KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Dan Vavra's medieval chad simulator

[CaffeineConquistador]

I thought the bigger towns at least would become larger, merge, turn into a city or just disappear etc. in that amount of time.

Sasau is the real MVP. It grew from the game version (red) into this (blue) and became the most significant town in the area.

Skalitz and Rattay grew in size too but diminished in significance.
Other villages stayed practically the same (Samopesh, Uzhits, Talmberg, Merhojed)

How did you guys derive the plans for the in-game locations, then? Did you have access to original city plans or historical records?

 

[Lyric Suite]

They had become glorified bankers and debt collectors by then. Probably why everyone else went along with it. Wouldn't play out like some kind of fantasy crusading order if they were still around in Bohemia by the 15th century.

Let's not even get into the Teutonic Order.

Hussites actually fought against the Teutonic Order, albeit not within Bohemia.

Obviously, since they were filthy heretics.

 

[FreshCorpse]

This guy needs to work for Warhorse.

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/lVOzEk
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/3oaErA

Are...are we going to see some Templar action...? I might be off here, but getting that vibe, and a chubby.

Templars weren't around anymore by 1403. Thanks to some faggot French king who forced the hand of the Pope to disband the order just because he owned money to them which he didn't want to pay.

Back when sovereign nations could simply disband their creditors. Those were the days.

 

[thesecret1]

Obviously, since they were filthy heretics.

Only until they bitchslapped the Church so hard that it officially recognized them

 

[Smejki]

I thought the bigger towns at least would become larger, merge, turn into a city or just disappear etc. in that amount of time.

Sasau is the real MVP. It grew from the game version (red) into this (blue) and became the most significant town in the area.

Spoiler

Skalitz and Rattay grew in size too but diminished in significance.
Other villages stayed practically the same (Samopesh, Uzhits, Talmberg, Merhojed)

How did you guys derive the plans for the in-game locations, then? Did you have access to original city plans or historical records?

It's a conjecture based on data from (a) first accurate and detailed maps from 1700s (b) consultations with historians/archeologists, and (c) backtracking from latest known state following known patterns of urban development, all of which which was then adjusted to the game's needs where required for styllistic or gameplay reasons. i.e. layout and size of the settlements match the historical reality nearly 100%, sizes, types, and functions of individual houses not so much.
E.g.:
* Large pub between monastery and the Sasau town? Made up. Monastery's "industrial" estates ante portas (sawmill, brickyard, gardens etc.)? Pretty accurate.
* Skalitz castle size? Accurate. Layout? Unknown. Talmberk, Pirkstein, and monastery? Very accurate.
* Neuhof stables? Real. Their layout? Probably not. Merhojed stables? Made up.
* Houses in Rattay and Skalitz? Too big and expensive for a town of this size, type, and importance. They'd be more likely found in bigger places with stronger merchant population along major trade routes. The Rattay rathaus (city hall)? Accurate, irc.
etc.

The major locations (Sasau, Skalitz and Rattay) used to be significant towns so luckily there are some detailed archeological studies which helped a great deal.

ye olde maps
Sasau

Spoiler

Skalitz

Spoiler

Rattay

Spoiler

 

[Zanzoken]

Just picked this up last week and haven't been able to put it down since. Regardless of its flaws, it's the best immersive sim I've played in quite some time. You can tell the game was made by people who wanted to do something cool and different, instead of just a derivative Skyrim clone.

Also, I have to say that one of my favorite things is the armor system. I love the fact that there are so many layers and gear slots to choose from. Just last night I was able to finish assembling a full suit of plate, which is a really satisfying accomplishment.

Spoiler

The only thing that throws it off a little bit for me is, how you can just equip and unequip your armor at will. That's fine for clothing, but when it comes to chainmail and plate, you really can't put it all on without help from another person. So it would be cool if putting on / taking off armor was limited somehow.

Now I know realism takes a backseat to fun, but I think this could be good for gameplay too. The game has systems for Conspicuousness and Noise -- presumably to create a trade-off between heavy armor and stealth -- but if you can just instantly take the armor off every time you need to do something sneaky then it defeats the purpose. If you were limited to say, only being able to change armor at home, then it creates a strategic decision -- the player has to choose whether to tailor their equipment for a combat or stealth approach, and then live with the results.

 

[cvv]

Also, I have to say that one of my favorite things is the armor system. I love the fact that there are so many layers and gear slots to choose from.

Well then enjoy it till it lasts because I'm p. sure they're gonna scrap it for the sequel. Apparently it created more bugs and problems than it was worth.

