Preview KOTOR previewed at Just RPG

[Spazmo]

Tags: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

<a href="http://www.just-rpg.com">Just RPG</a> has <a href="http://www.just-rpg.com/default.asp?pid=589">previewed</a> <a href="http://www.bioware.com">BioWare</a>'s upcoming Star Wars RPG, <a href="http://www.lucasarts.com/products/swkotor/index.html">Knights of the Old Republic</a>.
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<blockquote>With Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic we wanted to create a compelling story with an immersive and exciting setting for the player. The design team created a storyline that will take you on an adventure, allow you to roam through different planets, encounter many different characters, and explore the Star Wars universe. The really fun part about this game is that you are a Jedi and your actions throughout the game ultimately determine the fate of the galaxy. As your choices move you towards the light or dark side, you can end the game as either the evil villain that rules the galaxy or the hero that saves the republic!</blockquote>
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Now, I dislike BioWare too, and I know the evidence points towards another mediocre BioWare RPG, but... it's <i>Star Wars</i>! That's got to count for something!
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Spotted at <a href="http://www.rpgdot.com">RPGDot</a>.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The really fun part about this game is that you are a Jedi and your actions throughout the game ultimately determine the fate of the galaxy

What's with Bioware and epic stories?

But I agree, it's a Star Wars RPG, so I will give it a shot for that reason alone. I wonder though does it have a "spit on a Jedi statue" option So when's the PC version due?

Edit: Never mind, I just noticed. October 14 then

 

[EEVIAC]

Now, I dislike BioWare too, and I know the evidence points towards another mediocre BioWare RPG, but... it's Star Wars! That's got to count for something!

I feel the same way - I'm wary of Bioware but I'd like a Star Wars RPG. Then I read this Gamespy preview of the X-Box game and I felt stupid for giving them the benefit of the doubt. Some of the quotes might have information that has been mentioned before but anyways:

That said, there are also parts of the game that seem influenced by Japanese RPGs. You must acquire five Star Maps before facing the main villain, which sounds an awful lot like collecting four crystals before facing the bad guy. There's the moment towards the end of the game where, after a moment where you begin to doubt yourself, all the NPCs tell you how much they believe in you and your quest.

I haven't played a console RPG for a while (I played Shadowrun on the MegaDrive a month ago), I'm not even sure whether they still make games with these horrible plot devices.

Even though I've been looking forward to KOTOR's release and have been following it for quite some time, I'm still very surprised at how good it is. I fully expected strong gameplay, voice acting, and story, but it's better than I thought it would be. I was also surprised at how good the interface is and how well the D&D aspects are implemented.

After reading this I was reminded of Slartibarfast (from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) talking to Arthur about his coastline design work on Africa for the new Earth 2.

"They've given me Africa and I'd doing it with fjords again, because I'm old fashioned enough to think they give a wonderful baroque feel to a coastline, and they say its not equatorial enough! What does it matter..."

 

[triCritical]

Well I asked you people back when NWN came out not to buy KotOR, and I thought I had promises. You know this game is going to suck, so why are you going to give more chances for Bioware to shoot their ego, and say how they are the bomb. Do the right thing and wait for another RPG, that can actually be called RPG. This is from one of the Troika guys experience with KotOR on the XBOX.

Originally posted by troika_hnguyen
heh, i think i just got a taste of that. i just tried out KoToR on Xbox, and in the very first dialogue, your companion says something to the effect (forgive me for paraphrasing from memory):

1) Hey you [my PC], we have to go rescue Basilia (sp)!

*) [me, last dialog choice] Nah.

2) Ok, but i think these attackers are trying to kidnap basilia!

*) [me, last dialog choice] Hmmm, don't think so, don't really care.

3) Don't be stupid! Let's go, now, to open the door, press [A]....

Nuff said, skip it!

 

[dipdipdip]

The really fun part about this game is that you are a Jedi and your actions throughout the game ultimately determine the fate of the galaxy

What's with Bioware and epic stories?

Tell me about it. I'd picked it up and created a "smuggler" (stealthy, diplomatic) who happens to somewhat ressemble Rick Moranis. I'm already being set up for romance, and because my character has had two "visions" over the course of eight hours of play, I'm being told by the counsel at a Jedi enclave that I'm just about the most talented Jedi Apprentice they've ever seen -- what takes your normal Apprentice years of training to achieve, Rick can achieve in a matter of days! The way it's all presented is pretty hard to swallow.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

How old is the protagonist? This is a console RPG, so I'm assuming your character is 12-15, right?

Love the epicness. Since it's Star Wars, saving an entire planet while going from n00b to demigod in 3 weeks isn't good enough, so you have to save the entire galaxy now. Or else ask for payment to rescue a few small children and then crush it under your heel.

 

[Section8]

Well, it sounds as though they've captured the essence of a JRPG fairly accurately. Provide a binary choice that alters only the response. Golden Sun is full of them.

"Do you think we should do this?"

