Let's Play VtM: Wild Nights - Chapter 10

[Erebus]

I think we're going to need more info on Rannigan. Do we even know what clan he's a part of ?

A thought has come to my mind : Wilkinson doesn't really know what the abomination is, but she knows that Eames and the Sheriff know about it. It stretches believability that such a thing would be left unguarded, especially after Jamieson's supposed betrayal.

I wonder if the Tremere could create some sort of magical barrier to prevent access to the abomination ? It could be a way to kill two birds with one stone : (1) not make it look like a set-up and (2) force the Sabbat to bring a vampire strong enough to break through or bypass the barrier.

 

[SCO]

I think we're going to need more info on Rannigan. Do we even know what clan he's a part of ?

A thought has come to my mind : Wilkinson doesn't really know what the abomination is, but she knows that Eames and the Sheriff know about it. It stretches believability that such a thing would be left unguarded, especially after Jamieson's supposed betrayal.

I wonder if the Tremere could create some sort of magical barrier to prevent access to the abomination ? It could be a way to kill two birds with one stone : (1) not make it look like a set-up and (2) force the Sabbat to bring a vampire strong enough to break through or bypass the barrier.

Kinda fucking late in the game for that, but maybe it can be done (or was done by Eanes).

Speaking of Ogham runes, kinda interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham

Theories of origin

There are two main schools of thought among scholars as to the motivation for the creation of ogham. Scholars such as Carney and MacNeill have suggested that ogham was first created as a cryptic alphabet, designed by the Irish so as not to be understood by those with a knowledge of the Latin alphabet.[12]. With this school of thought, it is asserted that the alphabet was created by Irish scholars or druids for political, military or religious reasons to provide a secret means of communication in opposition to the authorities of Roman Britain.[citation needed] The Roman Empire, which then ruled over neighbouring southern Britain, represented a very real threat of invasion to Ireland, which may have acted as a spur to the creation of the alphabet.[citation needed] Alternatively, in later centuries when the threat of invasion had receded and the Irish were themselves invading the western parts of Britain, the desire to keep communications secret from Romans or Romanised Britons would still have provided an incentive.[citation needed]. With bilingual ogham and Latin inscriptions in Wales, however, one would suppose that the ogham could easily be decoded by anyone in the Post-Roman world [13].

The second main school of thought, put forward by scholars such as McManus,[14] is that ogham was invented by the first Christian communities in early Ireland, out of a desire to have a unique alphabet for writing short messages and inscriptions in the Irish language. The argument is that the sounds of Primitive Irish were regarded as difficult to transcribe into the Latin alphabet, so the invention of a separate alphabet was deemed appropriate. A possible such origin, as suggested by McManus (1991:41), is the early Christian community known to have existed in Ireland from around AD 400 at the latest, the existence of which is attested by the mission of Palladius by Pope Celestine I in AD 431. Palladius died and was buried at Auchenblae in the Mearns in eastern Scotland. These events may be associated with a Christian community there propagating ogham to the otherwise anomalous cluster of inscriptions in eastern Scotland.

A variation on both theories is that the alphabet was first invented, for whatever reason, in 4th century Irish settlements in west Wales after contact and intermarriage with Romanized Britons with a knowledge of the Latin alphabet.[citation needed] In fact, several ogham stones in Wales are bilingual, containing both Irish and Brythonic-Latin (an ancestor of contemporary Welsh), testifying to the Celtic contact that led to the existence of some of these stones.[15]

A third theory put forward by the noted ogham scholar R.A.S. Macalister was influential at one time, but finds little favour with scholars today.[16] Macalister believed that ogham was first invented in Cisalpine Gaul around 600 B.C. by Gaulish druids as a secret system of hand signals, and was inspired by a form of the Greek alphabet current in Northern Italy at the time. According to this theory, the alphabet was transmitted in oral form or on wood only, until it was finally put into a written form on stone inscriptions in early Christian Ireland. Later scholars are largely united in rejecting this theory however,[17] primarily because a detailed study of the letters[citation needed] show that they were created specifically for the Primitive Irish of the early centuries AD. The supposed links with the form of the Greek alphabet that Macalister proposed can also be disproved.[citation needed]