If you were limited to say, only being able to change armor at home, then it creates a strategic decision

Yeah that could be cool. It could also become a chore, like all those realistic features that sound good at first sight. Who knows.

Maybe you could become a knight and get yourself a squire who'd always help you into the heavier armors.

 

[ArisatoSeldom]

My only problem with armor was "all-body" forcefield effect. But there are mods to reduce or remove this altogether. Also one can edit xml themself.

Overall, game is withholding it's difficulty to not traumatize common player, I think. Thanks to developers, their xml are easy to edit and navigate, so I could tinker game difficulty to suit my needs (enemy aggression, forcefield armor, and fix the perfect parry/strikes exchange at high levels).

but if you can just instantly take the armor off every time you need to do something sneaky then it defeats the purpose.

Funny thing. You can have prefect stealth with full plate with slim fit and padding perks. Just don't wear chainmail. Even without it you have quite big armor rating.
And when I needed stealth I just use monk's robe instead of scarf or jupon I wear.

you really can't put it all on without help from another person.

Actually you can. Well, it depends on the exact type of plate, but a lot of them can be put on by yourself, but it's time consuming. As for chainmail, put it on is a fast process, but taking it off... That's quite a comedy sight and noisy as hell, if it's shirt type chainmail (put on like t-shirt).
But yeah, I guess warhorse didn't want to alienate casual players with being unable to change armor outside of "safezones".

 

[Smejki]

The only thing that throws it off a little bit for me is, how you can just equip and unequip your armor at will. That's fine for clothing, but when it comes to chainmail and plate, you really can't put it all on without help from another person. So it would be cool if putting on / taking off armor was limited somehow.

This idea was on the table for quite some time

 

[CaffeineConquistador]

Just picked this up last week and haven't been able to put it down since. Regardless of its flaws, it's the best immersive sim I've played in quite some time. You can tell the game was made by people who wanted to do something cool and different, instead of just a derivative Skyrim clone.

Also, I have to say that one of my favorite things is the armor system. I love the fact that there are so many layers and gear slots to choose from. Just last night I was able to finish assembling a full suit of plate, which is a really satisfying accomplishment.

Spoiler

The only thing that throws it off a little bit for me is, how you can just equip and unequip your armor at will. That's fine for clothing, but when it comes to chainmail and plate, you really can't put it all on without help from another person. So it would be cool if putting on / taking off armor was limited somehow.

Now I know realism takes a backseat to fun, but I think this could be good for gameplay too. The game has systems for Conspicuousness and Noise -- presumably to create a trade-off between heavy armor and stealth -- but if you can just instantly take the armor off every time you need to do something sneaky then it defeats the purpose. If you were limited to say, only being able to change armor at home, then it creates a strategic decision -- the player has to choose whether to tailor their equipment for a combat or stealth approach, and then live with the results.

You have a decent build so far. Once that strength increases the fun weapons really come into play. I usually ditch leg armor for hose, though.

 

[CaffeineConquistador]

My only problem with armor was "all-body" forcefield effect. But there are mods to reduce or remove this altogether. Also one can edit xml themself.

What effect is this? I’ve been killed and maimed in every way possible, I think, and can’t think of what you’re talking about.

 

[Turbografx]

I really enjoyed it. It was very refreshing, and clearly made with passion. I liked the arming system. I liked that some quests could time out if you waited/did too much. I liked that combat was deadly and challenging (at first, and even later my knightly Henry could be overwhelmed by a peasant ambush). The world was beautiful and fairly immersive. Need to learn to read in order to read was an amazing idea, however it should have been a little more difficult to achieve. The drunk system was also very well done.

On the downside, there was very little meaningful C&C, and I felt the vaunted 'multiple approaches to quests' was pretty much hype, it only applied to a few quests and didn't have significant end effect. The ending was also extremely underwhelming (better be a sequel) and the DLC were pretty poor IMO (value for money wise at least, I was also particularly let down by what I could (or couldn't) do in From the Ashes). Performance was never great (still sometimes have texture loading issues and I have a decent PC) and it was also extremely buggy for many months.

That said, in my opinion KCD is a classic example of quality Euro-jank. Wonky but awesome underneath. Also, completely un-woke

 

[ArisatoSeldom]

What effect is this?

Quarter (or a half? Can't remember vanilla game) of armor rating of certain body part also affecting your other parts. For example in vanilla game if you wear full plate but no helm, you still get some defense for your head.
Maybe there's none of it in hardcore mode, but I've never played it (don't favor no UI, when there is no clear indication of you parameters in combat. And to see them you just spam menu anyway).

 

[CaffeineConquistador]

Could’ve slid by without the helm and thus no slit vision then. I know there’s bassinets and such, but looks weird in full plate.

