KOTOR2 Early Review aka Bashings, Smashings, & Cursings

[Eclecticist]

I've just acquired KOTOR II, and I have a long night ahead of me.

 

[Elwro]

... trying to deal with the game's SecuROM, right? :D

 

[Eclecticist]

No, that was a breeze. I meant playing the game :wink:.

I played for about three hours and just boarded the Harbinger command deck from Peragus. I'm enjoying it a lot, the retro KotoR feelings (which I hadn't played since a rushed run-through on its release) are great. It's hell fun playing a Star Wars game again too.

Superficialities aside:

The dialogue is great. Very professionally and dare I say intelligently written.
The same goes for the voicework, they're decently acted.
The NPCs have been rather bland thus far, but I haven't talked to them much yet. Kreia is definitely an interesting and original NPC - not startlingly original but unexpected.
The sped up animation of the spacesuit walk was hilarious. It actually looked kind of cheap though, in a way.
So far a lot of thought and good design has gone into the opening 'dungeon', the only thing letting it down is the stagnant environments and combat.
The inventory management is clunky and irritating (fucking Xbox).
The droids die way too easily.
Obsidian have made a lot of the small niggling issues easier to deal with now (like having to read holodisks etc).
The combat animations for the vibroblade look like they're out of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, not Star Wars.
The miner's uniform is still skin-tight. I really, really hope this isn't going to be a repeat of KotoR 1's 'different colours of lycra'.

That's all for tonight, it's getting on to 4am and I should sleep.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Incorrect. First, you can always bump your Int up a bit to have more points. Guardian doesn't mean that you should max out Str and ignore other stats.

This is a pretty stupid thing to say. Even if you up that INT, you're still lagging behind the Sentinel by two skills per INT score. If you had 40 or so CPs to create your character, then sure, up that INT for a Guardian, but you don't.

Guardians are better off putting points in things like CON and DEX, so they can get implants to make up for their lack of skill raising and to offset armor penalties. Also, you're better off burning those feats on things like Gearhead and Empathy than on unlocking the non-class skills. Burning a feat for every skill, plus burning CPs on INT upon creation, and burning the once every four level attribute thing on INT is foolish.

STR in KotOR2 is pretty damned useless, BTW. Guns rely on DEX, your AC relies on DEX, and if you add Finesse: Melee or Finesse: Lightsaber, you got all that wrapped up in one attribute.

Second, Guardians get truckloads of feats. There are skill feats that remove cross-class penalties and skills increasing feats.

So? The Sentinel gets quite a few feats as well. Not as much as the Guardian, but how many combat skills do you really need? That's what the abundance of feats are. You're going to be using the hell out of your skills more than you are those feats.

Fourth, a lot of armor related items require awareness, treat injury, not repair. Also, there is no shortage of armor parts that one could find in the game.

Yeah, so you need three skills to craft armor. Boy, that certainly helps your case for the Guardian sucking due to a lack of skills!

Update: You only use your repair skill to break items. You can use your party members with proper skills to make items for you.

That's only if you have them in your party, and what they can make is pretty darned limited.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Long rant:

I offically purchased my copy of KOTOR2 at friday and have just finished it. It's a hell lot easier than KOTOR1, I dare say. Combat is a ridiculous breeze to get through and I didn't use any healing until I got to Nar Shaddaa and started messing with the Exchange. Having then defeated the bosses of the game; I feel like I have been robbed of something. As long as you can handle equipment and their upgrades, chances are you'll never get much of a challenge from KOTOR2. Put the difficulty setting on maximum, so you get at least some challenge.

However, easy combat issues put aside: KOTOR2 surpasses the original game with great lenghts. The dialogue is just fricking marvelous (on contrary to Bio's efforts) and the game's story is a much darker side of Star Wars than what Bio weaved up. There's a brilliant cutscene where one of the main characters gets brutally beaten by one of the bad guys. I got an instant feeling of "whoa, yeah". Obsidian is delivering in the story department and trying to minimize the kiddie factor. Great indeed.

There's still a lot of "you are the chosen one"-talk, but it's not easy to get away from that stuff in Star Wars and at least there's no talk about your great kick ass-ability. People doesn't think all too good about you, to undermine the fact that you truly are cast out. The best part is of course the fact that you are given a chance to defend yourself (on contrary to Bio's efforts) whenever badmouthed. You get to take part in a whole lot of serious debates regarding yourself (oh, your big ego!) and it's all fun getting to know the history of the player character through the eyes of others.

The party characters are well-designed and I don't care if people say Atton Rand is annoying. He's kick ass compared to Carth and doesn't whine. He complains and oozes with Han Solo-attitude. There's a difference. Trust me, there is.

The influence system: works well and beats taking the characters out for a walk anytime you want to talk about something. Obsidian has made the character play a more important role in this game, and that's something to applaud. I'd just wish there was some way to keep track about how influenced each character is, however.

The game is now checking for skills, also in dialogue. This makes for a good reason to placing points in other places than Persuade and Awareness.

Stuff to complain about: there's way too many bugs in here than what's acceptable. There's especially a dialogue skipping bug that hinders you from hearing any dialogue. This could've been a useful feature when talking with aliens (who are still a really good reason for genocide in Star Wars just because of them being really annoying) but it's really nasty when there's important quest notes to be taken. You can check the journal that records almost everything you do - including stuff not shown up as subtitles, but really...