Macalister's theory of hand or finger signals as a source for ogham is a reflection of the fact that the signary consists of four groups of five letters, with a sequence of strokes from one to five. A theory popular among modern scholars is that the forms of the letters derive from the various numerical tally-mark systems in existence at the time. This theory was first suggested by the scholars Thurneysen and Vendryes, who proposed that the ogham script was inspired by a pre-existing system of counting based around the numbers five and twenty, which was then adapted to an alphabet form by the first ogamists.[18]

They're not so old. But as it often is the legend is better :

Legendary accounts

According to the 11th c. Lebor Gabála Érenn, the 14th c. Auraicept na n-Éces, and other Medieval Irish folklore, ogham was first invented soon after the fall of the Tower of Babel, along with the Gaelic language, by the legendary Scythian king, Fenius Farsa. According to the Auraicept, Fenius journeyed from Scythia together with Goídel mac Ethéoir, Íar mac Nema and a retinue of 72 scholars. They came to the plain of Shinar to study the confused languages at Nimrod's tower (the Tower of Babel). Finding that they had already been dispersed, Fenius sent his scholars to study them, staying at the tower, coordinating the effort. After ten years, the investigations were complete, and Fenius created in Bérla tóbaide "the selected language", taking the best of each of the confused tongues, which he called Goídelc, Goidelic, after Goídel mac Ethéoir. He also created extensions of Goídelc, called Bérla Féne, after himself, Íarmberla, after Íar mac Nema, and others, and the Beithe-luis-nuin (the ogham) as a perfected writing system for his languages. The names he gave to the letters were those of his 25 best scholars.

Alternatively, the Ogam Tract credits Ogma mac Elathan (Ogmios) with the script's invention. Ogma was skilled in speech and poetry, and created the system for the learned, to the exclusion of rustics and fools. The first message written in Ogam were seven b's on a birch, sent as a warning to Lug mac Elathan, meaning: "your wife will be carried away seven times to the otherworld unless the birch protects her". For this reason, the letter b is said to be named after the birch, and In Lebor Ogaim goes on to tell the tradition that all letters were named after trees, a claim also referred to by the Auraicept as an alternative to the naming after Fenius' disciples.

A alphabet made by snobbish druids.

 

[Esquilax]

I think we're going to need more info on Rannigan. Do we even know what clan he's a part of ?

I agree, details about him have been sparse for a man who held such status in the Camarilla. It also creeps me out: how the fuck would he know to come to our house? If it's a fleshcrafter wearing his skin, that's just as bad.

A thought has come to my mind : Wilkinson doesn't really know what the abomination is, but she knows that Eames and the Sheriff know about it. It stretches believability that such a thing would be left unguarded, especially after Jamieson's supposed betrayal.

I wonder if the Tremere could create some sort of magical barrier to prevent access to the abomination? It could be a way to kill two birds with one stone : (1) not make it look like a set-up and (2) force the Sabbat to bring a vampire strong enough to break through or bypass the barrier.

Clever idea. However, the die has already been cast, so I'm not sure if there's even enough time left to do something like that. Making a barrier would make things more authentic, but if they're down there to begin with, then that means that they've already bought into our con. Also, Thaumaturgical rituals can sometimes take a lot of time, and that's a luxury we no longer have. Lastly, you could argue that the cave didn't really need barriers since (1) only close allies knew about it, and (2) the Caecilian would very likely eat any fool that stumbled into it. It wouldn't hurt to ask Eames about it, but I'm not expecting much to come out of it because the ball is already rolling.

To make things believable, Donnie could easily say that the Caecilian was part of a Camarilla plot involving us, Eames, and Schiller to topple Kirkbeck. Use the worms to kill the Prince, then the blame will be on the Sabbat's head. There's plenty of ways he can spin this narrative, and I know that our agent will be up for it. If anything, he may be too good of an actor because he nearly fucking killed Anthony.*

Our immediate goal with the resources we have on hand should be in helping Donnie as much as possible. How do we do that?

I think we need to continue using the mundane, practical solutions that we've relied on so far. Getting a blood hunt called on Donnie without telling the Prince our plan will be the first step. Even without the meta-gaming knowledge that may or may not be a red herring, it's smart to listen to Erika because she hasn't really steered us wrong so far. If she doesn't trust Kirkbeck, then neither do I.

