Review KOTOR 2 gets a beating

[Volourn]

"My logic is that every single bit of dialogue in the first game is awful. Both games share almost exactly the same design mistakes but the difference is in the writing and the characters that are much better in the sequel."

"That's because you are stupid. While KOTOR2 had *some* good writing, KOTOR1's writing was uniformly good throughout. Unlike KOTOR2, it wans't uneven and illogical.


Thats only because Bioware used the very arbitrary say new things upon leveling up system. Until you got their quest, that is, at which point they wouldn't say anything new no matter what happens until the end of the game. And the game didn't even give you a choice to ignore them. If they were in your party, they would interupt your game to tell you more of their backstory. And this converstation rarely lead anywhere except to later in the game running into somebody from their past to trigger their quest. In KotOR2 you had conversations when you spoke to them, and you could continue talking to them as long as you wanted to, with out having them cut out and say they don't feel like talking anymore. Plus, conversations could give you real, in-game bonuses, like new powers or stat bonuses. Finally, the writing for Sith Lords was just better-- more interesting and subtle, like P:T."

This entire paragraph is just retarded. Anyone with dceent intelligence should be able to see it as the bullshit it is.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I'm not sure why the Star Map thing is brought up here as an example of originality in the first one. BioWare did the same thing in their earlier game, Neverwinter Nights, in all of the first three acts. Act 1 of NWN is find the four critter bits. Act 2 was find the four pieces of something. Act 3 was find the three doohickeys. At least KotOR2 made it something plausible like PEOPLE WHO ARE HIDING OUT. Even then, there are breaks in the "Find the hiding Jedi" stuff with various back and forth tasks like dealing with that civil war and such.

Finding the four pieces of the Star Map thing was completely ass given the KotOR story. If you're the big bad sithmasterblaster, I'd say that once you got the pieces of the Star Map, you'd be inclined to destroy the hologram dealies that gave you the info. Well, assuming you're not a complete dumbass who doesn't think far enough ahead to assume someone might be on your trail.

 

[war3rd]

I think he's spot on. He points out what the game could have been while acknowledging its faults and good points. Good review...

 

[DemonKing]

Thats only because Bioware used the very arbitrary say new things upon leveling up system. Until you got their quest, that is, at which point they wouldn't say anything new no matter what happens until the end of the game. And the game didn't even give you a choice to ignore them. If they were in your party, they would interupt your game to tell you more of their backstory. And this converstation rarely lead anywhere except to later in the game running into somebody from their past to trigger their quest.

Well, perhaps it was arbitary but at least there was something to look forward to, whereas in KOTOR 2 you could literally exhaust every dialog option. The damned pilot sat in the cockpit after the second planet I visited and never said another word to me the whole game, no matter how many times I tried to talk to him.

In KotOR2 you had conversations when you spoke to them, and you could continue talking to them as long as you wanted to, with out having them cut out and say they don't feel like talking anymore.

Nope - now you can initiate conversation with them and they simply tell you they don't want to talk any more! What an advancement. Only Kreia was fully developed in the manner you described.

Plus, conversations could give you real, in-game bonuses, like new powers or stat bonuses. Finally, the writing for Sith Lords was just better-- more interesting and subtle, like P:T.

I didn't find the writing better - the whole storyline seemed jumbled and confused to me, plus there were obviously loose-ends that got cut out at the last minute due to time constraints. Sure the original hinged on one big plot twist, but there was nothing in the sequel to compare - it was patently obvious given the overwhelming focus on Kreia that you and her would be facing off in the near future.

 

[Section8]

I honestly remember very little from the first game, which would indicate to me that it was pretty much uniformly mediocre. I remember the good and bad from most games, but KOTOR is a big blank spot. It's also possible that I played it in my sleep, for all the challenge it provided.

 

[Zomg]

I honestly remember very little from the first game, which would indicate to me that it was pretty much uniformly mediocre. I remember the good and bad from most games, but KOTOR is a big blank spot.