In short: IMHO, Obsidian managed to make an rpg out of Bio's adventure game. It's fucking great! BioWare should be forwarding all their sequel plans to Obsidian.

 

[Volourn]

"KOTOR2 surpasses the original game with great lenghts."

Bullshit.


"The dialogue is just fricking marvelous"

It's good. Not marvelous. It's too reptive, and some of it is just plain. "Youa re the last jedi." just after you met another Jedi - not to mention the fact you hadn't sued your force powers in ten years. Not to mention the fact yo are a jedi anymore.


"the game's story is a much darker side of Star Wars than what Bio weaved up"

Huh? No, it isn't. How is this so?


"There's a brilliant cutscene where one of the main characters gets brutally beaten by one of the bad guys."

There's this cutscene where the PC can order one of his party members to kill another party member in KOTOR1. That's even cooler!


"There's still a lot of "you are the chosen one"-talk, but it's not easy to get away from that stuff in Star Wars and at least there's no talk about your great kick ass-ability."

WTF? You on crack? People are ALWAYS talking about your great ass kicking ability. Always.


"The best part is of course the fact that you are given a chance to defend yourself (on contrary to Bio's efforts) whenever badmouthed."

Not always.


"The party characters are well-designed and I don't care if people say Atton Rand is annoying. He's kick ass compared to Carth and doesn't whine. He complains and oozes with Han Solo-attitude. There's a difference. Trust me, there is."

No. He's a whiner. All he does is whine. He's also very shallow. "I killed lots of Jedi, I don't regret it because theyd esevred it; but I'ma good guy now!" R00fles!

And, most of the others aren't better. The four females (yes, including Kreia) have depth; but the males are shallow to the bone.


"The influence system: works well and beats taking the characters out for a walk anytime you want to talk about something."

The influence system is okay. It's nice that the NPCs cna influence you; it's too bad you rarely can actually influene system which was its original purpose.


"The game is now checking for skills, also in dialogue. This makes for a good reason to placing points in other places than Persuade and Awareness."

This is where the game excels. For the most part; skills are sued a lot. It's too bad that with just 8 skills; you pretty much cna have themj covered so if you want to you don't have to sacrifice them.


In conclusion, you are a braindead fanboy. How do you know this? Because you mention Obsidian and Bioware multipel times in your post. Youa re too worried about comapring them; then discussing the game. Lame.

 

[Vault Dweller]

This is a pretty stupid thing to say. Even if you up that INT, you're still lagging behind the Sentinel by two skills per INT score. If you had 40 or so CPs to create your character, then sure, up that INT for a Guardian, but you don't.
...
Burning a feat for every skill, plus burning CPs on INT upon creation, and burning the once every four level attribute thing on INT is foolish.

Are you trying to say that there is only one correct way to play a character, Saint? Anyway, my point was that even when playing a Guardian you can easily increase INT to cover 4 skills (I recommend 3 class skills and 1 cross-class skill with a proper feat). That was never meant to prove that Guardian is as good as Sentinel in the skills department, but that Guardians are not as handicapped and useless as you painted them.

Overall, I agree that Sentinel is the best and more interesting class. Since I wanted to play twice and see the difference, I have chosen Guardian for the LS and Sentinel for the DS.

... how many combat skills do you really need? That's what the abundance of feats are.

Exactly. You can easily get all the cross-skill and skill increasing feats you need.

You're going to be using the hell out of your skills more than you are those feats.

I wouldn't go as far as say "the hell out of". You have party members who can handle everything but the dialogue checks and some crafting/repair. Considering the nature of the game, the dialogues and crafting are flavor features.

Yeah, so you need three skills to craft armor. Boy, that certainly helps your case for the Guardian sucking due to a lack of skills!

Like I said, bumping your Int and getting some feats solve that problem if we ignore the fact that party members can easily do that for you and that you can find/buy many upgrades.

Update: You only use your repair skill to break items. You can use your party members with proper skills to make items for you.

That's only if you have them in your party

What a great point. Uh, why wouldn't you have them in your party? There are many places where a workbench is located next to your ship, so switching party members to get all the skills that you need is easy.

...and what they can make is pretty darned limited.

Is that a fact? Here are some field-testing results:

Currently, "The Chosen One" Guardian can make 45 types of armor upgrades and 28 types of lightsaber upgrades. Bao-Dur can make 49 types of armor and 38 (yep, that's 10 more) lightsaber upgrades. Granny Kreia can make 45 and 26 respectively. You were saying?

 

[Rhombus]

Can I add a short review:

Nice game, was entertaining and all that.
A bit to short, about 24 hours tops and I was done.
I like lightsabers, they are cool.

Probably will try play it through once more to see the dark side of it.

When is Kotor 3 gonna be out?

 

[Lomer]

STR in KotOR2 is pretty damned useless, BTW. Guns rely on DEX, your AC relies on DEX, and if you add Finesse: Melee or Finesse: Lightsaber, you got all that wrapped up in one attribute.

Yeah, but even with Finesse: Melee or Finesse: Lightsaber your melee damage bonus will be based on your STR. DEX bonus will apply only to your chance to hit.

