Let's Play VtM: Wild Nights - Chapter 10

[SCO]

Page 3 man.

Another thing. Exposing the information might just expose Oscar to the nosferatu elders too.
Probably not life threatening, but we may lose him as a asset if we can't protect him.

Send the info anonymously is a possibility. We lose some prestige and the Prince will get paranoid, but duMarchais should die anyway.

Also now that i think about it some more, trying to form a coup faction is risky. Our enforcer knows about the video. Unless we are ... sure... about his personal loyalty (we are not betraying the sect in this case), i don't advise it. I don't think we will become the Tremere puppet prince in this LP guys.

 

[ironyuri]

I'm still voting to

(P) call Oscar and get the rest of the data we need on the final destination of the black sedan Rannigan was bundled into. We know Rannigan was put into the Sedan near Vauxhall after he left the metro and we know that the men who put him there washed up on the Thames: we NEED to know what happened between the two points of the story and thats the piece of the puzzle that will save our neck.

B: go to the meeting and play along for now.

We can't call Earnes, maybe she's a friend but maybe she doesn't want us to have a direct line to her and hence we have no contact.


We need to know what we don't know (we don't even KNOW what we don't know) before we can use that against du Marchais.

I haven't seen any arguments in the last few pages that have persuaded me that this is not the best path right now. Oscar said he'd call us and maybe he'll get through before the meeting takes place, but once we get to the meeting we won't be able to take that call without suspiscion. We have to call him and get as much information as possible, he might even be able to use his camera network to see if there really is a Camarilla gathering at the Pleasure N' Pain or if it's jut du Marchais and some Russki thugs.

 

[Kz3r0]

For everyone that wants to get along with Du Marchais' plan and participate to the meeting, how about they will ask us what happened when we have been kidnapped by the Anarchs, what will be your answer then?

 

[SCO]

The meeting is a general congress to attack the sabbat. If he had that kind of info, this would all be unnecessary (and this is risky for him too, since he has no clue about where Tarrence is).

He'd just call the prince after you failed to report the kidnap, the prince would call you to a "private meeting".

Of course, the raid might be a lie. But i don't think so. The metagaming indicates the setite is planning this.

 

[SCO]

@ironyurl
You realize this means you are betraying the prince by not exposing duMarchais plot don't you? You better be sure Fellowes keeps his mouth shut and/or believes the prince is behind the kidnap. I doubt his loyalty runs deep enough to go against the prince or sect anyway. The Toreador are lazy.

If you are hoping that Oscar has something new that you get before the attack commences or it all goes pear-shapped, i can dig it, though i don't quite hold out for that hope. Don't interrupt him and let the nosferatu call us. Fuck appearances.

 

[ironyuri]

@ironyurl
You realize this means you are betraying the prince by not exposing duMarchais plot don't you? You better be sure Fellowes keeps his mouth shut and/or believes the prince is behind the kidnap. I doubt his loyalty runs deep enough to go against the prince or sect anyway. The Toreador are lazy.

As option B says we're only going along with the plan "For now." the raid need not even take place if we get the info we need from Oscar and then reveal du Marchais before the raid happens.

Although I see your point. If we show the Prince to be a fool publicly, it's on our head. But if we show him publically to be dragging the Camarilla into a Sabbat raid for no reason, especially since we've got the Tremere regent in our corner, we may be able to take care of two birds with one stone.

Edit- Didn't see your ninja edit before I posted.I know calling Oscar is a stretch, but keeping up appearances might be the only way to save our neck at the moment. If this is like a poker game, then we might need to have Oscar's card marked before we start.

 

[SCO]

I ninja edited my ninja edit

@ironyurl
You realize this means you are betraying the prince by not exposing duMarchais plot don't you? You better be sure Fellowes keeps his mouth shut and/or believes the prince is behind the kidnap. I doubt his loyalty runs deep enough to go against the prince or sect anyway. The Toreador are lazy.

As option B says we're only going along with the plan "For now." the raid need not even take place if we get the info we need from Oscar and then reveal du Marchais before the raid happens.

Although I see your point. If we show the Prince to be a fool publicly, it's on our head. But if we show him publically to be dragging the Camarilla into a Sabbat raid for no reason, especially since we've got the Tremere regent in our corner, we may be able to take care of two birds with one stone.