"No"

"You dummy, of course we should!"

I'll probably give KOTOR a token hire, and who knows, I may be pleasantly surprised. I don't think it would be possible for Bioware to sink below my expectations of yet another less than lukewarm offering.

 

[dipdipdip]

How old is the protagonist? This is a console RPG, so I'm assuming your character is 12-15, right?

Love the epicness. Since it's Star Wars, saving an entire planet while going from n00b to demigod in 3 weeks isn't good enough, so you have to save the entire galaxy now. Or else ask for payment to rescue a few small children and then crush it under your heel.

Quite accurate. I'd say he/she is fairly older -- they claim that your character is older than your average Jedi-in-training, and that they normally don't consider those your age; however, since you're such a special case....

I don't think the game is all bad, but I do think you guys would have a field day with it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Do the right thing and wait for another RPG, that can actually be called RPG. This is from one of the Troika guys experience with KotOR on the XBOX.

...a terrible story told by troika_hnguyen...

Nuff said, skip it!

Thanks for the example, triCritical, it was a moment of weakness, a wishful thinking took over, but now I'm OK. If there is one thing that can instantly ruin a game for me it's a dialogue like that. I'll pass.

I'm being told by the counsel at a Jedi enclave that I'm just about the most talented Jedi Apprentice they've ever seen -- what takes your normal Apprentice years of training to achieve, Rick can achieve in a matter of days

How do they come up with this stuff?

 

[Volourn]

Tri's example is kinda funny. Last I checked, in both FO's basically the same thing happened. You are forced to do certain things to start off with. Interesting.. Not that that exuses such a forced path to start the game; but I like this attitude that it's ok in one game; but not another.

 

[Spazmo]

Tri's example is kinda funny. Last I checked, in both FO's basically the same thing happened. You are forced to do certain things to start off with. Interesting.. Not that that exuses such a forced path to start the game; but I like this attitude that it's ok in one game; but not another.

Example, please? Aside from the water chip and mutant quests given by the Overseer, I can't think of any quests that you couldn't refuse.

 

[Volourn]

Thanks for giving me my examples. I don't need to give anymore.

 

[triCritical]

Tri's example is kinda funny. Last I checked, in both FO's basically the same thing happened. You are forced to do certain things to start off with. Interesting.. Not that that exuses such a forced path to start the game; but I like this attitude that it's ok in one game; but not another.

Example, please? Aside from the water chip and mutant quests given by the Overseer, I can't think of any quests that you couldn't refuse.

Not to mention that they do not give you a bunch of false dialogue options that are worthless.

 

[Jed]

Honestly, guys, after Ph4ntum M3n4ce, does teh Star Wars still have any street cred left?

 

[Spazmo]

Thanks for giving me my examples. I don't need to give anymore.

That's the main quest. If you don't do it, there's no game. Hey, you could refuse it and just stop playing the game, you know.

And actually, in Fallout, if you don't want to do the main quests, that's okay. You can not bother with the Water Chip. Vault 13 will die. The game goes on (I think). You can also give the Master the location of the Vault and let it get dipped. It's up to you.

 

[Volourn]

No, if you don't do the water chip quest the game is over. I mean, seirously. If you are a serioulsy evil bad ass why should you care that the vault dies out due to lack of water? Answer: You shouldn't. Considering the type of game FO was; it shouldn't have had sucha quest to begin with. Anyways, I'm not going to sit here in "bash" FO since I enjoyed it very much.

I just find it funny that certin people bash BIo for committing crimes against humanity; but gloss over when the same mistakes happen in their favored developer.

 

[triCritical]

I think what Volourn fails to realize is how the story is told differs from game to game. In Fallout 1, the overseer tells you that you have drawn the short straw and that everyone in the vault will die if you do not find a new waterchip. This has a direct impact on you because everyone you have know your entire life will die. You still do not have to accomplish this quest, and you are not forced to do it right away. As for the mutants, well that is your final quest and no one really forces you to do it, you can always join forces with the unity.

I even think BG1 did a good job with the story. The quest was self-preservation. Either you find out who is trying to kill you and kill them, or they will kill you. At that point Bioware's moron's began to take over. Gayder brought us the anime classic BG2 in which you have to save imoen. Well what if I don't want to save Imoen? What if Imoen, was chopped to pieces in BG1? What if I was chaotic evil and hated Imoen's guts? Hell even when I save Imoen, I have the choice of leaving her? Why would I leave her after I just spent the first half of the game rescuing her? How stupid is that? How hard would it have been to just steal your soul from the beginning, and then you have motivation? There were a lot of things with Bioware's temporal plot devices in BG2. ToB from what I played was just down right silly. I didn't need to finish that game to know who that bad guy or should I say gal was.

I think everyone knows how bad NWN's plot devices our, no need to go into an explanation there.

