Just picked up KOTOR 1&2; recommendations?

[Eirinjas]

whereas the combat in KotOR just feels like pointless filler most of the time since it poses no danger or sense of achievement.

It's been a really long time since I played KOTOR 1, but I remember the last leg of the game having some tough encounters. Maybe I play pants-on-head-retarded, but I remember feeling a sense of achievement at finally getting to Malak and handing him his own ass. In comparison, the Nihilus fight was a real letdown in KOTOR 2, and KOTOR 2's ending was meh compared to some of the excellent scenarios leading up to it.

 

[Ninjerk]

You can queue up the spirally force wave and clear the enemy waves IIRC. Also, the Malak fight was a single gimmick fit for a tutorial.

 

[Strayed]

The Malak fights were okay; my biggest issue was that in your first encounter the game acts like you're getting your ass kicked, so when you mop the floor with him the next scenes have no bearing on what happened during the fight.

 

[Prime Junta]

It's been a really long time since I played KOTOR 1, but I remember the last leg of the game having some tough encounters. Maybe I play pants-on-head-retarded, but I remember feeling a sense of achievement at finally getting to Malak and handing him his own ass. In comparison, the Nihilus fight was a real letdown in KOTOR 2, and KOTOR 2's ending was meh compared to some of the excellent scenarios leading up to it.

The Malak fight is stupid. It's really easy with some builds, really hard with others because he's as good as immune to most Force powers. Good luck beating him with a Force-power based Consular who sleepwalked through the rest of the game.

 

[Average Manatee]

It's been a really long time since I played KOTOR 1, but I remember the last leg of the game having some tough encounters. Maybe I play pants-on-head-retarded, but I remember feeling a sense of achievement at finally getting to Malak and handing him his own ass. In comparison, the Nihilus fight was a real letdown in KOTOR 2, and KOTOR 2's ending was meh compared to some of the excellent scenarios leading up to it.

The Malak fight is stupid. It's really easy with some builds, really hard with others because he's as good as immune to most Force powers. Good luck beating him with a Force-power based Consular who sleepwalked through the rest of the game.

Even classes that are slightly worse at using a lightsaber should be able to destroy him. Maybe if you 100% powergamed force powers with min str + never got the obviously hugely powerful buff powers he'd be hard, but I think you could overpower him with force then (can't remember if he's actually immune, I though he just had good saves?). Plus the force drain thing works on the guys in stasis so if you have that you're golden.

 

[Zarniwoop]

This thread makes me want to play KOTOR again, maybe I should try the Android port.

I just felt a disturbance in the Force. Like a million Skyways were crying out in agony seven times, and then were suddenly silenced.

 

[Lord Carlos Wafflebum]

Manaan was ok, despite me being arrested at least twice. That got annoying, and when I do my dark side playthrough there will be many dead fish people.

The thing that annoys me about the wookies is that ALL of them so far are incredibly emo. Waaaaa this one dude is selling us to the slavers. Clearly all wookies cannot stand up to literally one guy, so better just sit around and cry about it like a bunch of bitches.

 

[Strayed]

Manaan was ok, despite me being arrested at least twice. That got annoying, and when I do my dark side playthrough there will be many dead fish people.

The thing that annoys me about the wookies is that ALL of them so far are incredibly emo. Waaaaa this one dude is selling us to the slavers. Clearly all wookies cannot stand up to literally one guy, so better just sit around and cry about it like a bunch of bitches.

Like Bioware would let you do that

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

KOTOR 2 tries to make you feel like you're playing inside "Also Sprach Zarathustra" while trying to defeat some clown who looks like a cross between the Phantom of the Opera and a transvestite nun.

This was genuinely funny

 

[Lord Carlos Wafflebum]

Manaan was ok, despite me being arrested at least twice. That got annoying, and when I do my dark side playthrough there will be many dead fish people.

The thing that annoys me about the wookies is that ALL of them so far are incredibly emo. Waaaaa this one dude is selling us to the slavers. Clearly all wookies cannot stand up to literally one guy, so better just sit around and cry about it like a bunch of bitches.

Like Bioware would let you do that

I hope you're kidding. The only reason I was able to get through that planet the first time was the promise of murdering those fish assholes in my next playthrough. SOMEONE NEEDS TO DIE.

Edit: Electrocuting (or whatever) sharks made up for most of the long-winded fish douches tho

 

[Old One]

KOTOR 2 does not have good writing. It has a large volume of writing.

A significant part of writing being good is some sort of enjoyable or compelling story-journey with an interesting or contentment-inspiring resolution. KOTOR 2 is nothing but ominous foreboding with no follow through. Despite it's pretentiousness it ends up being a long slog through the entire universe's supply of trash mob Jedi Masters to an anticlimactic boss encounter - and that's after several previous disappointing boss encounters.