This comes down to two things:
Do we belive the prince to be behind the original kidnap or duMarchais?
Do we think that if A and we signal that we know discretely, the prince will fuck us?
Do we think that if B and we signal what we know discretely, the prince will fuck duMarchais?
If not, (since the final kidnapper might very well be sabbat - but is likely the setite), why the fuck not? He betrayed them and is now manipulating the sect into attacking the sabbat.

The partial information is damning to duMarchais (likely him) even if we don't know where the fuck Tarrence is. That is why we don't show it publicly. We call the sheriff.

 

[Storyfag]

I have this feeling that the original kidnapping is Du Marchais' work. The Prince's enforcers who did the deed were disposed of to keep things quiet. But they were disposed of sloppily! Causing breaches of the Masquerade! The Prince *cannot* be *that* ineffectual. Nor can be his Sheriff. Du Marchais, on the other hand...

 

[ironyuri]

I ninja edited my ninja edit

@ironyurl
You realize this means you are betraying the prince by not exposing duMarchais plot don't you? You better be sure Fellowes keeps his mouth shut and/or believes the prince is behind the kidnap. I doubt his loyalty runs deep enough to go against the prince or sect anyway. The Toreador are lazy.

As option B says we're only going along with the plan "For now." the raid need not even take place if we get the info we need from Oscar and then reveal du Marchais before the raid happens.

Although I see your point. If we show the Prince to be a fool publicly, it's on our head. But if we show him publically to be dragging the Camarilla into a Sabbat raid for no reason, especially since we've got the Tremere regent in our corner, we may be able to take care of two birds with one stone.

This comes down to two things:
Do we belive the prince to be behind the original kidnap or duMarchais?
Do we think that if A and we signal that we know discretely, the prince will fuck us?
Do we think that if B and we signal what we know discretely, the prince will fuck duMarchais?
If not, (since the final kidnapper might very well be sabbat - but is likely the setite), why the fuck not? He betrayed them and is now manipulating the sect into attacking the sabbat.

The partial information is damning to duMarchais (likely him) even if we don't know where the fuck Tarrence is. That is why we don't show it publicly. We call the sheriff.

I'm still not convinced. The final piece of the puzzle is what happened to Rannigan between getting into the car and the deaths of the Prince's/du Marchais' thugs.

If we call the Sheriff, who may be complicit, but is likely not, in the plan, then we may be signing our own death warrant, but possibly not. If we reveal what we know at the meeting (if it is a meeting with all the Barons) there may be too much weight pushing against du Marchais who has is the reaosn the meeting has been called in the first place and we'll topple him. The Prince can't back a man who is the reason for a raid that serves no purpose, not in public. du Marchais would meet the sunrise and everyone else would know who put him in line for it. Our power would grow, maybe we'd even take over du Marchais' barony.

The thing chasing Rannigan could not have been related to d Marchais, unless he was under the influence of a Setite or Baali (maybe he is a pawn for the Sabbat and the raid is a trap?). If there is a strong argument for that then I may change my opinion on the phonecall to the Sheriff, but for now I'm still P Oscar and B.

 

[SCO]

It depends on which faction you want to back i guess.

1) Prince faction
2) duMarchais/setite "faction"
3) Tremere faction
4) Indep, ambitious
5) Indep, modest
6) Sabbat
7) Anarch


1) If we tattle to the prince we stop the setite plan (but in the interests of moving the plot, the sabbat will likely attack)
2) Too late
3) If we had went to the tremere, we would likely end up as their puppet
4) If we do it publicly, we go against the prince and are going to encounter many difficulties. This may be a path to power however. (In the interests of moving the plot, the sabbat will likely attack)
5) If we shut up the setite/duMarchais fucks up everyone
6) If we go to the Sabbat (now) we die (most likely)
7) If we go to the Anarch, we break with the camarilla.

 

[ironyuri]

It depends on which faction you want to back i guess.

1) Prince faction
2) duMarchais/setite "faction"
3) Tremere faction
4) Indep, ambitious
5) Indep, modest
6) Sabbat
7) Anarch


1) If we tattle to the prince we stop the setite plan (but in the interests of moving the plot, the sabbat will likely attack)
2) Too late
3) If we had went to the tremere, we would likely end up as their puppet
4) If we do it publicly, we go against the prince and are going to encounter many difficulties. This may be a path to power however.
5) If we shut up the setite/duMarchais fucks up everyone
6) If we go to the Sabbat (now) we die (most likely)
7) If we go to the Anarch, we break with the camarilla.

