MetalCraze
Arcane
Sounds like EA unlocked yet another achievement.Exactly. Kingdom of Amalur excels at one thing - it makes you appreciate Bethesda games more by showing that design can be infinitely worse.
Sounds like EA unlocked yet another achievement.Exactly. Kingdom of Amalur excels at one thing - it makes you appreciate Bethesda games more by showing that design can be infinitely worse.
What about it, mechanically, is so broken? I'm curious. I mean, I object to certain aspects of it - the focus on loot is way too heavy, everything about the game design kind of just feeds back into the combat and loot, the world design gives you little incentive to return to previous locations - but for what it sets out to do the game works well enough.It's not about whether or not the game can be called an RPG. It's an action RPG. It's about killing monsters and feeling good about it. The problem is that the design is fucking atrocious, which makes it very hard to feel good about killing monsters.
The combat is pretty quick and dynamic, controls well, requires you to stay on your toes and pay attention, it isn't afraid to challenge you but is always fair about that challenge (though this varies with skill level; some players find it easy, while I think the challenge is just right), success hinges both on your skill at playing (reading enemies, crowd control, etc.) as well as your character build and level.What part of Amalur's gameplay is fun? A serious question.
For what it's worth, stuff like story and world are subjective, just as visual style and music, or even genre are subjective. If you think the game sucks because it has a boring and generic premise or setting, that's fine by me... but that's not really something you can talk about in terms of design on any objective level. I'm more curious what, mechanically, Vault Dweller sees as being such a big problem, at least in a way that invalidates any of the game's strong points (if he even admits to any).
I didn't say broken. Poorly designed.What about it, mechanically, is so broken? I'm curious. I mean, I object to certain aspects of it - the focus on loot is way too heavy, everything about the game design kind of just feeds back into the combat and loot, the world design gives you little incentive to return to previous locations - but for what it sets out to do the game works well enough.It's not about whether or not the game can be called an RPG. It's an action RPG. It's about killing monsters and feeling good about it. The problem is that the design is fucking atrocious, which makes it very hard to feel good about killing monsters.
I agree that it's quick (thank God for small miracles) and dynamic, but that's about it.The combat is pretty quick and dynamic, controls well, requires you to stay on your toes and pay attention, it isn't afraid to challenge you but is always fair about that challenge (though this varies with skill level; some players find it easy, while I think the challenge is just right), success hinges both on your skill at playing (reading enemies, crowd control, etc.) as well as your character build and level.
I envy you.... at least initially, I found myself wanting to know more about the world and its people.
I don't see a single strong point and I can't think of anything good to say about the game at all. Well, some things aren't awful, but I'm not sure that's enough to call them strong points.I'm more curious what, mechanically, Vault Dweller sees as being such a big problem, at least in a way that invalidates any of the game's strong points (if he even admits to any).
For what it's worth, I've only played a little bit as a warrior. I played most of the game as a mage and had a lot of trouble with some sections because I didn't pick up the shield spell - maybe warriors are just easier to play, especially early on when enemies are weaker? I don't know how far you've played but things definitely do get a bit harder as the game goes (though not excessively so).I didn't say broken. Poorly designed.
I'm playing on Hard. Fighter. Long sword. It was challenging for about a level (when I was level 2). Then it's gotten uneventfully easy. Unlike, say, Diablo 2 where I can use different attacks, all I do is left click and sometimes I hold the LMB for that extra attack I unlocked. Since the game is easy, I don't use block. Since the game is easy, I'm not looking forward to level ups, new powers, new items, etc.
Any game where you can just left-click on shit until it dies is a poorly designed game. That's the gospel's truth, sea.
If you're choosing to mash left-click and ignore your special abilities and different attack types, that's your business, although I do think that the game could do a better job of making you use them, especially on the hard difficulty. For what it's worth, the developers are looking at patching in a tougher difficulty level based on the feedback they've got. My bet is they balanced the game for casual players, and didn't scale up enough.They've tried to make it contextual (same button, different attacks based on how you play - charge, dodge, block, but they've failed because in the end you just left-click through everything, occasionally dodging and hitting R. In comparison, D2 is a lot more engaging and offers a lot more builds/things to do in combat. Even God of War offers a lot more, so unless I'm really playing it wrong, I don't really see why people praise combat that much. You click on things and they die. Yay?
