Layoffs at ZA/UM, unannounced game cancelled

[Lyric Suite]

Which is weird considering how little time they took to make the Final Cut with how big of a task it was. I suppose things just outright imploded inside the company after the whole Kurvitz fiasco, I already had low expectations but was willing to try (not buy unless it matched disco's quality, mind you) their new projects considering all the writing on the final cut was apparently not made by Kurvitz & co. Now? I'd be surprised if ZA/UM releases anything at all.

In my opinion there was very little chance for ZA/UM to make something interesting after they decided to kick out the guy who had the unquestionable vision, drive and actual knowledge of RPG genre, even if he was - as some claim - insufferable to work with.

If he was insufferable to work with how was Disco even made?

I don't pretend to understand what goes on in those hipster environments but i just have the feeling it's all just retardation and bullshitting.

Even the whole "hurr durr we are teh communists" shitck was just pretend. Real communists would never be able to make a game because video games by their very nature are a product of capitalism (a game is not like a painting or a novel that can be done by some starving artist living in an attic). Somehow, their supposed communist beliefs never got in the way during the whole process of procuring funds, allocating resources, maintaining productivity and marketing that was involved in Disco Elysium coming into being and being pushed out the door as a commercial product. If you know how to do all that and you can do it successfully how are you a communist?

 

[Lagole Gon]

“It's the people on top – the motherf*****s in sailing shoes and bowties – that f****d Harry, f****d Kim, f****d Robert, Rostov, Helen, Olga, Cash, f****d Elysium, f****d you and me too. They are not artists, they are professional f*****s,” he said.

“The mask has slipped from the face of capital. What remains at ZA/UM is a cold, careless company where managers wage war against their own creatives, where artistry is second to property, and where corporate strategy is formed by an arrogant disdain for their own audience.”

Hmpf.

Nöne of this wöuld happen if he stayed away from al-ghul.

 

[Tyranicon]

Making a good game like DE (a good anything professionally for that matter) is lightning in a bottle, it's the stars aligning for a brief moment in time - you want to sustain and extend that whateveritis for as long as possible. It's not a guarantee, but it's a damn sight better than bringing in a whole random bunch of people at great expense (even, at the bare minimum, from a marketing p.o.v. - "from the people who brought you x").

Single author products (whether art or entertainment) produce the most consistent results.

 

[Lord_Potato]

Making a good game like DE (a good anything professionally for that matter) is lightning in a bottle, it's the stars aligning for a brief moment in time - you want to sustain and extend that whateveritis for as long as possible. It's not a guarantee, but it's a damn sight better than bringing in a whole random bunch of people at great expense (even, at the bare minimum, from a marketing p.o.v. - "from the people who brought you x").

Single author products (whether art or entertainment) produce the most consistent results.

In gaming (or film) those results are very often underwhelming. One author simply cannot deliver good quality of coding, writing, gameplay, visuals, music, sounds etc.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Making a good game like DE (a good anything professionally for that matter) is lightning in a bottle, it's the stars aligning for a brief moment in time - you want to sustain and extend that whateveritis for as long as possible. It's not a guarantee, but it's a damn sight better than bringing in a whole random bunch of people at great expense (even, at the bare minimum, from a marketing p.o.v. - "from the people who brought you x").

Single author products (whether art or entertainment) produce the most consistent results.

In gaming (or film) those results are very often underwhelming. One author simply cannot deliver good quality of coding, writing, visuals, music, sounds etc.

You are talking to a single author extraordinaire.

 

[Häyhä]

Making a good game like DE (a good anything professionally for that matter) is lightning in a bottle, it's the stars aligning for a brief moment in time - you want to sustain and extend that whateveritis for as long as possible. It's not a guarantee, but it's a damn sight better than bringing in a whole random bunch of people at great expense (even, at the bare minimum, from a marketing p.o.v. - "from the people who brought you x").

Single author products (whether art or entertainment) produce the most consistent results.

In gaming (or film) those results are very often underwhelming. One author simply cannot deliver good quality of coding, writing, visuals, music, sounds etc.

Tell that to Eric Chahi who made Another World by himself when he was 24 or something and numerous others.

 

[Serus]

Making a good game like DE (a good anything professionally for that matter) is lightning in a bottle, it's the stars aligning for a brief moment in time - you want to sustain and extend that whateveritis for as long as possible. It's not a guarantee, but it's a damn sight better than bringing in a whole random bunch of people at great expense (even, at the bare minimum, from a marketing p.o.v. - "from the people who brought you x").

Single author products (whether art or entertainment) produce the most consistent results.

In gaming (or film) those results are very often underwhelming. One author simply cannot deliver good quality of coding, writing, visuals, music, sounds etc.

They are very often underwhelming otherwise as well, what's your point? Also consistent != having best quality visuals or music, etc...

 

[Lord_Potato]

Single author products (whether art or entertainment) produce the most consistent results.

In gaming (or film) those results are very often underwhelming. One author simply cannot deliver good quality of coding, writing, visuals, music, sounds etc.

You are talking to a single author extraordinaire.