One quick question: Is everyone of your followers (excluding the droids) force sensitive? I was very annoyed when I had to make Bao Dur a Jedi Guardian (it was the only meaningful dialogue choice I had at this moment). Atton can be also taught the way of the force and I suspect that's the case with the Handmaiden as well. I thought that was supposed to be some rare gift.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I offically purchased my copy of KOTOR2 at friday and have just finished it. It's a hell lot easier than KOTOR1, I dare say. Combat is a ridiculous breeze to get through and I didn't use any healing until I got to Nar Shaddaa and started messing with the Exchange. Having then defeated the bosses of the game; I feel like I have been robbed of something. As long as you can handle equipment and their upgrades, chances are you'll never get much of a challenge from KOTOR2. Put the difficulty setting on maximum, so you get at least some challenge.

Well, combat for me wasn't exactly a breeze. Then again, I never optimised my character and his equipment FOR combat. In fact, I fought the main bad guys wearing the Charisma/Persausion headgear. I was also wearing that Exchange Belt dealie that boosted demolition and other related skills rather than a combat oriented one.

In fact, fighting the main boss, I had to queue Life Pack followed by Critical Strike over and over again just to win that fight.

I didn't use much healing items up until then, but I had large amounts of FORCE and I used FORCE HEAL fairly often.

That said, I think I was level 28 when I finished, and honestly, I don't expect too many things being much of a match for a Jedi of that stature.

However, easy combat issues put aside: KOTOR2 surpasses the original game with great lenghts. The dialogue is just fricking marvelous (on contrary to Bio's efforts) and the game's story is a much darker side of Star Wars than what Bio weaved up. There's a brilliant cutscene where one of the main characters gets brutally beaten by one of the bad guys. I got an instant feeling of "whoa, yeah". Obsidian is delivering in the story department and trying to minimize the kiddie factor. Great indeed.

Okay, I don't think I got that cutscene, but I agree on everything else. The writing in KotOR2 blows the original away. The voice acting was a lot better as well. I'm not so sure if the writing didn't help the delivery, though.

The influence system: works well and beats taking the characters out for a walk anytime you want to talk about something. Obsidian has made the character play a more important role in this game, and that's something to applaud. I'd just wish there was some way to keep track about how influenced each character is, however.

I agree. I would have loved to have been able to see qualitatively if not quantitatively how influenced everyone was.

Stuff to complain about: there's way too many bugs in here than what's acceptable. There's especially a dialogue skipping bug that hinders you from hearing any dialogue.

I got that bug in KotOR as well. I would have been nice if someone had fixed it for this one, since BioWare never did.

Stuff to complain about: there's way too many bugs in here than what's acceptable.

My favorite bug is there's a puzzle where they give you some numbers and you have to figure out the operators that will result in the given answer. If you get it wrong, it blows up this terminal and you can never use the terminal again. Either it always blows up, or there's more than one answer to the equation and I came up with the one Obsidian wasn't thinking of.

Are you trying to say that there is only one correct way to play a character, Saint?

No, you're free to be stupid in your character design if you want.

Anyway, my point was that even when playing a Guardian you can easily increase INT to cover 4 skills (I recommend 3 class skills and 1 cross-class skill with a proper feat). That was never meant to prove that Guardian is as good as Sentinel in the skills department, but that Guardians are not as handicapped and useless as you painted them.

Yeah, they are. The consular and guardian are both weak as shit. About the only time I'll grant you that guardians are better than the sentinel is at the very, very end when you're fighting the main boss. The second to last boss, the Sentinel can chip away at their beefiness with skill based dialogue.

An armored guardian probably wouldn't have the problem I had with the last boss.

Exactly. You can easily get all the cross-skill and skill increasing feats you need.

Getting the feat is fairly easy, but is it smart to spend a feat on something that's going to cost you a bunch of CPs that would be better off spent elsewhere? Or burning those once-per-four-level attribute increases? You're better off burning those feats on the skill package feats and spending your CPs and attribute increases on something that will be less costly.

If you want to keep arguing that what I'm saying isn't as good, I will be forced to conclude that you have low testosterone levels in your brain.

I wouldn't go as far as say "the hell out of". You have party members who can handle everything but the dialogue checks and some crafting/repair. Considering the nature of the game, the dialogues and crafting are flavor features.

Those dialogue checks are all over the place, as are computer terminals, things to repeir, and so forth. One decent use of computer slicing or repair can net you gobs of kills, bonus quests, more experience from dialogue, and so forth.

KotOR2 is very skills based, and as such, the Sentinel reigns over the other classes because it's the one that gets gobs of skill points just by being a sentinel.

Like I said, bumping your Int and getting some feats solve that problem if we ignore the fact that party members can easily do that for you and that you can find/buy many upgrades.

1.) Party members can't craft armor.
2.) What you find is based on luck. I just completed a game without finding any overlays, for example.

What a great point. Uh, why wouldn't you have them in your party? There are many places where a workbench is located next to your ship, so switching party members to get all the skills that you need is easy.

Why wouldn't you have them in your party? Because maybe you haven't been to the planet where you pick them up yet? Durrrrrrrrr!

 

[Andyman Messiah]

"KOTOR2 surpasses the original game with great lenghts."

Bullshit.

I'm sure they do.

"The dialogue is just fricking marvelous"

It's good. Not marvelous. It's too reptive, and some of it is just plain. "Youa re the last jedi." just after you met another Jedi - not to mention the fact you hadn't sued your force powers in ten years. Not to mention the fact yo are a jedi anymore.