The game ditches stats because it's practical and efficient. +Strength = +Physical Damage, +Dexterity = +Critical Chance. I don't see a point in keeping attributes if they're all just going to filter into the combat anyway. Keeping useless or redundant attributes wouldn't have really helped the game at all, in my opinion, as it just adds a layer of false complexityThe loot distribution - an important aspect of action RPGs - is shit too. It's everywhere and it's mostly useless, because there is no stats and skills. You can do only so much with "moar damage", especially in a piss-easy game.
Why do quest markers = bad story? I think the story is definitely alright for what it is, and frankly, a step above most other mainstream RPGs. I'd take this over some HURR DURR REAPERS stuff any day.- It wants to tell an engaging story, but it's written for 12 year olds; it's basically a single player MMO where characters where exclamation and question marks over their heads.
Not me, though as far as lore and stuff goes he isn't so bad in my opinion. I actually don't think the game's themes and story are generic so much as the implementation is - cartoony World of Warcraft graphics and some rather bland voice acting really make the game feel a lot less interesting and alien than it could.- It wants to tell an engaging story but it's generic as fuck. Well, how many people here would consider Salvatore a good writer?
This goes back into world design etc. I don't mind this in a focused game like Fable or Zelda, but Amalur started with the "open world! must have open world!" tenet and didn't really change its design to accommodate it.- it wants to be an open world game but it's a corridor game; you can jump only in designated places, for fuck's sakes. If you run up a small hill, you can't just jump down because you'll hit an invisible wall.
Again, I don't agree 100% here, but I respect that complaint.- It's an action game but it's easy as fuck.
This is where I kind of have to go popamole and say that not everyone plays games for a challenge, or for an amazing story. For a lot of people, romping around in a big fantasy world, finding loot, and watching their character grow over time is fun. Despite what we all think, you can't just throw Fallout or Planescape at any random gamer and expect them to enjoy it - they'd say they're boring, or confusing, or directionless, and you know what? They'd be right, because their paradigm for understanding games is different from yours or mine.So, why should anyone play it? To experience a poorly designed, poorly written, poorly put together world? To enjoy a "quick and dynamic" but (in your own words) gets "tedious and repetitive" fast?
Wow you are unbelievably retarded.sea said:In fact, mechanically I think Amalur is one of the best-designed RPGs in years...
A few things do it for me:Fuck you. Both of you. Can any of you just put down some points in a single post as to what makes a well designed combat? Your points are so spread around that you are arguing around circles.
I've got to agree with a lot of your points, although I'm not sure the core design is bad as it is just undone by the low difficulty. There are a lot of really good ideas in the game and I think they are actually well executed - I disagree about non-combat skills for example (try dispelling a very hard ward at level 1, loot remains relevant as crafting fuel, money becomes worthless but there are a few sinks for it at least), and stuff like Reckoning Mode is actually smart because it's effectively a "get out of jail free" card for the player, something I think every game should have, plus it actually is not god mode against the game's tougher enemies and bosses, who can withstand it (though it should have had a much bigger time delay).After putting some more hours into the game I have to admit that it does suck - though in a really sad way. I wouldn't go full Roshambo on the title as VD did.
In fact, mechanically I think Amalur is one of the best-designed RPGs in years...
Can't comment. Maybe it's harder, maybe the elemental damage works differently, maybe the ranged aspect adds a layer of difficulty. I've only tried a fighter and that's what my impressions are based on.For what it's worth, I've only played a little bit as a warrior. I played most of the game as a mage and had a lot of trouble with some sections...
It's not. It's poor design. A well designed game gives you reasons to use different abilities by making it almost impossible to progress without them. In KoA I can mow through enemies with a left-click and a basic attack. Why should I use different abilities? To break boredom?If you're choosing to mash left-click and ignore your special abilities and different attack types, that's your business...
Well... the way the game is designed, I agree, but that's my point - the design is shit. You don't have to have stats to have an enjoyable action game, but you do need more than 2 stats if you want to have a decent skill tree and item system. A to-hit chance would have gone a long way making the game harder.The game ditches stats because it's practical and efficient. +Strength = +Physical Damage, +Dexterity = +Critical Chance. I don't see a point in keeping attributes if they're all just going to filter into the combat anyway. Keeping useless or redundant attributes wouldn't have really helped the game at all, in my opinion, as it just adds a layer of false complexity.
Maybe for a mage. I dish out physical damage and so far nothing managed to stand in my way. Granted, maybe the game gets better later on, but I'm level 12 and I can't play it anymore. It's really bad (for me).Regarding other item properties, later on enemies have resistances and weaknesses to elemental damage types, and stuff like life leech and mana regeneration come in very handy, so don't tell me that stuff isn't useful.