 

[cvv]

On the downside, there was very little meaningful C&C, and I felt the vaunted 'multiple approaches to quests' was pretty much hype, it only applied to a few quests and didn't have significant end effect.

I for one felt KCD had some of the best C&C of all RPGs I've ever played since I started as a wee boy in 1995. After my 1st run I've read up on various quests and often was astonished how flexible this game is solution-wise. It's because KCD unlike, say, Witcher 3 is very systems heavy so you have plenty of choices how to handle quests - sneaking, killing, talking, charming, direct combat, poisoning food, stealing, buying...and that's just the start.

DLC were pretty poor IMO (value for money wise at least, I was also particularly let down by what I could (or couldn't) do in From the Ashes)

The DLC are poor value compared to Witcher 3 but completely normal compared to almost everything else. I was more than happy with what I got for my money, except maybe for Band of Bastards, which was my favourite side quest in the entire game and I wanted it to be at least as long as Woman's Lot.

it was also extremely buggy for many months.

That's a reputation KCD will never lose but I've been saying since the get go - KCD was not any more buggy than Witcher 3 on launch. If someone finds this outrageous than go do something very easy - check out Witcher 3's patch history.

In fact KCD bugginess was comparable to most big, complex open-world games that came out in the last decade. It wasn't an outlier. Considering that systems-wise it's way more complex than p. much anything else AND it's done with Cryengine which is not very suitable for big, complex open-world RPGs AND their Q&A was done by like 30 people....I'm actually impressed with the state the game launched in.

 

[Turbografx]

I for one felt KCD had some of the best C&C of all RPGs I've ever played since I started as a wee boy in 1995. After my 1st run I've read up on various quests and often was astonished how flexible this game is solution-wise. It's because KCD unlike, say, Witcher 3 is very systems heavy so you have plenty of choices how to handle quests - sneaking, killing, talking, charming, direct combat, poisoning food, stealing, buying...and that's just the start.

There were several flexible missions but they still relied heavily on scripting. For instance, I killed everyone in the bandit camp at Prybyslavitz before the battle but still had to fight them the next day, and as far as I can tell, at full strength. Also, no matter what your actions, I haven't had any playthroughs where my actions changed the arc or track of the story in any way.

The DLC are poor value compared to Witcher 3 but completely normal compared to almost everything else. I was more than happy with what I got for my money, except maybe for Band of Bastards, which was my favourite side quest in the entire game and I wanted it to be at least as long as Woman's Lot.

Maybe so. I will agree that Band of Bastards was probably the best in my book as well. The Hans Capon one was a serious letdown. I think I finished it in 2.5 hours.

 

[Infinitron]

Listen to beautiful songs from the Kingdom Come: Deliverance soundtrack performed live by Daniela Valtová Kosinová and Jan Valta, composer of the Kingdom Come: Deliverance soundtrack!

Hmmm, is that a new YouTube channel avatar?

 

[aweigh]

^great

 

[Zanzoken]

Finished it. Did not like the ending at all, from either a story or gameplay perspective.

Story issues:

Spoiler

I am really frustrated by how much of a bait-and-switch the main quest is.

By starting the game with the sacking of Skalitz, the game establishes Sigismund, Markvart von Aulitz, and the Cumans as the main bad guys. Honorable mention to Runt for kicking your ass and taking your father's sword after the fact.

But in reality, the game's main plot stems from the attack on Neuhof. Henry learns that Runt was behind it and defeats him at Pribyslavitz, only to learn that the game's real antagonist is Istvan -- someone we have no personal connection to, other than a brief introduction in the prologue. The game tries to drive home the point that "Istvan works for Sigismund" but instead he feels more like a side villain. The main bad guys Sigismund, Markvart, and the huge force of Cumans just disappear, never to be seen again.

And to make matters worse, despite all the efforts of Henry et.al. the game ends with Istvan getting away. So not only has Henry made no progress on his original goals -- taking revenge on Sigismund and Markvart, and recovering the sword -- but the good guys didn't really even win the localized conflict with Istvan. Our heroes look like incompetent goofs who were just a cunthair away from losing to a pudgy, effeminate, third-string villain.

Just really odd and dissatisfying story choices all the way round. I know they're setting this up to play out over the course of 2 or 3 games, so I didn't expect Henry to rescue the king and defeat Sigismund in one shot. But even if they are part of an overarching narrative, each game needs to have a story of its own that carries enough "oomph" to stand on its own merits. And this just didn't do it for me.

From a gameplay standpoint, the middle of the game was fine but they need to shorten the prologue and ending sequences. Railroading is okay in small doses, but it was way too pronounced there.