The dialogue is intelligent, although it takes a perceptive mind to spot it. Also, when you meet Atris (the "another Jedi"), the PC can say the Sith thinks he/she's the last of the Jedi. Something that both PC and Atris thinks is bullshit since Atris regards herself as the last Jedi, and you're exiled and just doesn't want to anymore. Awww...

"the game's story is a much darker side of Star Wars than what Bio weaved up"

Huh? No, it isn't. How is this so?

While KOTOR1 was mostly about hope, what we get here in KOTOR2 is a galaxy where things have gone to hell. There are funny stuff, but most of the universe is in a rather depressed state. Another example I can think about is the whole take on the Jedi-religion.

"There's a brilliant cutscene where one of the main characters gets brutally beaten by one of the bad guys."

There's this cutscene where the PC can order one of his party members to kill another party member in KOTOR1. That's even cooler!

No, that was just a comic relief.

"There's still a lot of "you are the chosen one"-talk, but it's not easy to get away from that stuff in Star Wars and at least there's no talk about your great kick ass-ability."

WTF? You on crack? People are ALWAYS talking about your great ass kicking ability. Always.

Okay, forget about the kick ass-ability. They do mention you're über in leadership and stuff, but you're absolutely not some kind of a chosen one. Fellow jedis mostly dislikes you and wants you to answer to your crimes. In their regard, the exile is a moron that defied the council - not the great kick ass general that defeated the mandalorians together with Revan.

"The best part is of course the fact that you are given a chance to defend yourself (on contrary to Bio's efforts) whenever badmouthed."

Not always.

But enough.

"The party characters are well-designed and I don't care if people say Atton Rand is annoying. He's kick ass compared to Carth and doesn't whine. He complains and oozes with Han Solo-attitude. There's a difference. Trust me, there is."

No. He's a whiner. All he does is whine. He's also very shallow. "I killed lots of Jedi, I don't regret it because theyd esevred it; but I'ma good guy now!" R00fles!

We have different opinions about what makes a whiner, then.

And, most of the others aren't better. The four females (yes, including Kreia) have depth; but the males are shallow to the bone.

I think all characters you pick up are okay. Exception would be Horny (whatever his name is) who sounds exactly like a scary kindergarten teacher I had once (the horror) and "little, annoying beeping droid" who are contributing as much as zero to the party. Yeah, yeah: Horny "helps" build your lightsaber and Droid-on-wheels saves the day in the beginning, but hey; what's next?

"The influence system: works well and beats taking the characters out for a walk anytime you want to talk about something."

The influence system is okay. It's nice that the NPCs cna influence you; it's too bad you rarely can actually influene system which was its original purpose.

*sighs*

In conclusion, you are a braindead fanboy. How do you know this? Because you mention Obsidian and Bioware multipel times in your post. Youa re too worried about comapring them; then discussing the game. Lame.

Whatever, little Volourn.

Okay, I don't think I got that cutscene, but I agree on everything else. The writing in KotOR2 blows the original away. The voice acting was a lot better as well. I'm not so sure if the writing didn't help the delivery, though.

It's a hidden cutscene you can trigger in dialogue with Kreia. It's no blood and gore scene, but at least there's some level of nice brutality in there to make it different.

I got that bug in KotOR as well. I would have been nice if someone had fixed it for this one, since BioWare never did.

Is it in KOTOR1 as well? Huh, never encountered it there. Nice to hear the engine's being stable and all.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Are you trying to say that there is only one correct way to play a character, Saint?

No, you're free to be stupid in your character design if you want.

My Guardian kills anything in 2-3 hits and has good skills. There is nothing stupid in such a build. I deeply regret that you don't approve of my choices, of course. My self-esteem and day are ruined now.

Yeah, they are. The consular and guardian are both weak as shit. About the only time I'll grant you that guardians are better than the sentinel is at the very, very end when you're fighting the main boss.

Guardians are "weak as shit"? Can you explain?

If you want to keep arguing that what I'm saying isn't as good, I will be forced to conclude that you have low testosterone levels in your brain.

I'm not arguing that what you are saying isn't good, I'm arguing that what I'm saying isn't bad either. Points for the insult though, very witty.

Those dialogue checks are all over the place, as are computer terminals, things to repeir, and so forth. One decent use of computer slicing or repair can net you gobs of kills, bonus quests, more experience from dialogue, and so forth.

Like I said, with my build you get a lot of checks: Int, Medical, Awareness, Demolition, Repair, and Persuasion. Party members handle computers, security, stealth, etc. So, what's your point? Are you mad at me because I'm not playing a dumb Guardian with 1 skill and without party members thus proving your point that Guardians suck? My apologies.

Party members can't craft armor.

Uh, what game are you playing, Saint?

Why wouldn't you have them in your party? Because maybe you haven't been to the planet where you pick them up yet? Durrrrrrrrr!

Didn't you get Atton and Kreia right away? Just curious.

Let' summarize:

Other than calling me stupid, your position relied on the following facts:

Party members can't craft armor - false
You may not have party members - false
If you somehow manage to capture a party member and force him/her to make something, what they can make is "pretty darn limited" - also false

What else you've got?

