringey and wanky.

But they are extraordinary and can do things that no one could do, just because you defeat them doesn't make you the chosen one, you fought your way to the top, as they were when they defeated the former Archons.

Archon Sirin can control armies with her mind and she could control you if she didn't had the helmet.
Archon Ashe can shield his entire armies with his seal
Archon Nerat can devour other people minds and store them into his own
Archon Cain is a giant that could easily destroy your Spires

Those powers seems pretty extraordinary to me and also your only power is that you can absorb and proclaim lesser Edicts but only through the Spires, that means you are bound to your Spires while Kyros is not. Also the game never puts you on a pedestal, you were already a powerful Fatebinder in the service of Tunon's court, so you don't start a simple nobody that quickly ascends to God-hood because some mumbo jumbo ghost tells you that you are the only one who can defeat the big bad evil and save the world.

 

[Lacrymas]

I meant the mages and sages and what-have-you. I already cleared up that all the archons are essentially chosen ones, but not really, at least not plot-wise. Also, the game does put you on a pedestal, no idea where you are getting contradictory evidence from. You start out as judge, jury and executioner and get progressively more badass and special as time goes on without earning it (again plot-wise). If your definition of chosen one is "some guy tells you you are destined to save the world", then yes, but that's a very narrow understanding and not what the trope is about at all. It's about how you are special because you are special and the plot revolving around that, the other archons are there just so you can interact with them and do whatever you want, they aren't characters that exert influence in the narrative.

 

[Revenant]

sup drog

 

[dragonul09]

I meant the mages and sages and what-have-you. I already cleared up that all the archons are essentially chosen ones, but not really, at least not plot-wise.. Also, the game does put you on a pedestal, no idea where you are getting contradictory evidence from. You start out as judge, jury and executioner and get progressively more badass and special as time goes on without earning it. If your definition of chosen one is "some guy tells you you are destined to save the world", then yes, but that's a very narrow understanding and not what the trope is about at all. It's about how you are special because you are special and the plot revolving around that, the other archons are there just so you can interact with them and do whatever you want, they aren't characters that exert influence in the narrative.

But you never know what you power is till the end of the game where you can proclaim an Edict before getting swarmed by the other Archos, so how does the plot revolves around how special you are when you don't know what the Spires actually do till 30 hours into the game? Also the game rarely mention the Spires and your special powers because you don't have any till the end of the game, so your point of the plot revolving around how special you are is kinda moot.