Yes, I played all games by Tyranicon . I enjoy them. There're really good in the writing department, but the gameplay is hampered by RPGMaker, the engine is so bloated with scripts that it lags on my desktop (that can run CP2077 with no problems), and the art is commissioned so a) there is lack of stylistic cohesion b) I've seen it used in several other games by other authors.

Games most loved by rpgcodex were all made by teams and there's a good reason for it.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

You guys all seem oblivious to the fact that the truly communist core of ZA/UM (Kurvitz and his closest friends) is no longer there, they all got fired back in 2022, and for years the studio has been under the rule of firmly capitalist CEO, Ilmar Kompus. It is his failures at management that are the reason for cancelling games and sacking dozens of employees.

Trotsky and his Wreckers must be eliminated.

 

[processdaemon]

Growth is often good but it should be done slowly in fields where individuals contributions matter because you need to screen each new hire for whether they're a good culture fit. If you hire a bunch of bad culture fits you risk creating opposing factions within your team, and even if the candidates aren't 'bad' per se if there are enough of them they'll potentially bring enough outside influence in to dilute what made your team work together well in the first place.

 

[Tyranicon]

Yes, I played all games by Tyranicon . I enjoy them. There're really good in the writing department, but the gameplay is hampered by RPGMaker, the engine is so bloated with scripts that it lags on my desktop (that can run CP2077 with no problems), and the art is commissioned so a) there is lack of stylistic cohesion b) I've seen it used in several other games by other authors.

Games most loved by rpgcodex were all made by teams and there's a good reason for it.

I didn't make that post to humblebrag (more like humble insult if anything) but there's far better examples than me.

Stardew Valley
Undertale
KoTC (probably? if codex is to be trusted)
Grimoire
Good Jeff Vogel games
Minecraft
etc

The list goes on and on. Unfortunately most of these dudes just dipped after their first entry so we'll never see if "consistent" is accurate when it comes to games.

Is true with other media (books, art, etc).

 

[Lord_Potato]

I didn't make that post to humblebrag (more like humble insult if anything) but there's far better examples than me.

Stardew Valley

Maybe, never played it so I don't know

Undertale

Terrible pedo game

KoTC (probably? if codex is to be trusted)

Good tactical combat, but everything else shovelware level. You can't get them all as a solodev.

Grimoire

Didn't play it yet, not a fan of blobbers.

Good Jeff Vogel games

Spiderweb software is actually a two-people project - Jeff makes games with his wife. He's also very bad at visual design. Even when he commissions pretty art, he uses them in a way that makes it somehow makes it less appealing. His games offer solid writing and superior exploration but combat is often very basic if not outright primitive.

Minecraft

It's fun to play with a 7-year-old child, but I would not waste my gaming time on it otherwise. Emergent gameplay may be cool, but no story, ugly visuals and the general pointlessness of it all would be a big no-no for me.

Is true with other media (books, art, etc).

There are arts in which a single author can excel - like literature, painting or playing piano. And there are those were in order to achieve great results you need a strong team - like cinematography.

 

[Tyranicon]

There's also something I personally like from solodev projects, I'm not sure how to describe it, so I'll call it "cohesion of intent" or something.

It's interesting to see a singular vision in a multimedia project. When you have a team, this intent needs to be wrangled together by a manager type, but with solodevs, you can see how a single person does everything. What they place priorities on, what they like doing, what they struggle with, etc.

Like, you play through Caves of Lore (probably gonna make it top 5 in the GOTY poll) and you can clearly tell the dev has a lot of love for the genre. That adds to the experience of playing a game imo, the feeling that it was crafted with intent, instead of being shitted out as a product.

It's a not a sum of many parts, but a "whole" design from one person. And that makes it fascinating to me (although probably not a consideration for most people).

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Tyranicon​

The existence of devs like Kojimbo prove that team projects can have that singular "cohesion of intent"
For better or worse, Kojima's games are unquestionably Kojima's games

And unlike in the West, in Jap game development it's common for the game director to be the guy with the final decision over every aspect of the game
Obviously this means that if successful they get the laurels, but if not they get the chopping block

 

[Late Bloomer]

Disco Elysium is never getting a sequel or spin-off, says final original writer to be laid off at ZA/UM
“The individuals of ZA/UM, the cultural movement, have left the corporate body behind.”

https://www.vg247.com/disco-elysium-last-writer-no-sequels-zaum

Argo Tuulik and Dora Klindžić have discussed the current atmosphere at the studio, with Tuulik, the last writer from the original Disco Elysium to be left at the studio, suggesting that he thinks it “will forever stay a one-game studio.”

 

[Tyranicon]

Tyranicon​

The existence of devs like Kojimbo prove that team projects can have that singular "cohesion of intent"
For better or worse, Kojima's games are unquestionably Kojima's games

And unlike in the West, in Jap game development it's common for the game director to be the guy with the final decision over every aspect of the game
Obviously this means that if successful they get the laurels, but if not they get the chopping block

The Japanese are built different, fr fr, no joke.

Edit: I would gladly pay so much money you wouldn't believe to see Kojima do solodev.

Like a whole 3 figures.