 

[Andyman Messiah]

One quick question: Is everyone of your followers (excluding the droids) force sensitive? I was very annoyed when I had to make Bao Dur a Jedi Guardian (it was the only meaningful dialogue choice I had at this moment). Atton can be also taught the way of the force and I suspect that's the case with the Handmaiden as well. I thought that was supposed to be some rare gift.

All humanoid party members you pick up can be trained to use the force and become Jedi, yes. I haven't gotten Bao Dur to submit to my training yet, but you cleared it up for me. The force isn't exactly selective, is it?

Edit: Forgot about Mandalore. I don't know if he can be trained, but I don't think so.

 

[AZ]

I'm the only one who feels wird that the generic body model of your hero look like if you had given 18 points to strength and constitution?

 

[Volourn]

"bit to short, about 24 hours tops and I was done."

WTH? Do you even read anything? Usinga walk through? On speed? I'mat 23 hours, am level 19, and still got a few planet sleft. WOWSERS! Then again, I take my time. <>


"The dialogue is intelligent, although it takes a perceptive mind to spot it. Also, when you meet Atris (the "another Jedi"), the PC can say the Sith thinks he/she's the last of the Jedi. Something that both PC and Atris thinks is bullshit since Atris regards herself as the last Jedi, and you're exiled and just doesn't want to anymore. Awww..."

Yeah, that must be it. The dialogue is sooooooooooooooooooo intelligent it's way above puny me to understand.

just keep repeating the following and you might believe it; but I sure non't: "I am the last jedi, I am the least Jedi, I am the least jedi!"


"While KOTOR1 was mostly about hope, what we get here in KOTOR2 is a galaxy where things have gone to hell. There are funny stuff, but most of the universe is in a rather depressed state. Another example I can think about is the whole take on the Jedi-religion."

What a retard. No, it wasn't. KOTOR1 was mostly dealing with your past, and either redeeeming or falling even further. KOTOR1 is *only* about hope if the player makes it about hope. Or could be about being "evil" or "dark side". Then again, I guess blowing up an entire planet with billions of people is considered Happy Happy Land to you. Not to mention, having a wookiee kill his best friend, and everything your character or npcs do in KOTOR1. Both games are "dark". Neitehr one is 'darker'.


"No, that was just a comic relief."

Only funny in a 'dark side' kind of way.


"Okay, forget about the kick ass-ability. They do mention you're über in leadership and stuff, but you're absolutely not some kind of a chosen one. Fellow jedis mostly dislikes you and wants you to answer to your crimes. In their regard, the exile is a moron that defied the council - not the great kick ass general that defeated the mandalorians together with Revan."

WTF? You on crack? The Jedis I met sure don't think that way. Not even Atris in her arrogance thinks your character is a 'moron'. She seems to be more dissapointed in your choices. And, the one you meet on Nar Shadaar actually REGRETS the Councils' decision to banish you. In fact, he calls you brave, and honourable for returning to them for jdugement and feels they were rash in passing judgement the way they did. You obviously didn't interact wiuth them. As for Raven, yeah, they consider him a genius - such a genius they decided to mind wipe him, and use him as a play toy. R00fles!


"We have different opinions about what makes a whiner, then."

A whiner is someone who whines. heck, my intial complaining about bugs could be classifed as whining. C'est la vie.


"I think all characters you pick up are okay. Exception would be Horny (whatever his name is) who sounds exactly like a scary kindergarten teacher I had once (the horror) and "little, annoying beeping droid" who are contributing as much as zero to the party. Yeah, yeah: Horny "helps" build your lightsaber and Droid-on-wheels saves the day in the beginning, but hey; what's next?"

Atton offers me nothing. The only things even remotely enterianing/interesting about him is the playing of Pazaak in his head, and his constant WHINING about being captured REPEATEDLY. R00fles! Bao Dur seems pretty cool; but sooo one dimensional and quite frankly boring. And, I'm pissed off that he got to make my light sabre. What a rip!


"*sighs*"

That's right. Better not to dispute the undisputable. The NPCS influence the PC; not the other waya round. only in rare cases can you *truly* get them to see things your way. *yawn*

YOu are a fanboy. Deal with it.


As for the whole SP vs. VD mess; I gotta kinda side with VD here. With just 8 skills in the game, even a Jedi Fighter Class can have most of the skills he needs.

As for strnegth. It's useless. i have a strength of 10, and my sabre can steal do 40 damage non critical/power attack wise. *yawn* The only time having a good strnegth is sueful is fighting in the Mandolarian camp duels. I had use some strnegth items on my character after dying the first time since I got torn to shreds in the second to last battle. R00fles!

 

[Surlent]

Surlent's EARly review:
I just got to Telus, nailed the merc and got my first CTD. Basically I'm going to nag and bitch about same things as everyone else.

CONS
The start is helllava boring. Combat even with hard setting, is way too easy. It's total muchin fest, you powerlevel like there's no end and get hordes of items so fast it makes diablo2 look like chess.
Scoundrel sidekick whateverhisname is annoying copy of Harrison Ford (Ford is a good actor, a polygon with jackass voiceacting and dialogue isn't).
The old hag is just like from IWD: Heart of Winter xpansion, only not naked. Yet both are annoying NPCs I wish I could get rid of, in HoW I could.
What's the deal with *not* attacking NPCs and own partymembers ? I can't seem to find a button which iniates combat against friendly allies.