I prefer Brujah or Malkavs, but in he spirit of our Ventrue I think we want to be on the path to power. I see a few outcomes:

1. Prince faction
>We back the Prince and he takes us into our favour.
>> We support the Prince despite his failing position.
>> We use his favour to betray him.
> We back the Prince who removes du Marchais, but remembers that we have been antagonistic toward his goals.
>> We get our short term rival out of the way but still have to contend with the long trm ire of the Prince
>> We get our short term rival out of the way and turn the Prince against us (maybe he implicates us)

The other options will have their own problems, but if we're politick about this we might get out alive and ahead.

 

[SCO]

I'm afraid we don't have the muscle to go against (or to keep them away) the prince and the sheriff. We didn't dominate the Brujah anarch, we didn't contact the Centurion, we can't trust Fellowes not to be a prince loyalist. In fact the only muscle we can count on is our own and a cane-sword and a peashooter.

We might possibly get the elders attention for a while, but they won't helps us. They'll laugh at the Prince, and laugh at us when the sheriff dismembers us.

 

[SCO]

So you still want to do it publicly? The Prince faction is, at a guess, not compatible with that.

 

[ironyuri]

So you still want to do it publicly? The Prince faction is, at a guess, not compatible with that.

Well, I guess it'll be up to grotsnik. I'm happy to get the information we need and then play along. Whatever grotsnik decides after that we won't know.

Our arguments might influence grotsnik, but I imagine he has a plot in mind already.

 

[Black Bart Charley]

Oi, I took the liberty to look for an easy, free, no registration for the creator and voter, online poll and here it is.
You go to the page, enter your name and vote and click save. You can change your vote by hovering over your name and clicking the pen symbol.
You can add free form comments at the bottom regarding who to phone or grot could make another poll for it.

http://www.doodle.com/b2ku8qnk8e7rqaew




Here is the administration link that is only visible to the creatorr, eg me, where the creator can lock! the poll and after the lock the participants could verify if their vote was not changed by someone.

http://www.doodle.com/b2ku8qnk8e7rqaewnpz9vubd/admin

Ah and grot, bro, you can create dem polls by choosing "Make a Choice" on the homepage.

 

[Serious_Business]

Man you faggots are out of control, thread augmented 5 pages since I last checked

There's no point in speculating that much, right now we're not even in a position to do much at all, unless you want to do a 360 but I'm not convinced by laclongqan's arguments and I think most people have voted B so far. B is the best choice not only because it's safest, but because it allows us some freedom of movement. The worst that can happen to us is that DuMarchais is right and we loose position and favor with the prince. Big deal. If everyone is in the dark then we can move in offer what we know - which isn't even all that much, unfortunately, so it's not like we can change things much either way (option A). I don't see a plot to kill us right now and I don't see how we could die unless we get excited and ask for it - i.e. options C or D. C or D is inane, Sabbat wouldn't care for a pot bellied asshole like us and they'd probably kill us out of principle.

Again - voting B

For the record, so far there's 2 D, 1 C, and the rest (4-5) are B, so it's pretty much B winning by a long margin.
Edit : you faggots are changing your votes in the pool

The call is more tricky, this is what we have to figure out right now. Forget the wild speculations, focus on what's happening right now. Who do we call? Don't think we have a concessus on that. I'm not sure myself.

 

[SCO]

I only voted A since B says "do nothing", "go along" whatever.

If we can phone the sheriff back and send the video as a attachment, there is no point bringing the evidence as far as i'm concerned.

 

[ironyuri]

I have steadily argued for B since the last chapter.

I have also presented my points on why to call Oscar.

Oscar said he'd phone us back so we are expecting to hear from him. A call to Oscar to speed things along might get us the info so we have time to make plans before arriving at the meeting. He may also provide other info we don't yet have about the meeting itself.

A call to the Sheriff could accomplish one of two things: 1. make her the one who tells the Prince of du Marchais' folly or 2. If she is complicit, ensure that she seeks to have us staked out without mercy.

If Oscar does not have the info we need, we've wasted a call. The Sheriff is 50/50. I'm just worried we can't trust the Sheriff. She thought she had us by the balls on the phone and it didn't sound like she was in the least disappointed that du Marchais got the upper hand eventhough she supposedly hates him more.