Fr, fr

 

[gurugeorge]

There's also something I personally like from solodev projects, I'm not sure how to describe it, so I'll call it "cohesion of intent" or something.

It's interesting to see a singular vision in a multimedia project. When you have a team, this intent needs to be wrangled together by a manager type, but with solodevs, you can see how a single person does everything. What they place priorities on, what they like doing, what they struggle with, etc.

Like, you play through Caves of Lore (probably gonna make it top 5 in the GOTY poll) and you can clearly tell the dev has a lot of love for the genre. That adds to the experience of playing a game imo, the feeling that it was crafted with intent, instead of being shitted out as a product.

It's a not a sum of many parts, but a "whole" design from one person. And that makes it fascinating to me (although probably not a consideration for most people).

You can also get that from teams though - like Looking Glass at their peak, or Troika or whatever. Fairly small, dedicated teams of (mostly) men who can communicate directly and quickly and mesh their ideas quickly, without needing too many meetings and all that crap, with all of them pulling their weight, etc., can also have a unity of vision if they're all literally on the same page, as the saying goes.

Music would be a very analogous example, although it's more like a jazz quartet than a classical group playing written music - the thing has a ground plan, but it's also improvised as the team goes, a bit of an adventure into the unknown. Also hunting parties, raiding parties, that instinct.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Group projects work best when still led by a single, strong, unified vision. So I think Tyranicon's point still stands. Design by committee and consensus will always result in something bland and derivative.

 

[Colossal Maximus]

You guys all seem oblivious to the fact that the truly communist core of ZA/UM (Kurvitz and his closest friends) is no longer there, they all got fired back in 2022, and for years the studio has been under the rule of firmly capitalist CEO, Ilmar Kompus. It is his failures at management that are the reason for cancelling games and sacking dozens of employees.

Kurvitz may call himself a communist, but his actions as described by his peers in that video recount him as a capitalist - same as the people he claims stole his IP. He wanted to be at the top, with his "in group," doing less work than the people below him while receiving more credit and money. That is not communism. Maybe his ideologies are communist, but his actions seem anything but (if one simply goes off of what was described in that video by his coworkers - i.e. 2-4month or 2 year sabbaticals and trying to dive in to strongarm a leadership role).

 

[KVVRR]

it's over.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

LET GO

 

[Volrath]

And nothing of value will be lost.

See, sometimes good things do happen.

 

[Serus]

You guys all seem oblivious to the fact that the truly communist core of ZA/UM (Kurvitz and his closest friends) is no longer there, they all got fired back in 2022, and for years the studio has been under the rule of firmly capitalist CEO, Ilmar Kompus. It is his failures at management that are the reason for cancelling games and sacking dozens of employees.

Kurvitz may call himself a communist, but his actions as described by his peers in that video recount him as a capitalist - same as the people he claims stole his IP. He wanted to be at the top, with his "in group," doing less work than the people below him while receiving more credit and money. That is not communism. Maybe his ideologies are communist, but his actions seem anything but (if one simply goes off of what was described in that video by his coworkers - i.e. 2-4month or 2 year sabbaticals and trying to dive in to strongarm a leadership role).

Au contraire, that is exactly communism.

 

[Serus]

I didn't make that post to humblebrag (more like humble insult if anything) but there's far better examples than me.

Stardew Valley

Maybe, never played it so I don't know

Undertale

Terrible pedo game

KoTC (probably? if codex is to be trusted)

Good tactical combat, but everything else shovelware level. You can't get them all as a solodev.

Grimoire

Didn't play it yet, not a fan of blobbers.

Good Jeff Vogel games

Spiderweb software is actually a two-people project - Jeff makes games with his wife. He's also very bad at visual design. Even when he commissions pretty art, he uses them in a way that makes it somehow makes it less appealing. His games offer solid writing and superior exploration but combat is often very basic if not outright primitive.

Minecraft

It's fun to play with a 7-year-old child, but I would not waste my gaming time on it otherwise. Emergent gameplay may be cool, but no story, ugly visuals and the general pointlessness of it all would be a big no-no for me.

Is true with other media (books, art, etc).

There are arts in which a single author can excel - like literature, painting or playing piano. And there are those were in order to achieve great results you need a strong team - like cinematography.

This to me this looks simply as your preferences, poorly informed at that in some cases.

There are mediums where you can excel as single author or a small or very small team - like game development. You simply assume that high tech graphics are required to excel. That's an assumption, from my perspective a bad one. Also no game, even if team's size is counted in hundreds, excels in everything. Ever. At least I can't think of any such game. You however seem to have double standards here. To excel doesn't mean be best at everything - that's impossible - but make great game as a whole excelling in the most important areas for a given game or genre. In my opinion single developers and very small studios do it better.

There is a question of what "single author" really means as well. Technically, perhaps, Vogel games are made by Vogels instead but does it really matter? Is a game made by two people if a mother of a basement dwelling nerd brings him food to his lair? That's an absurd exemple but the question is there. The point is for the game to be made with a single mind rather than single author. This in large development team is impossible because there is only so many people one person can control and force his vision upon at the same time.

 

[REhorror]

Holy based!