Setting is Star Wars and everything is exactly like from the movies, you'd think after 30 years someone would start doing some things different like changing those ridiculous helmets the republic soldiers are wearing. Then again Jedi Academy and Jedi Outcast went pretty much the same way (Does anyone know how much 'Star Wars' there is going to be in Republic Commando ?).

Now for the positive thingies. PROS
Fun part is the dialogue, plenty of options to insult stuppid sidekics if the need arises but without resorting being a jackass yourself. Kudos to MCA for well written dialogue minus Amnesia.

-Luke, turn to the DARK SIDE. - No, I'll never turn to the DARK SIDE - Luke, it's your destiny. DARK SIDE is much stronger
See ? The vocabulary has improved from above over the 30 years, a fine job indeed MCA.
Now I wonder how many times they say Jedi in this game ? Instead you could subsitute with other words possibly. Oh wait, this is plusses section.

Even though the character creation is totally ripped off from D20 (I suspect this was the case in the first one as well) the force powers, skills and specialities make sense in SW setting. You're afterall Jedi, you feel the Force, you know how to fly and yell LIGHTNING BOLT LIGHTNING BOLT at your foes, you can wear special space gear to protect yourself, you must be proficient to use the lightsaber, roll for iniative.
But oh no, there's no iniative in Bioware games coughcough Obsidian' games.

I think I said more bad than good which was not my first intention (though maybe the second), so now's the time to put end to it and go back to playing. Especially if the game's just about to pick up and go for better or in this case go for darker side.
1_W4NN4_B3_J3D1KN1GH7_1111 L0L7Z R0XX 0N DARK FORCE C0MP3LZZ J0011111

 

[agris]

I wish I could get far enough to review it

Hey Codex, sorry to come here with my problem, but I don't know what else to do.

*Spoiler about Peragus ahead*







In the Dorms level, I've done _everything_ there is to do on that level. The computer next to Coorta's body that controls the Turbolift seems to be bugged for me. When I try to click on it, or 'use' it with the R key, nothing happens. No dialogue with the computer pops up, the game just freezes for a second and acts like nothing has happened. THIS SUCKS! I can't open the door w/o interfacing with the comp, and it seems from reading Obsidian's boards that no one else has this problem, and hence no solution. I was wondering if I could email one of you my save (850k/zipped) and see if the computer will respond for you? I would be indebted to anyone who would be willing to do this.

I've already started two new games and tried everything I can think of to work around the problem. There is probably a console command to get past this, via a flag to unlock the Turbolift, but I can't find it. I even looked at the Globals in KSE 3 but couldn't find a appropriate field. Thanks.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

My Guardian kills anything in 2-3 hits and has good skills.

Good for you. Meanwhile, my super light side sentinel kills whole packs of enemies in 2-3 hits. That would be the same sentinel that can persuade anyone, open any door or chest that's pickable, is aware of everything around him, can hack any computer with a minimum amount of spikes, and can repair most anything. Oh yeah, my Treat Injury is maxed out as well. I also get all the dialogue options for six skills.

You can kill one enemy at a time in 2-3 hits. I'm impressed.

Guardians are "weak as shit"? Can you explain?

See above.

I'm not arguing that what you are saying isn't good, I'm arguing that what I'm saying isn't bad either. Points for the insult though, very witty.

I'm saying the sentinel is by far the best class. Far, far superior to the consular and the guardian. I think I've explained why.

You may not have party members - false

You start with only three of them, not all of them. And during the first two areas, you're constantly separated from at least one of them at any given time.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Jedi Sentinel (and the Sith counterpart) is the best class in the game.

Jedi Consulars/Masters are more apt at dispersing large groups of people with Force Lightning or similar spells, but that's about all they do. You can't count on a Consular to deal with skill checks, and a Jedi Sentinel with tons of intelligence and wisdom will have access to those dialogue options, anyhow. I can't remember the number of times "Awareness" and "Persuasion" helped me out.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You can kill one enemy at a time in 2-3 hits. I'm impressed.

I wasn't aware that I was participating in a max damage competition. Killing an enemy in a few hits is more than satisfactory to me.

I'm saying the sentinel is by far the best class. Far, far superior to the consular and the guardian. I think I've explained why.

I have never disputed that. Our argument has started when you said that Guardian is a worthless class.

 

[Gromnir]

"STR in KotOR2 is pretty damned useless, BTW. Guns rely on DEX, your AC relies on DEX, and if you add Finesse: Melee or Finesse: Lightsaber, you got all that wrapped up in one attribute. "

well, no... strength ain't useless in kotor. fact of the matter is that for a male pc, dex is useless, and is only a little better for most female pcs.

SPOILERS AHEAD!