 

[SCO]

How exactly are you going to speak privately with the prince if not through her?

Are you going to the middle of the meet and say to the prince
"Excuse, me, i need to have a private word with you"?

Where is what is going to happen if you take B)

The raid goes ahead (you don't even have the evidence for gods sake), the sabbat are forewarned, you survive (thanks to the training, but both the sabbat and the camarilla are weakened). The prince may die, the sheriff may die, betrayed.

You will be set up, duMarchais tries to convince the primogens that he should be prince, you'll need to join the Anarchs or something like that.

 

[ironyuri]

How exactly are you going to speak privately with the prince if not through her?

Are you going to the middle of the meet and say to the prince
"Excuse, me, i need to have a private word with you"?

Where is what is going to happen if you take B)

The raid goes ahead, the sabbat are forewarned, you survive (thanks to the training, but both the sabbat and the camarilla are weakened).

I'm starting to weaken because of the sheer power of the Codex to bludgeon opinions through.

If we send what we know to the Sheriff, who hates du Marchais anyway, maybe she can be the one to ruin du Marchais, in which case we'll be in the clear.

 

[laclongquan]

I want to make very clear:

You bring the video in meaning you expose Oscar. Vamps will know he worked for you in this matter and he gonna get his suntan damn soon. Anyone of you ever think of go to the Camarilla to present your argument better think twice because you are heading toward sacrifice your best source.

D is batshit insane necesscary because we dont want to lose Oscar. The only way forward is to resolve once and for all the Terrance and Sabbat question.

Think twice before you choose, gentlemen.

 

[SCO]

The description of the sheriff is clear:

10 - The East End: Sheriff Erika Schiller. Horribly scarred, tough, and loyal to the rule of the Camarilla, the Sheriff has little love for Ventrue...but she will protect the reigning Prince with her life if need be. She keeps her headquarters near Liverpool Street, on the edge of the bustling, filthy alleyways of the East End. Schiller has never liked you - but then again, there are many in the city that she loathes even more.

This is what our dude thinks of her. Loyal to the camarilla above all.

Oscar will only be exposed to the sabbat if we make a big stink about it on a fucking all clan meeting. A private call directly to the prince has even the slight possibility of not being detected by the Nosferatu elders (very slight, very slim, i admit). I think he's working for them anyway. You know, that spy term, akin to "plausible deniability".

 

[Esquilax]

I have steadily argued for B since the last chapter.

I have also presented my points on why to call Oscar.

Oscar said he'd phone us back so we are expecting to hear from him. A call to Oscar to speed things along might get us the info so we have time to make plans before arriving at the meeting. He may also provide other info we don't yet have about the meeting itself.

A call to the Sheriff could accomplish one of two things: 1. make her the one who tells the Prince of du Marchais' folly or 2. If she is complicit, ensure that she seeks to have us staked out without mercy.

If Oscar does not have the info we need, we've wasted a call. The Sheriff is 50/50. I'm just worried we can't trust the Sheriff. She thought she had us by the balls on the phone and it didn't sound like she was in the least disappointed that du Marchais got the upper hand eventhough she supposedly hates him more.

Good points. I just got an idea - tell me if you think this is good or not. We call up Oscar, and instead, tell him to send the footage to the Sheriff's mobile anonymously. That way if she is complicit, we'll have covered our asses, but if she isn't, she will know the real story. Thoughts?

I'm starting to come around a bit to SCO's line of reasoning, It doesn't make sense to call up Oscar and waste our phone call by just telling him to work harder and hope that he comes through. If we can send the info to the Sheriff without outing ourselves in the process, we should be in the clear. Also, we won't have to sell our boy Oscar out.

 

[SCO]

That's a good idea, if grotsnik agrees. It is more or less the send anonymously idea, only with Oscar forewarned and agreeing.

two things, and 2) is the reason i wouldn't vote for it:
1) He might not agree

2) This situation seems designed to force us choosing a faction. I know many are not convinced of that, but that is what i think. Trying to keep us independent as a fucking Ventrue for gods sake, is a CRPG reflex than needs to be curbed here. There are no saves.

Edit: flip-flop

 

[grotsnik]

I'm absolutely fine with Esquilax's suggestion if you want to give that a go.

And cheers to Serious and BBC - I figured B was ahead, but all this flip-flopping was clouding my admittedly pathetic maths skills.