 

[triCritical]

No, if you don't do the water chip quest the game is over. I mean, seirously. If you are a serioulsy evil bad ass why should you care that the vault dies out due to lack of water? Answer: You shouldn't. Considering the type of game FO was; it shouldn't have had sucha quest to begin with. Anyways, I'm not going to sit here in "bash" FO since I enjoyed it very much.

It may be over, but I can do every quest in the entire game except two. So essentially I can choose not to get the water chip and do 98% of the quest, I think there's a lot of choice there. How much can you do in KotOR if you do not rescue Basilla? How much can you do in NWN in you do not find the four thing in the four wonderfully placed sectors of the city?

 

[Volourn]

I haven't played KOTOR so I can't say. And, yes, I know about NWN's weaknesses. Duh. I've never denied that about that game.

Tri, you do realize that you didn't have to go after Imoen. They also had the reaosning that you'd want to go after the wizard who had captured you? Uh... You telling me that your character would ignore the fact that some fool made you his bitch? Hm...

As for NWN, yup, NWN did have poor plot devices for its main quest. No doubt about it. Still better than 90% of rpgs; that's for sure.

As for your direct impact on you; like I mentioned in my last post; what happens if your character doens't care about the Vault people; you still have to do the quest. Why aren't you allowed just do your own thing in roaming the wastes?

Still, this doens't change the fact Ia gre that FO is a better game than NWN; so trying to prove to me that it is si like preaching to the choir. I'm just pointing out that it's not eprfect, and some weaknesses that it shares with various BIO games. BIo is not unique in this design decision.

 

[triCritical]

Tri, you do realize that you didn't have to go after Imoen. They also had the reaosning that you'd want to go after the wizard who had captured you? Uh... You telling me that your character would ignore the fact that some fool made you his bitch? Hm...

Why? You blew up is layer, killed all his minions, looted all his ph4t l00t and now he's going to jail. Game over man!

As for NWN, yup, NWN did have poor plot devices for its main quest. No doubt about it. Still better than 90% of rpgs; that's for sure.

That is certainly debatable.

As for your direct impact on you; like I mentioned in my last post; what happens if your character doens't care about the Vault people; you still have to do the quest. Why aren't you allowed just do your own thing in roaming the wastes?

You are allowed to roam the waste. You can, in Fallout you can complete all but 3 quest without getting the water chips. Morrowind isn't even that non-linear. In Fallout 2 I am not sure, but I imagine you can do a whole hell of a lot before getting the geck. Both Fallout's impose a time limit, but that is the designers perogative.

 

[Volourn]

1Going to jail? You telling me that any half intelligent character are going to trust the Athkatla Mage Police to deal with him? After he laughed at them. Please, don't be so gullible. Not to mention the fact he interveres with your dreams so wouldn't you want to see what's up with that? Come on, now. Let's use some common sense here. It should be pretty obvious that until the PC deals with Irencius directly that he would continue to be a thorn on the PC's side. Oh well, to eacht heir own, I guess. If you wanna ignore a powerful psycho mage who wants to do experiments on you alone; so be it. Though; if I had made the game; I would just have Irenicus continue to harass the player with cohorts until he eventually tracks you down on his terms, and finsihes you off. That'd be your punishment of ignoring such a threat.

2. Of course it's debatable. It is obviously my opinion.

3. Umm.. Designer's perogative could be used for any game design for any game whether it's good or bad. And, once again, I'm not saying that FO is as bad as NWN. I'm saying it has things you are ;'forced' to take part in. That is true, and undebatable. It doens't matter if you can do 99% of the game before hand; you still have to do it; and no matter how many tiems you refuse to; you are forced into that path.

 

[Vault Dweller]

If you are a serioulsy evil bad ass why should you care that the vault dies out due to lack of water? Answer: You shouldn't.

No, the correct answer: you should, otherwise you die with them. Obviously the main character was comfortable living in the vault so far, so it's fitting that he's interested to restore his living conditions to the acceptable level. That's why he starts the water chip quest, but later on he's free to drop it if he finds the life in the wasteland so much better then living in a vault. Nobody ever forced you to do anything in Fallout.

As for Bg/BG2 discussion, I agree with triCritical, BG's plot made sense: you have to figure out who's after you, otherwise it's a matter of time till you're dead. BG2 is a different matter.

if I had made the game; I would just have Irenicus continue to harass the player with cohorts until he eventually tracks you down on his terms, and finsihes you off. That'd be your punishment of ignoring such a threat.

And that would have been so much better, because that would have given you an actual choice. I would prefer to have an option to ignore him, maybe in my child-of-Bhaal-arrogance, and deal with consequences later on.

 

[DrattedTin]

I don't see the point in holding up Fallout as the epitome of non-linearity myself. There's plenty of other games that can (rightly) take that crown. The big D's for example.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Why not? It's as non-linear as it gets: once you are out of the vault you are free to go anywhere and do anything. Of course, it's not as huge as some other non-linear games are, but the choices and different gameplay styles more then make up for that.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

hey

The more Volourn posts, the more he looks like an idiot.