That was my reaction as well. Sometimes I feel compelled to reference it in a discussion, and I know that I played it physically, but there's just nothing there I can call up to talk about. At the time I thought it was a self-consciously "light RPG", and a not uncharming use of an abused license, but that's about it. In retrospect I think it would be a fine title if there were a healthy RPG market that could supply all points in the heavy to light RPG spectrum, but there isn't and so it looks a bit sparse standing alone.

 

[Hazelnut]

Reading's fun. You should try it.

I wasnt even talking about you.
(fag)

I think he's from the UK or something, so you just called him a cigarette...

That's rightt, but most people I know that have any knowledge of US culture will know what he means. It does remind me of a very amusing first trip to the US for a course where I was one of two non-US attendees. All nice people it seemed, and I hoped that gel enough for me to socialise with them in the evenings. I still remember the looks when I told everyone at the first break "Okay, I'm off out to have a fag."


Richard: Nice to see you here - I've enjoyed reading your reviews in PC Gamer (UK) for quite a while. On KOTOR - I decided it wasn't for me and have never tried either, but I seem to remember a gushing PC Gamer review of no. 2, or is my memory failing me. I guess you didn't write that one.

H.

 

[Richard]

Richard: Nice to see you here - I've enjoyed reading your reviews in PC Gamer (UK) for quite a while

I thank you ;-) And no, I didn't do KOTOR2.

 

[RiK]

(blink) Not quite sure why there's a link to one of my year old blog posts on RPGCodex, but I'll play along.

He likes the game so saying it sucks is a LIE.

Reading's fun. You should try it.

He sounds like a whiney faggot. A bucktoothed one at that.

Skateboarding off cliffs is fun too ;-)

The review is entertaining indeed.. But not very honest.
It just rips the game apart as being garbage which is not the case with KotoR.

The post is entirely honest. I don't pretend it's a comprehensive review - it's a just a personal Journal entry about a game I bought, having enjoyed both the previous game and the development team's past work, and was bitterly disappointed by. Had it been a full review, I'd have gone into much more detail on the bits I did enjoy, such as the plotting in Nar Shadaar, the excellent writing (although I do mention this), and all kinds of other things.There's a whole lot to like.

But the part that really stood out wasn't how good any of this stuff was, but how frustratingly good it all could have been. To quote that entry:

there’s barely a moment in the second half that you’re not left thinking of the obviously great RPG that exists in paper form over at Chez Obsidian. Unfortunately, what we’ve got is some hacked together version that stands up okay, but is barely a shadow of what it could, and frankly should have been.

That's what bugged me. KOTOR2 was a great game, its pants pulled down by all its well documented problems, and a fair few more (a particular favourite from my game was when Visas devoted herself to the Dark Side to one day defeat Darth Kabuki - a Sith Lord whose corpse was currently cooling off a couple of rooms away) until by the end, all the good it did was utterly undone. As much as I might like, say, Mira's plotline, or the main character's relationship with his mad witch mentor, it's hardly going to sit well in my head if I reach the end of the game thinking 'And Kreia did that...why?'

The opening levels prepared me for Star Wars: Torment, only to serve up £35 of bitter disappointment that wasn't merely a flawed game that needed more time (like Vampire), but an outright gob of spit in the eye from everyone who thought the game was ready to roll. In the case of a bad game, I wouldn't care, but KOTOR2 had the potential to be so damn good, and that burns. That's why I kept using phrases like 'a classic game' and 'genuinely excellent', even amidst all the negativity. Because it should have been, would have been, and damn well deserved to be.

But it wasn't.

(If you disagree with anything there, don't worry! Every argument was explained in great detail that would entirely have satisfied you, but I ran out of time before adding those bits to the post.There may be an unofficial patch in time that totally fixes them all!)

Thanks..

I agree with you, it could have been a classic. And it's a shame it didn't work out better than an "ok" game.