To make this blood hunt happen, we get Eames to blackmail du Marchais into supporting a blood hunt with the evidence we've got. He's in a desperate position already, so I think she can break him easily.

Now, I know what some of you are thinking: wait, what if it turns out that the Prince was trustworthy all along and he gets pissed that we lied about our plan? We can say that du Marchais put us up to it. I mean, the guy is the Baron that was responsible for finding out how the Sabbat were involved in this war, how could we disagree with a man of such stature? Point is, we need our boy Donnie to get some more heat on him to make this thing work.

That covers Eames, now what are we going to do with Oscar and the Sheriff? We get them both to communicate, with Oscar keeping surveillance on Jamieson with the fuckton of cameras he probably has littered throughout London, and to keep Erika posted. Erika will throw some hit-and-run attacks at the Sabbat as a diversion, but under no circumstances is she to engage them head-on. That's how we keep things more believable, IMO.

EDIT: You guys are completely right. Too much fucking around with what we've got at this point will work to our detriment. Let's not waste good will with Eames on making a blood hunt that would serve no purpose and make Donnie no safer.

* grotsnik, has this brush with death made Anthony a bit more at peace with his own mortality? I would believe so.

 

[SCO]

I vote against the bloodhunt.

It is a political move that will antagonize the US camarilla, antagonize the prince when he finds out he was used (if he does - and blaming someone else is just digging our grave deeper IMO - if we come forward everything about this event will out), antagonizes Jaimeson when when he finds out that a bloodhunt can't really be called off (unlike bloodlines) - the sect wouldn't allow such a mockery of their judgment without being forced to, and we have not the power.

Finally, it is unnecessary. The lack of it would be interpreted simply as what it is: capture to let the US princes deal with their black sheep and avoiding antagonism between the continents.

Personally for us, it is also a foolish expenditure of political clout (of our allies, but still).

 

[ironyuri]

 

[laclongquan]

Gahahahah.

I slept through the whole update. Dang!

Anyway, dont worry about Sabbat know that Sheriff plus Eames know about the weapon. That simply create a time pressure on them to find Jamieson sooner and jump in the trap soonest. If they delay they may fear Camarilla will destroy it.

Action?

1. We are NOT to call anywhere. We have a plan that we invested too much blood and sweat into it. Cant ruin it now by a careless phone call to anyone. Who know who might be listening.

2. We can suggest Oscar do a few things aside from looking after the Battersea. But what, I wonder.

3. And yeah, it's time to train your combat skill with Eddie. A golden chance.

 

[Esquilax]

Great post

Awesome idea. We're stuck here with Edgar anyways, so we might as well use it as an opportunity for some character development and a closer bond with him.

On closer thought, you guys are correct. I think we have a good plan - do you guys think that if we do anything further at this point, it might work to our detriment? So what do you say, just chill (and improve our skills) while Oscar runs surveillance/keeps us updated? If Donnie can't fire off the detonator for whatever reason, I'd like Oscar to do it as a last resort - it's good to have a Plan B. We can work on getting more info regarding Rannigan when this is over.

Oh, and of course, we say nothing about Rannigan to the Sheriff. I would love to try and make use of Eames or the Schiller at this point, but I honestly have no idea what I would want them to do. Any thoughts?

Have oscar run intel and surveillance on Rannigan, whatever the cost. And keep Eames and Schiller out of the loop. only fuckers I trust right now are Oscar and Fellowes.

Amen. We need to get Black Bart Charley to make a detailed, full-colour drawing of Anthony, Edgar and Oscar together looking badass. The caption underneath would read "BAND OF BROS".

 

[laclongquan]

Nah. erika is pure tsundere at this moment. If this trap set off great, she will turn around. No need to keep her at arm's length.

She's pissed off because we hid the data concerning the Kueijin's monster. She's pissed off because Prince and Baron treat her like a dumb mark who believe whatever they told her. She's pissed off because we shacked up with Eames and not with her.

Dont run around because we've been hurt bad. not just secrecy demand we stay put but prudence also. Heal and train, rest and recuperate. We need to be at full strength so that we can fight our way out from under Battersea.

