KOTC IS BRO APPROVED

[SkepticsClaw]

There is practically no difference between grinding in a MMORPG and playing this piece of shit.

All content is delivered without coherence, interesting hooks, background, lore, etc.

AVOID

For fun, I will now list some of the instances where this post lacks in quality.

There is practically no difference between grinding in a MMORPG and playing this piece of shit.

1) He is using this statement to refer to the mechanics of gameplay, but the comparison he makes is to 'an MMORPG', which is not a game mechanic. Thus the statement essentially contains no meaning.
2) If there was an MMORPG with turn-based combat and tactical depth of the level of Knights of the Chalice, then that MMORPG would, in fact, be a good game. The statement totally fails to convey any substantive aesthetic judgement.
3) The statement attempts to draw upon the social values of this board (MMOs are bad! Grinding is bad!) in order to reach its conclusion. This is fallacious.

All content is delivered without coherence, interesting hooks, background, lore, etc

This second statement clearly rests upon the assumption that 'coherence, interesting hooks, background, lore etc' are a requirement for quality in a game. This is manifestly not the case (one word will suffice: chess). As this assumption is false this statement is clearly a subjective value judgement, made by a particular individual who places high value on narrativistic elements over mechanical ones (colloquially: storyfag). The statement should have read: Storyfags avoid this game. This game is for people who are satisfied with gameplay as a means to its own end.

Thus the statement ends up criticising the game based on criteria it does not attempt to have; somewhat like criticising a roast chicken because it doesn't taste like french fries. Only a person lacking in intelligence would order a chicken instead of fries and then complain that it doesn't taste like potato.

Overall: F. The argument is poorly presented, unconvincing and reflects much more poorly upon the intellectual qualities and tastes of its author than it does upon the subject in question.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

The game has nice dungeon crawling story, which works fine as a background for some oldschool tactical combat. Encounter design is great, so are controls. This is a pure win. 1eyedking is just a butthurt faggot.

 

[1eyedking]

Haters gonna hate.

As always.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Said... the person who came into this thread solely to hate on the game? Are you even trying any more? Shoo.

Those sideways sprites do have nothing on Michaelangelo, though.

 

[SkepticsClaw]

I'm no graphics whore, but I believe I would pay INFINATE MONEES for a game with art by Michaelangelo. Possibly even more if Raphael got involved.

Every game ever has had shit art anyway. Might as well stick to ASCII, which is clearly of a higher level of beauty than the crude polygonal representations we put up with these days. Or abstract geometric shapes, which as we all know reflect more accurately the highest Forms that are to be found in the spiritual overworld of which this reality is a mere shadow

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Oh, spot of Codex lore, 1eyedking genuinely believes JRPGs are all shit because their art styles aren't as good as Michaelangelo's or something. Ask him.

 

[hoverdog]

Racofer, please 'shop Michaelangelo's David into DA2.

 

[SCO]

It's one of my favorite passtimes to compare Bernini's Ecstasy of Saint Teresa to DragonballZ.

Coincidence?

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS JUST TO UPDATE I AM ABOUT TWENTY HOURS IN AND CLOSE TO THE ENDN I THINK AND THE GGAMEBE IS STILL BRO APPROVED

I AM AS INTERNESTED IN THIS AS ANY ONTTHER RPG IN A WHILE IT IS WELL DONE

IT IS A SHAME THAT RETARTDS HERE CANNOT UNDERSTANT THE EXPRESSION GOOD FOR WHAT IT IS BECAUSE THIS GAME IS FUCKING GOOD FOR WHAT IT IS A MINIMAL STORY COMBAT FOCUSED RPG

IF YOU ARE EXPECTING STORY AND SHIT YOU MIGHT AS WELL NOT BOTHER BUT RPG GAMES LATELY HAVE SERIOUSLY SUFFERED IN COMBAT OPTIONS KOTC DID THIS ALL VERY WELL