The general level of the dialogue in KOTOR 2 is better than in KOTOR 1, but on the other hand KOTOR 1 had exactly one interesting character (HK-47), which is the same number as KOTOR 2 (Goto). Any advantage KOTOR 2 has is lost because they took the best character from the first game and made him farcical and thus utterly annoying.

 

[Eirinjas]

KOTOR 2 does not have good writing. It has a large volume of writing.

A significant part of writing being good is some sort of enjoyable or compelling story-journey with an interesting or contentment-inspiring resolution. KOTOR 2 is nothing but ominous foreboding with no follow through.

I was content with the ending. I'm sick of games where the fate of the world or the universe is at stake and the climax has to be something exploding. It's become cliché to the point of nausea-inducement. I rather enjoyed the fact that it was a more personal story and the thing ultimately at stake was the fate of the Force.

 

[Strayed]

Manaan was ok, despite me being arrested at least twice. That got annoying, and when I do my dark side playthrough there will be many dead fish people.

The thing that annoys me about the wookies is that ALL of them so far are incredibly emo. Waaaaa this one dude is selling us to the slavers. Clearly all wookies cannot stand up to literally one guy, so better just sit around and cry about it like a bunch of bitches.

Like Bioware would let you do that

I hope you're kidding. The only reason I was able to get through that planet the first time was the promise of murdering those fish assholes in my next playthrough. SOMEONE NEEDS TO DIE.

Edit: Electrocuting (or whatever) sharks made up for most of the long-winded fish douches tho

I went dark side my first playthrough, and any act of defiance whatsoever made towards the almighty neutral fish people results in motherfucking Darth Revan, Dark Lord of the Sith, riding the lightning.

 

[Endemic]

KOTOR 2 does not have good writing. It has a large volume of writing.

A significant part of writing being good is some sort of enjoyable or compelling story-journey with an interesting or contentment-inspiring resolution. KOTOR 2 is nothing but ominous foreboding with no follow through. Despite it's pretentiousness it ends up being a long slog through the entire universe's supply of trash mob Jedi Masters to an anticlimactic boss encounter - and that's after several previous disappointing boss encounters.

The general level of the dialogue in KOTOR 2 is better than in KOTOR 1, but on the other hand KOTOR 1 had exactly one interesting character (HK-47), which is the same number as KOTOR 2 (Goto). Any advantage KOTOR 2 has is lost because they took the best character from the first game and made him farcical and thus utterly annoying.

K2's plot was more like Planescape Torment: Star Wars edition. It's about characters and introspection, the nature of a man, how his past choices change him - one of the quotes I posted earlier in this thread makes that clear. The dark side path is a tad flawed plot-wise, because you miss out on several key scenes (such as the Jedi Enclave conversation).

Have you tried playing the Dantooine part of K2 with and without a lightsaber visible on the Exile? Notice the difference in reaction from the settlers, and whether you can do certain sidequests? Yeah, Goto's a cool character because of the Asimov connection and the Exchange bounty subplot, but you seem to have glossed over a lot of other details. HK-47 was light comic relief in K1, how exactly was he "ruined" in K2? He was essentially a stand-in for Revan and helped retcon pre-K1 Revan into a more 3-dimensional character. Some of this conversation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nus becomes eerily prescient when you consider K2 was made before Revenge of the Sith...

 

[Prime Junta]

Even classes that are slightly worse at using a lightsaber should be able to destroy him. Maybe if you 100% powergamed force powers with min str + never got the obviously hugely powerful buff powers he'd be hard, but I think you could overpower him with force then (can't remember if he's actually immune, I though he just had good saves?). Plus the force drain thing works on the guys in stasis so if you have that you're golden.

I don't think he's completely immune, he just has ridiculous saves and the Force Immunity power. The upshot is that he's pretty weak against lightsabers, but extremely tough against Force powers. A minmaxed Guardian will whack him easy-peasy, a minmaxed Consular -- especially light-side Consular -- will be in real trouble.

He's not unbeatable of course, I beat him on hardest difficulty with said minmaxed Consular. It's just a huge difficulty spike -- up to that point it's Stasis Field and Destroy Droid on everything, with that fight it's manic self-buff, self-heal, and kite while chipping away (=mostly whiffing) with a lightsaber. If you're packing some of those grenades that glue him in place it's easier, if not it just takes a long time, is really tedious, and you can't afford any mistakes.

IMO they should've tuned his immunities so that said minmaxed Force consular would be able to get through his defences with Force powers. As it is, they just don't work.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

But he goes down nicely with lightsaber throwing. Consular should dispatch him easily with that power.

 

[Sensuki]

I think that's how I won as a Consular on my very first playthrough, running around and throwing my lightsaber.