Dont worry about it.

 

[grotsnik]

Nah. erika is pure tsundere at this moment.

Oh, godfuckit, you're right.

 

[Kz3r0]

I agree in using this time to improve our combat skills, not that we have better things to do while playing dead.
However I don't understand the logic of not inform the sheriff about Rannigan, in fact the best course of action until now has been to let her handle the issue, in this way we undermined the position of both the prince and Du Marchais without antagonizing them directly, and now you want to risk to enrage the sheriff, if she discovers that we withheld such information from her, for no good reason, why?

 

[SCO]

As i said i think we should delegate on broadening our faction (contacting the gangrel), planting the idea of investigating the vaulderie on Eanes and possibly training up with fellowes too.

Joining these diverse people, even without some crazy bastards that disdain the path of humanity will become impossible if it goes even slightly against the stated or unstated objectives of their immediate superiors (and the elders that control them) and their hidden bloodbonds on many of our allies (or even us - do we have none? We will have one soon if Eanes has her way).

I'd really like that vaulderie ritual done for us. After that we can be completely clean with eachother, sharing everything (except if someone is very, very stupid or naive). If worse shit doesn't happen we will succeed in killing Angelos, and maybe even drive out the sabbat momentarily. Then comes their retribution. Don't you think we should use the opportunity of a shared goal to make the alliance more solid and permant?

(of course it's fucking dangerous to go against the elders, but we are going to do it eventually, preparing the ground now seems wise, instead of waiting until we have to run away because all our allies deserted us).

 

[SCO]

You do realize that diablerie of someone with more willpower than you risks them taking over your body and even if you do, you mix their personality with yours?

(and lower humanity, of course).

What's the point of going from 13 to 11 or 12 generation? It's not like we're 7th or 6th gen, just itching to take on the Methuselahs. Lowering generation just increases the theoretical maximums of the attributes we don't have and the bloodpoints (as well as giving larger problems with the beast, people with Auspex and shit).

 

[laclongquan]

NOT *call* Erika about this. Suggest Oscar talk with her face to face or secured phone call as an alternative.

We are in total communication blackout. We call no one.

However, Erika need to know this new development so she can be prepared. And introduce Oscar to Erika is both our pacificatory gesture toward her, AND an insurance policy for Oscar. We need provide him a protector of sort AND provide Erika with an expert in surveillance. Strengthen our allies is to strengthen ourself.

 

[Storyfag]

We need to lay low for the moment. Let's stay in the safehouse and train with Edgar. Let's tell Oscar that the thing stalking Rannigan came from the Cathayan container. Let's keep an eye on Regentia Eames. And when the time is right, let's go to Battersea!

 

[Storyfag]

Yep, we can tell her a bit later.

@ SCO:
Diablerie is not as bas as you make it out to be. Indeed, it is the motor behind the Jyhad. Methuselahs must feed on kindred vitae, while Neonates and Ancillae want more power. Ultimately the vampiric society is cannibalistic. And, to date, only Antideluvians and Tzimisce Elders were recorded to have taken over those who diablerized them.

@ Grotsnik:
Can you please give us a rough estimate of our generation and perhaps the entire character sheet? What are our pirmary attributes and abilities (without getting into specific point allocation)? What Disciplines do we have, and how well have we mastered them?

 

[Rod Rodderson]

You do realize that diablerie of someone with more willpower than you risks them taking over your body and even if you do, you mix their personality with yours?

That's not actually a thing. Some STs might have used something like that, but unless I'm failing at memory really badly, the closest any official source has gone was that happening if you diablerize somebody who is millennia older than you are (and even then it's more a gradual change in personality, and not possession). Except DSotBH, but the general consensus is that that never happened.

What's the point of going from 13 to 11 or 12 generation? It's not like we're 7th or 6th gen, just itching to take on the Methuselahs. Lowering generation just increases the theoretical maximums of the attributes we don't have and the bloodpoints (as well as giving larger problems with the beast, people with Auspex and shit).

Dominate. A young Ventrue gets little benefit from a larger blood pool and none from being able to use more per turn. So not much point at all, really.

I'll vote that we just sit tight. Possibly practise a bit with Fellowes if he's willing.