I THINK MOST BROS HERE WHO PRETEND TO BE INTO RPGS BECAUSE IT GIVES THEM SOME SENSE OF SUPERIORITY OVER 12 YEAR OLDS PLAYING HALO SHOULD AT LEAST DOWNLOAD THIS TO TRY IT

BROS ONLY CRITICISM IS TAT YOU CAN WHIP THROUGH LOTS OF ENCOUNTERS WITH CRAFTING SCROLLS BEFORE BUT STILL TOUGHER THAN SHIT NOWADAYS AND ALSO AN IRONMAN MODE IS OFFERED

 

[SCO]

Not much of a spoiler but

Spoiler

Return to the keep at the end

 

[Roguey]

Yeah, crafting everything makes a lot of battles trivial. Begue's solution for kotc2 is to remove crafting entirely, which is a shame. Ideally I'd like crafting stations with stricter requirements and a better economy but that would be a lot to ask for considering all the other things he's adding/changing.

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS MY STRATEGY SEEMS KINDA CHEAP BUT IT WORKS I LET EVERYONE GO FOR THE MAGES AND CAST FIRE OR ICE SHIELD ON EACH WITH 10 TO 30 DAMAGE PER ATTACH OR SO MOTHERFUCKER DIE OUT QUICK AND THE FIGHTER CAN MOP UP A SMALLER ENEMY OR TWO A TURN AND THE CLERIC WILL CAST A FEW HEALS WHEN NEEDED

BROS IF A SPELL CASDTER STARTS TRYING TO DISPEL MY SHIT USUALLY CONCENTRATING THE FIREBAL WANDS ON HIM ALONG WITH FUCKING HIM UP WITH SILENCE WORKS

FIRE SHIELD AND ICE SHIELD ARE THE MOST USEFULL SPELLS IN THE GAME FOR ME BESIDES MAYBE A FIREBALL WAND OR HEALING

 

[BlackSun]

Yeah, crafting everything makes a lot of battles trivial. Begue's solution for kotc2 is to remove crafting entirely, which is a shame. Ideally I'd like crafting stations with stricter requirements and a better economy but that would be a lot to ask for considering all the other things he's adding/changing.

It looks like he is adding way too much stuff. From minimal to excessive.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Cleared on the cave complex to the south-west, leaving the Vrock and Babau for later. Now heading for the orc stockade. Game just gets better and better, looking forward to what seems to be an excellent endurance run.

Regarding crafting, are the general crafting feats other than craft wand and scribe scroll any use?

Should probably play The Witcher 2 at some point, I guess.

 

[Jasede]

I just bought this a few days ago myself.

My suggestion to you, Admiral, is not to take the crafting feats. They're just way too good. It's really hard NOT to outfit everyone with +5 weapons of devastation if you have it.

By the way, I actually am taking crafting, and the game is still difficult enough- until you find a restspot, at least.

Currently at the Ice Giant Fortress.

Already itching to replay the game with no crafting feats. (Though it'll be tough if I don't take Craft Wand on a cleric. I'll compensate by running double wizards.)

Also this game is now officially Jasede-approved.

 

[Jaesun]

I knew you would love this Jasede.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Fuck the orc stockade was awesome.

Found a door I couldn't open, though, in the room where you get ambushed by two salamanders and the, er, accountant. Did I miss the key somewhere?

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Fuck the orc stockade was awesome.

Found a door I couldn't open, though, in the room where you get ambushed by two salamanders and the, er, accountant. Did I miss the key somewhere?

Dunno, I think you've found a scroll somewhen before, you show it to the accountant and trick him into giving you the money, he say yes go there for your salary but then you're ambushed by some salamanders and humans instead of getting gold. Don't remember a locked door there.

 

[Jasede]

I just went back to check. In my game, that door is open. I believe I opened it with the a key dropped by the Alchemist + Fighter fight or by the big boss slaver lady fight. Maybe you missed it in a pile of inventory?

I'm in the Fire Pits now. The Frost Giant final fight was cake. (After a reload- the first time it was brutal slaughter.)