 

[Average Manatee]

Even classes that are slightly worse at using a lightsaber should be able to destroy him. Maybe if you 100% powergamed force powers with min str + never got the obviously hugely powerful buff powers he'd be hard, but I think you could overpower him with force then (can't remember if he's actually immune, I though he just had good saves?). Plus the force drain thing works on the guys in stasis so if you have that you're golden.

I don't think he's completely immune, he just has ridiculous saves and the Force Immunity power. The upshot is that he's pretty weak against lightsabers, but extremely tough against Force powers. A minmaxed Guardian will whack him easy-peasy, a minmaxed Consular -- especially light-side Consular -- will be in real trouble.

He's not unbeatable of course, I beat him on hardest difficulty with said minmaxed Consular. It's just a huge difficulty spike -- up to that point it's Stasis Field and Destroy Droid on everything, with that fight it's manic self-buff, self-heal, and kite while chipping away (=mostly whiffing) with a lightsaber. If you're packing some of those grenades that glue him in place it's easier, if not it just takes a long time, is really tedious, and you can't afford any mistakes.

IMO they should've tuned his immunities so that said minmaxed Force consular would be able to get through his defences with Force powers. As it is, they just don't work.

Checking over the powers for the first time in almost a decade, doesn't Force Breach take out his buffs including immunity?

What's his AC anyway? Even Consular in Kotor is 3/4ths AB per level, equivalent of D&D Clerics (who we all know rape in melee, and Kotor still has lots of buffs). Lightsaber is a finesse weapon too, so either Strength or Dexterity works.

Seems rather silly to min-max a lightside Consular without any melee capability. Darkside I get, you just lightning everything. What does Lightside do, meditate enemies to death with their inner peace? Canonically the light Jedi were always more about buffing + lightsabering.

 

[Lord Carlos Wafflebum]

Finally got through Kashyyk, and now I hate wookies. I'll never be able to look at Chewie the same.

Definitely just got abducted tho. That took me by surprise. Haven't had the time to play through that whole thing yet, but it was enough to get me re-engaged after the wookies made me want to quit.

With the way this was structured, I thought it was going to go find all the Star Maps on planets in order of choice > go to some secret planet or some shit > head to wherever the EPIC FINAL BATTLE is (since this game has a wildly similar structure to Mass Effect 1 so far).

 

[Doktor Best]

KOTOR actually introduced the famous Bioware formula they keep copypasting in their recent games. Baldurs Gate had some similarities aswell but is differing in more points.

 

[Carrion]

A surprising twist after visiting two or three locations is also more or less an integral part of the classic BioWare formula.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I played through KotOR and KotOR 2 not too long ago. They are decent RPGs, nothing groundbreaking or great, but enjoyable games. The combat is not as bad as some say, because it's exactly like Fallout 1/2 combat, devoid of any real tactics or thought, but pretty to look at. Queuing up 4 attacks per round with the approriate perks/stances and then watching your character helicopter through the bad guys is fun. This is one of the major advantages of a RTwP system, since the vast majority of RPG combat is shit, those systems let you go through the shit faster.

KotOR 1 is a fun game throughout, not too deep or anything, but typical fun Star Wars stuff. Some good twists throughout, and the ending feels complete. KotOR 2 starts out very strong, with much better dialogue writing and atmosphere, and tantalizes you with its potential, before turning into a complete clusterfuck of writing, plotlines and jumbled ideas toward the end. To summarize:

A significant part of writing being good is some sort of enjoyable or compelling story-journey with an interesting or contentment-inspiring resolution. KOTOR 2 is nothing but ominous foreboding with no follow through. Despite it's pretentiousness it ends up being a long slog through the entire universe's supply of trash mob Jedi Masters to an anticlimactic boss encounter - and that's after several previous disappointing boss encounters.

That's why although KotOR 2 has much more potential with Obsidian level writing, I would say KotOR 1 is probably the better overall game. But they are both good RPGs, worth of at least a single playthrough. The worst thing is the hub structure with tiny zones. You come to a new planet, you want to explore, and you end up with these tiny areas that are just teases.

 

[Lord Carlos Wafflebum]

A surprising twist after visiting two or three locations is also more or less an integral part of the classic BioWare formula.

Do you have an example? I honestly can't remember that happening outside of Baldur's Gate 2.

 

[Carrion]

Do you have an example? I honestly can't remember that happening outside of Baldur's Gate 2.

Virmire in Mass Effect opened up after visiting a couple of locations, DA:O had something similar as well. The execution varies from game to game, but there's always something that briefly breaks the "collect the star maps" pattern.

 

[Lord Carlos Wafflebum]

That's true. Now that you mention it I can think of some much less dramatic versions of it in their current games. I think I prefer how they do the surprise plot redirection in KOTOR. It jars you out of the Bioware drama-rut, instead of it blending with the narrative or being the path to explore at your leisure. It almost convinces me that anything could happen!