Edit: Storyfag, we're 13th generation. Grotsnik said it some time back. Can't speak for the rest, though.

 

[laclongquan]

Considering our preplanning, a 1st class direct-action agent still knock us around with ease. I say we are still too weak to operate solo. Minimum requirement for one combat action is one escort (Eddie) or two normal Brujahs (meatshields to buy time to runaway).

Since it's Eddie plus jamieson plus (maybe) one Brujah, we may get out of the coming ambush alive.

 

[Esquilax]

Dominate. A young Ventrue gets little benefit from a larger blood pool and none from being able to use more per turn. So not much point at all, really.

I'll vote that we just sit tight. Possibly practise a bit with Fellowes if he's willing.

Edit: Storyfag, we're 13th generation. Grotsnik said it some time back. Can't speak for the rest, though.

I've said it before, if we choose to diablerize anyone (and it's still a big "if") it should be du Marchais after we hopefully end up killing Angelos and gaining lots of status in the Camarilla. If this grand plan works out, we expose the guy, get a blood hunt on him, catch him, and feast. Of course, we'd need to plan out the specifics, but I think it's quite doable.

@Storyfag: Wait, why are we the ones going down to Battersea? I thought Oscar would be doing surveillance, not us. I'm not exactly clear on what we would be doing down there.

 

[SCO]

His collar is probably his collarbone.

 

[laclongquan]

At first stage beta-planning, we are there as bait.

however, at this final stage, we are there to get jamieson's ass out of fire. And witness first hand our efforts, of course. And to be frank, planning is alright but if we dont get our hands bloody we will just forever be rear echelon motherfuckers. At best, staff pukes.

My fellows, we need to be there if we ever hold hope for quick advance. *NEED*.

 

[Storyfag]

At first stage beta-planning, we are there as bait.

however, at this final stage, we are there to get jamieson's ass out of fire. And witness first hand our efforts, of course. And to be frank, planning is alright but if we dont get our hands dirty we will just forever be rear echelon motherfuckers. At best, staff pukes.

My fellows, we need to be there if we ever hold hope for quick advance. *NEED*.

Pretty much this. Also, we need to keep our "friends" Donnie and Eames close, or they'll want all the credit for themselves. And we can't have this, now can we?

 

[Esquilax]

At first stage beta-planning, we are there as bait.

however, at this final stage, we are there to get jamieson's ass out of fire. And witness first hand our efforts, of course. And to be frank, planning is alright but if we dont get our hands bloody we will just forever be rear echelon motherfuckers. At best, staff pukes.

My fellows, we need to be there if we ever hold hope for quick advance. *NEED*.

Huh? Why the fuck would we expose ourselves like that? Dude, I would find going into that cave with the Sabbat in there ill-advised even if we were playing a tough-as-nails Brujah, let alone our Ventrue. We don't have that kind of manpower - the four of us, against the Sculptor, his Templars and fuck knows how many shovelheads. We'd get slaughtered like sheep.

Walk me through, step-by-step how you plan on extracting Donnie from the Sabbat while he's in the pit. Your plan is vague and I'm not sure if I really understand it. And if I did understand it, it's suicidal.

I had something planned for this occasion, I wrote a post about it a few pages ago and I've revised it a little now that Oscar is back with us:

Since we'll have Oscar giving us surveillance, he will know when the Sabbat enter the cave.

Once our cameras have the Sabbat on location, we give a call to the Sheriff and signal her to head outside the cave with a few of her trusted soldiers. Under no circumstances are they to enter the cave and engage the Sabbat - they'll just stay put. Meanwhile, as Donnie is inside the cave with the Sculptor and no doubt under the watchful eyes of some Templars, they'll hear something on the outside. Donnie will tell them that it must be the Sheriff's people, and that someone must have seen them coming in.

Tensions will run high, but Don will have the answer: He will convince the Sabbat to allow him to leave the cave when he offers to "give himself up" to the Camarilla by surrendering, begging for his life, and telling the Camarilla that there are Sabbat inside the cave. He'll tell the Sculptor that this will be a ruse in order to draw the Sheriff's people in to get eaten by the Caecilian. Because he won't see the explosives we've placed and our lies have been so convincing, I am betting that the Sculptor will be so invested into the con, that he will let Don go. After all, Angelos just got a new toy and he will be extremely eager to use it against the enemy - he'll love to see what this thing is capable of. At that point, all Jamieson has to do is waltz out of there, head into the bolthole, and vaporize everyone.