It explains the bad design but doesn't excuse it.I also think the sheer quantity of loot was put in primarily to accommodate the crafting and the economy, which depend upon having lots of junk to break down and sell. If you play as a completionist, though, you'll find loot basically everywhere, so once again I have to imagine it was balanced more for casual players who aren't going to explore everything. The find chest -> get loot feedback loop is also a really easy way of creating gameplay, and I think they just went overboard with it in trying to justify their large levels.
I did, as I like your articles. I agree with pretty much everything you said there, but the conclusion puzzled me. Here is the overview for those who didn't read it:I wrote an article pertaining to the world design and loot system recently; you can check it out here - http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EricSchwarz/20120208/9382/A_World_Without_Reckoning.php
Well, call me old-fashioned but I can't take a character with a giant exclamation mark over his head seriously.Why do quest markers = bad story? I think the story is definitely alright for what it is, and frankly, a step above most other mainstream RPGs. I'd take this over some HURR DURR REAPERS stuff any day.
Could be. I actually liked the conversation with the fateweaver guy, but it quickly drowned in a sea of generic MMO-like conversations aimed at sending you somewhere quickly rather than having a conversation.Not me, though as far as lore and stuff goes he isn't so bad in my opinion. I actually don't think the game's themes and story are generic so much as the implementation is - cartoony World of Warcraft graphics and some rather bland voice acting really make the game feel a lot less interesting and alien than it could.
:blink:This is where I kind of have to go popamole and say that not everyone plays games for a challenge, or for an amazing story. For a lot of people, romping around in a big fantasy world, finding loot, and watching their character grow over time is fun.
Of course, they would be right, but this isn't about KoA not being as good as Fallout. It's about it being a bad action game and a bad sandbox game.Despite what we all think, you can't just throw Fallout or Planescape at any random gamer and expect them to enjoy it - they'd say they're boring, or confusing, or directionless, and you know what? They'd be right, because their paradigm for understanding games is different from yours or mine.
Likewise, my good sir.Thanks for taking the time to make a detailed reply, by the way!
Well...After putting some more hours into the game I have to admit that it does suck - though in a really sad way. I wouldn't go full Roshambo on the title as VD did.
That's pretty bad, no? Like, rage-inducing bad?- A really fun - not really deep but fun - combat system. Rendered null because of the lack of challenge.
- A fun character development system - you get points you spend in one of the three talent trees; spending points on a tree unlocks "destinies" or character classes that grant bonuses that suit your playstyle. Again, rendered null because of the lack of challenge and because of poor design. By spending a couple of points on a single skill early in the game you can one-shot everything (shadow flare). If you max your weapon masteries early you always outdamage your enemies unless you fall behind on the loot curve which is impossible unless you're an idiot or are deliberately gimping yourself- why not introduce a level cap on talent levels?
- A skill system implemented. Rendered null because the skills are either effectively useless or make the game even more piss easy; the lack of balance is incredible. Lockpicking, dispelling and alchemy are useless. The worst culprits are Smithing and Detect Hidden - first one allows you to craft weapons that are infinitely better than whatever you can find, making the loot game useless while Detect Hidden makes you find huge amounts of stuff on every step, breaking the economy and the loot game too. No idea why would they implement persuasion as 99% of your persuasion options are "GIEV GOLD PLS" and you have tons of gold anyway.
- An ambition to make a mobslasher/story hybrid - unfortunately even the best story CAN'T FUCKING WORK when ... the whole game revolves around killing hundreds of mobs that don't make any fucking sense.
I won't judge the story on its own as it's completely drowned in tons of filler content. How many players follow the plot when what they did for ten previous hours was dicking around "clearing zones"? As VD said - there's a reason why games like this usually have an extremely simplistic plot that's only meant to provide an excuse for changing locales. A "hey, now you're going to a fucking Egyptian-themed desert so that you can kill Egyptian-themed monsters" screen caption could easily substitute Deckard Cain. So whatever story there is I really couldn't be arsed to care about it, with the notable exception of faction questlines which managed to catch my interest occasionally.
- A "reckoning mode" (also known as "press X to win") which has an interesting story background that the devs fail to use and which should be fun but is broken as hell because someone felt that introducing a legal and easily available god mode in an action game is a good idea.
I never finished KOA; while the game was fun in the beginning it quickly grew boring to the point that it just left a bad taste in my mouth.