Regardless of gripes, I really enjoyed the game overall and am looking forward to the sequel.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Right, the climax of the game's plot should have occurred at the battle in Pribyslavitz, with Henry's defeat of Runt and his recovery of his father's sword, which would have book-ended the loss of the sword during the game's prologue and also connected with the personal thematic elements (shifting the revelation to Henry about his true father so that it occurs prior to this climactic battle). However, the predetermined narrative stretches not only Henry's character arc, but also this basic conflict, over three games' worth of material condensed awkwardly into two games, with the result that Henry defeats Runt only to learn that his sword is in another castle, after which the plot lurches around to eventually arrive at a second assault on a bandit camp, followed by a prolonged siege of a castle, only to finally arrive at a resolution that resolves nothing.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Let's not even get into the Teutonic Order.

We have enough Poles here to properly get into it.

 

[Zanzoken]

Right, the climax of the game's plot should have occurred at the battle in Pribyslavitz, with Henry's defeat of Runt and his recovery of his father's sword, which would have book-ended the loss of the sword during the game's prologue and also connected with the personal thematic elements (shifting the revelation to Henry about his true father so that it occurs prior to this climactic battle). However, the predetermined narrative stretches not only Henry's character arc, but also this basic conflict, over three games' worth of material condensed awkwardly into two games, with the result that Henry defeats Runt only to learn that his sword is in another castle, after which the plot lurches around to eventually arrive at a second assault on a bandit camp, followed by a prolonged siege of a castle, only to finally arrive at a resolution that resolves nothing.

I like this. I would take it one step farther and say that the climax should've been at Skalitz, to further bring things full circle. Here is a rough sketch of how I'd do it.

Spoiler

Prologue: Game starts as normal. Henry and his dad finish Radzig's sword, and are taking it to him at the castle when Skalitz is attacked by Sigismund, Markvart, and the Cumans. Istvan is shown with them too, to drive home his connection with Sigismund... also instead of being a doughy faggot, Istvan is a badass in plate armor like Markvart i.e. a worthy final boss. Dad takes the sword and says, Henry I'm going to get Mom, you run for it. Henry sees Dad valiantly fighting off the bad guys with the sword, but then he and Mom are cut down by Markvart, and Istvan takes the sword. Henry manages to escape.

Act 1: Instead of abandoning Skalitz -- there are silver mines there remember? that's why they attacked to begin with -- Sigismund turns it into his base of operations for the region. Istvan is assigned as commander, given a portion of the Cuman army, and tasked with conquering the rest of the fiefdom. Sigismund and Markvart leave, we'll see them in later games. Skalitz is crawling with Cumans, since it's now a military camp, but Henry stubbornly decides to try to sneak in and recover his father's sword. Henry nearly reaches Istvan but is caught and beaten up by Runt, who is leading a gang of bandits working for Istvan. Henry is nearly killed but is saved by Teresa and brought to Rattay.

Act 2: Radzig, Hanush, et.al. are trying to figure out wtf they are going to do. They don't have the manpower to retake Skalitz, and don't know where Istvan will attack next. Henry enters Radzig's service and eventually discovers that Istvan is planning a surprise attack on Talmberg Castle, which the good guys all come together and manage to defend. Henry faces Runt again and this time it's Henry who wins, but Istvan gets away.

Act 3: Henry and the good guys devise a plan to recapture Skalitz Castle and drive out the invaders for good. Big final battle, storm the castle, Henry has a boss fight with Istvan to regain the sword and retake his home. Good guys win, celebrate for now, but Henry still has his sights set on getting even with Markvart and Sigismund later on.

There are lots of different ways you could approach things, obviously. But the point is, if you know you're not going to resolve everything in one go, you have to make sure and give the player smaller payoffs -- regaining possession of the sword, etc -- so that they feel like they achieved something.

 

[Zanzoken]

Also, I am seriously disappointed at the lack of C&C that occurs from

Spoiler

banging out Sir Divish's wife

Kept waiting for the other shoe to drop on that one, but apparently it never does.

 

[cvv]

So listen, anyone managed to get the Merciful cheevo? (don't kill anyone except Runt)

Trying to do it nao, can't get through the Pribyslavitz fight. Gave it about 4 attempts but I always get the "too many of your soldiers died, GG" message as soon as I get into the bandit half of the camp. If I stay back and don't fight, I can't win it seems.

Btw during scouting I did destroy their arrows and I poisoned their food but to no avail. I'm kindda scratching my head here.

 

[udm]

Was it the part where your troops had to run uphill?