 

[laclongquan]

Well my reasons are strictly instinctive. But history seems to show a genuine strategist need to stay with troops in excuting his tactic or he lose the touch.

Kong Ming, or Zhuge Liang, stay with troops all the time he excute his tactic. He can do remote planning but he almost always be on the field. Not for him the leisure and comforts of general headquarter.

Ma Xun, who was one of his great staff and planning officer, one of his protege actually, mostly stay behind to plan. So the last time he get a hair up his ass about that and asking for an independent command, he fumbled the job due to lack of practical experiences and get surrounded, captured, then released. Zhuge Liang excuted him for doing a terrible job, of course. Afterward Zhuge chose his new protege from a commanding officer, not staff puke.

Since we plan to be baron, and eventually Prince, I think our natural aversion to get our hands bloody will get us killed in the long run, or at best, forever buried under some two-cent barons. So we need to jump in fire, in properly controlled situation of course, in order to come out ahead. And this ambush is as prepared as we can make it. Best time to try, really.

 

[laclongquan]

Since we'll have Oscar giving us surveillance, he will know when the Sabbat enter the cave.

Once our cameras have the Sabbat on location, we give a call to the Sheriff and signal her to head outside the cave with a few of her trusted soldiers. Under no circumstances are they to enter the cave and engage the Sabbat - they'll just stay put. Meanwhile, as Donnie is inside the cave with the Sculptor and no doubt under the watchful eyes of some Templars, they'll hear something on the outside. Donnie will tell them that it must be the Sheriff's people, and that someone must have seen them coming in.

Tensions will run high, but Don will have the answer: He will convince the Sabbat to allow him to leave the cave when he offers to "give himself up" to the Camarilla by surrendering, begging for his life, and telling the Camarilla that there are Sabbat inside the cave. He'll tell the Sculptor that this will be a ruse in order to draw the Sheriff's people in to get eaten by the Caecilian. Because he won't see the explosives we've placed and our lies have been so convincing, I am betting that the Sculptor will be so invested into the con, that he will let Don go. After all, Angelos just got a new toy and he will be extremely eager to use it against the enemy - he'll love to see what this thing is capable of. At that point, all Jamieson has to do is waltz out of there, head into the bolthole, and vaporize everyone.

That plan got that terrible predictable factor: the contact lead you to an unknown place, possibly dangerous, then he want to get out from under your watchful eyes? Susssssssspicious. No way. It's like the bargain with Karthik, if we get there with only ourself and not extra muscles we would have get killed. As it is, arrived with Eddie, jamieson, and we still lose one Brujah muscle.

No, in this ambush if we dont extract Jamieson it's 90% chance he either get caught in the trap or get killed while fighting his way out. We need to be there to ensure the trap sprung properly and protect our agent.

 

[Esquilax]

Fair enough, the plan that I outlined is very suspicious. But goddamn, we are severely outmanned and outgunned. If you want to do this, we really ought to bring the Sheriff along, at least. I would feel far safer with her at our side. It just doesn't make much sense to me to fake our own deaths, only to reveal ourselves a couple of hours later. We just got to a safehouse where none of our enemies will know we're alive, now you want to go back out again, especially while still recovering? Sounds pretty fucking absurd, y'know.

There is also one alternative that you haven't considered: what if we have no intention of keeping Donnie alive? Maybe we just get Oscar to use Obfuscate, head outside the cave, then set off the payload once he sees Angelos inside. I'd rather keep this as a last resort, but it certainly is an option that would save our skin. I hate the idea of using Jamieson like this, but it certainly is the option that is most likely to succeed.

OK, so this upcoming turn, we'd train with Fellowes, then the chapter after that, we go down to Battersea? Is that how you guys want to play it?

And once we go down there, what would we do? We head into the cave and cause a diversion for Donnie, he runs out, then we hit the detonator? Don't get me wrong, the BRO appeal of this idea is there, but we need to think about this first.