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if you play a male pc (light or dark,) you will get the handmaiden as a party member... and she will teach you the bestest ability in the game: battle precognition. this ability allows you to replace your dex modifier for ac with your wisdom modifier if your wisdom modifier is better. so, for any male character, you now has wisdom potentially modifying force points, force power dcs, your ac, and your will saves. so why would a male pc character, a character who will no doubt be using a lightsabre and not a gun in combat, even consider placing points in dex? raise dex beyond 10 for any male character is foolish.

for female pcs the choice gets tougher to be making. keep in mind that if you plays evil you may wanna go the armour route... in which case dex ain't so attractive. also, even with an ac of 50+, boss battle opponents is gonna hit you almost every single time anyway... is a bit frustrating actually. sooner you kill'em, the sooner they stop hitting you. spend all that effort to boost your ac and you find out that the only good defense is a good offense. is any functional difference 'tween an ac of 30 or 50 in game? not that we can tell. 30 is 'nuff for fodder, and 50 is insufficient for bosses. regardless, with force speed and good robes and the natural jedi defense progression, you will see your ac become pretty stout 'gainst all the fodder level opponents in game... even the lowly consular/jedi master has a pretty good ac late in game. is odd that bab is same for all jedi classes, but jedi defense bonus does vary. even so, with a light side female who has chosen force aura/armour and force speed powers (which both work correctly in the pc version of the game,) the extra dex bonus for a super high dex is almost a waste.

well, on to specific cases. a goody female guardian/weaponmaster is gonna end up with a +6 bonus to strength... get +3 for guardian and +3 for weaponmaster. master critical strike with a keen weapon has you making criticals 50% of the time. on a critical your opponent must make a save dc that is modified by your strength... is a bit like sap woulda' been in nwn... if it weren't found to be too powerful in play testing. sap were removed from nwn... but you get critical strike line o' feats in kotor2. also, with with shien form you increase damage multiplier by a factor of 1. instead o' doing x2 damage on a critical you does x3. critical strike is clearly the bestest line o' combat feats in game, and to take full advantage of those feats you want good strength.

maybe you wanna be a sentinel/watchman instead. not get that +6 to strength... makes placing additional points in str less attractive? you get a largely useless +6 bonus to constitution. blah. however, keep in mind that sneak attack for watchmen and assassins work on any opponent who cannot take advantage of their dex mod... surprised or stunned or flatfooted in any way. watchman master criticals and stuns opponent... and then gets sneak attack damage added on as well.

etc.

can go through every single class combo, but is no real need. is few cases in which giving a pc more than 12 in dex is a good idea. likewise, there is few cases where having a high strength is a bad idea.

*shrug*

most of vol's initial comments is not worth going into. he got wacked with the ati ugly stick... which obviously made him a little bitter to begin with. peragus can be a bit stale, and as vol were already angsty 'bout the potential of game he kinda jumped the gun a bit. kotor2 gots some good stuff and some bad stuff but we largely ignore vol's initial impressions.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Well, I couldn't resist it's temptations any longer and I installed the game. I've only made it through Peragus, but I am enjoying the game immensely. Then again, I liked the first one, so this one was pretty much a shoe-in. Haven't encountered any bugs so far. The only complaint I really do have is combat. It is waaaaaay too easy. Hopefully this is something they can fix with a patch. Think I'll start a new game and crank the difficulty to max.

Like alot of people have said on here already, if you like the first then you'll like the second.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

"The dialogue is intelligent, although it takes a perceptive mind to spot it. Also, when you meet Atris (the "another Jedi"), the PC can say the Sith thinks he/she's the last of the Jedi. Something that both PC and Atris thinks is bullshit since Atris regards herself as the last Jedi, and you're exiled and just doesn't want to anymore. Awww..."

Yeah, that must be it. The dialogue is sooooooooooooooooooo intelligent it's way above puny me to understand.

just keep repeating the following and you might believe it; but I sure non't: "I am the last jedi, I am the least Jedi, I am the least jedi!"

While I would like to say to you that you are a moron, I know it would change absolutely nothing in terms of your thinking capabilities. Would you care to actually answer my question instead of throwing these fantastic insults at me? I'm shy and feels selected when you throw your best material at me. Stop. Oh. Please. Answer what I wrote instead.

"While KOTOR1 was mostly about hope, what we get here in KOTOR2 is a galaxy where things have gone to hell. There are funny stuff, but most of the universe is in a rather depressed state. Another example I can think about is the whole take on the Jedi-religion."

What a retard. No, it wasn't. KOTOR1 was mostly dealing with your past, and either redeeeming or falling even further. KOTOR1 is *only* about hope if the player makes it about hope. Or could be about being "evil" or "dark side".

Thanks for the compliment. It'd blew my mind if you hadn't already with the previous insult. I was referring to the main plot, not whatever the player makes into the ending. The whole basic plot of KOTOR is that the jedi council is taking a chance with an unknown force sensitive (soon discovered as Revan, mighty jedi master!), hoping he will kick sith ass for them. That's the (shallow) plot and that's fricking (shallow) hope for you right there. But seeing as KOTOR2 doesn't follow any specific ending, I'll admit it's hard to come to conclusions regarding this one. But anyway, that's the plot right there. The dealing with your past part was nothing more than a "surprise" to turn around some events. You do very little about your past in KOTOR1. In fact, the exile is probably the one most into dealing with past times. You have played both games, haven't you?

Then again, I guess blowing up an entire planet with billions of people is considered Happy Happy Land to you. Not to mention, having a wookiee kill his best friend, and everything your character or npcs do in KOTOR1. Both games are "dark". Neitehr one is 'darker'.

I'll admit that those are strong events. However, BioWare failed in making them feel serious or meaningful. KOTOR1 felt mostly like a parody on Star Wars, but on hallucinogenic drugs and probably deep undercover in Happy Happy Go Go Land where sadness doesn't exist. And while the evils of KOTOR1 was mostly schoolyard bullying, KOTOR2 is playing in the upper division. The psychological one. Atmosphere/music/dialogue does wonders. BioWare should try it sometimes.