The orc stockade was terrifying. I was out of supplies before we fought the dragon. And I stayed out of supplies until the bitter end, because we made a deal with the guy (so no campfire) and explored the entire downstairs before killing the boss-lady. Only reason we made it that far was a wand of Confusion we got from a vampire much earlier in the caves. That, and True Strike + dragon slaying arrows.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I found Dragon Slaying arrows to be pretty crap. Especially since later Dragons will have Fort saves that require a natural 1 to fail. How do you use true strike combined with arrows anyway? Mages can't use bows and true strike can't be cast on someone else iirc.

 

[Jasede]

But I was talking about the very first dragon you meet, who has a Fort save that isn't thaaat high. Plus, they give you three of these arrows.

And my lovely mage elf can use arrows and bows just fine. Maybe she got the proficiency for free because she's an elf, like in 3.0? Or maybe one of the later patches added the ability to use weapons you aren't proficient with with a penalty?

True-strike + something has always been a D&D staple.

 

[CappenVarra]

I found Dragon Slaying arrows to be pretty crap. Especially since later Dragons will have Fort saves that require a natural 1 to fail.

I think all slaying arrows work like this, and I would guess it's intentional.

To keep Jasede and Admiral jimbob's playthroughs as unspoiled as possible...

Spoiler

They allow you to skip some tougher enemies in the first half of the game; however, the further you get, the less useful they are due to better enemy saves (and constant arrow insta-death DC).

This seems reasonable, since otherwise you could just craft more or less infinite arrows of slaying (180 Exp and 2250 gold is no cost at all after level 11, when they become available) and breeze through the game. Then again, most crafting has that easy mode effect...

But all things considered, archery does seem to be significantly weaker than melee (not to even mention magic). Having a dedicated archer which keeps shooting slaying arrows and hoping the enemy fails their save is a waste of actions in a lot of the battles, compared to what other characters could achieve in the same number of rounds.

Archery works well when enemies use it against you in larger battles (since sleep / slaying arrows force you to expend counterspells, wake-up actions, or resurrections + having two archers combined with 6 melee guys and 3 casters is not as much waste as having 1 archer among your 4 characters). But since the player's goal isn't to expend enemy resources (like the enemy encounter goal is to expend PC resources), wearing them down with specialty arrows is mostly a waste of time.

 

[CappenVarra]

But I was talking about the very first dragon you meet, who has a Fort save that isn't thaaat high. Plus, they give you three of these arrows.

And using a slaying arrow found in the fountain against that very first dragon is suggested by that guard if you let him live, so yeah.

And my lovely mage elf can use arrows and bows just fine. Maybe she got the proficiency for free because she's an elf, like in 3.0? Or maybe one of the later patches added the ability to use weapons you aren't proficient with with a penalty?

I just checked, and half-elves don't get any bonus proficiencies. But all characters can use all weapons at a penalty, so that explains that

 

[Jasede]

That final (final) battle!

After (aside from some rough patches) breezing through the game thanks to crafting (but without abusing Scribe Scroll or Craft Wand) and finishing the "final dungeon", I have to do this last one thing.

And it's complete murder! If I had known it'd be like this I'd have given everyone 18 CON at the start instead of rolling with random rolls, and taken Great Fortitude on everyone. It's a complete reload-fest on a 2 Knight 1 Wizard 1 Cleric team. I can imagine it'd be tremendously easier if I had 2 clerics or 2 wizards, or Greater Spellfocus: Enchantment, but alas. Despite crafting the best gear possible it comes down to loads of luck:

Is my caster turned to stone before he can act? Reload.
Is my caster killed by human-slaying arrows before he can act? Reload.
Are we being dominated by Balors? Reload.
Did the Vrock cast that silly Dance spell? Reload.
Balors resisting Dominate? Reload.

.
.
.

Just a few more reloads...

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Is that the same Vrock that appears in the forbidden tomb? I've been leaving him there until I'm strong enough to take him out, mainly through stubborn pride after chancing him after every lengthy dungeon crawl to see if I'm strong enough to deal with him yet and getting my ass handed to me.