"No, that was just a comic relief."

Only funny in a 'dark side' kind of way.

Uh, yeah. Considering that was the only way of triggering it. Sure.

"Okay, forget about the kick ass-ability. They do mention you're über in leadership and stuff, but you're absolutely not some kind of a chosen one. Fellow jedis mostly dislikes you and wants you to answer to your crimes. In their regard, the exile is a moron that defied the council - not the great kick ass general that defeated the mandalorians together with Revan."

WTF? You on crack? The Jedis I met sure don't think that way. Not even Atris in her arrogance thinks your character is a 'moron'. She seems to be more dissapointed in your choices. And, the one you meet on Nar Shadaar actually REGRETS the Councils' decision to banish you. In fact, he calls you brave, and honourable for returning to them for jdugement and feels they were rash in passing judgement the way they did. You obviously didn't interact wiuth them. As for Raven, yeah, they consider him a genius - such a genius they decided to mind wipe him, and use him as a play toy. R00fles!

Most people seem to believe I'm on crack twentyfour hours per day.

First off; I didn't say anything about the jedis in KOTOR2 regarding Revan as a genius. Don't make things up, Volourn.

Second, I probably should've used a different word than "moron". I guess "traitor" fits better in the sentence if you can't handle words beyond your comprehension. Ironically enough.

Third and completely on topic; the Nar Shaddaa-jedi only regrets the council's action because he felt they should've acted sooner and that it perhaps was the council who made Revan (and the Exile) go to war. And I think every jedi calls you brave (in one way or another) for returning. Maybe I didn't interact with them, but I sure as hell did listen to them. Try it sometimes, Vollie. Besides; trying to grope a 3D-model character is just futile.

"We have different opinions about what makes a whiner, then."

A whiner is someone who whines. heck, my intial complaining about bugs could be classifed as whining. C'est la vie.

For the dramatic climax on the topic of "whining", be sure to read on!

"I think all characters you pick up are okay. Exception would be Horny (whatever his name is) who sounds exactly like a scary kindergarten teacher I had once (the horror) and "little, annoying beeping droid" who are contributing as much as zero to the party. Yeah, yeah: Horny "helps" build your lightsaber and Droid-on-wheels saves the day in the beginning, but hey; what's next?"

Atton offers me nothing. The only things even remotely enterianing/interesting about him is the playing of Pazaak in his head, and his constant WHINING about being captured REPEATEDLY. R00fles! Bao Dur seems pretty cool; but sooo one dimensional and quite frankly boring. And, I'm pissed off that he got to make my light sabre. What a rip!

Whining is more "Oh for crying out loud! Don't tell me I'm going to prison again. Fuck!". Atton is a comic relief.

And about Bao Dur: he doesn't construct your lightsaber. He only tells you what pieces you need. The PC already knows how to do it (says Kreia).

"*sighs*"

That's right. Better not to dispute the undisputable. The NPCS influence the PC; not the other waya round. only in rare cases can you *truly* get them to see things your way. *yawn*

YOu are a fanboy. Deal with it.

Oh my, I'm shocked. Your insights in my life as a fan boy is truly a fantastic thing, Volourn.

The PC influences the NPC's. You befriend them and learn more about their history. When influence is maxed you get to train them in the force, get items, stat bonuses, whatever. The PC influences the NPC's, who gives the PC their help in some way.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

You can kill one enemy at a time in 2-3 hits. I'm impressed.

I wasn't aware that I was participating in a max damage competition. Killing an enemy in a few hits is more than satisfactory to me.

You want to talk about what your guardian can do, I talked about what my sentinel can do. You can kill a single enemy in 2-3 hits. I can take out a room full of them in 2-3 attacks using Force Storm, a Dark Side power, on a Light Side Sentinel. In addition to that, I have five skills maxed out and gobs more Force Powers.

I'm saying the sentinel is by far the best class. Far, far superior to the consular and the guardian. I think I've explained why.

I have never disputed that. Our argument has started when you said that Guardian is a worthless class.

Compared to the Sentinel, they are. The game is heavily skills based, we've both agreed on that. Sentinel gets more skills than anyone. They also get lots of feats and lots of force powers.

You might get more hit points as a guardian, but that only matters when you face bosses. Even at the end, when I was in the bad guy base, I was clearing whole rooms in 2-3 attacks. If there were six people in that room, I had them cleared in three rounds. Your guardian would have had them cleared in 12-18 rounds. That's 10 to 15 more rounds of you getting beat on by Sith Elite Commandos, Sith Lords, Dark Jedi, etc. Your hit point advantage really isn't much of one considering that.

 

[Rhombus]

"bit to short, about 24 hours tops and I was done."

WTH? Do you even read anything? Usinga walk through? On speed? I'mat 23 hours, am level 19, and still got a few planet sleft. WOWSERS! Then again, I take my time. <>

No walkthrough no.. speed, nah.. rushing though, possible..
not doing all sidequests and talking to every npc yeah, probably..
enough to get me to lvl 27 or so..
just wanted to find out how the main story went.. is all..

I think it was a pretty good one, since it had me rushing like that to get it to play out...
was the same way with Vampire..