Just got Fallout

[oherror]

anyone can see what he typed even though he spaced wrong, course kingcomrade might have issues....

 

[kingcomrade]

I was talking about what you wrote, not bryce, genius.

 

[NeVeRLiFt]

This link should help you make the best character and explain and help you more than anyone here can.

http://user.tninet.se/~wcw454p/guides.html

Have fun

 

[Thydron]

What was the website with all the game manuals again (I lost all my favorites)?

http://www.replacementdocs.com

 

[MINIGUNWIELDER]

play as someone with ADHD:

S-6
P-4
E-3
C-4
I-10
A-10
L-10

 

[Major_Blackhart]

The game is soo good. And I jsut came not too long ago. Ahhh, happy days.

 

[Petey_the_Skid]

since when does small frame give -2 str?, it only reduces carry weight from 25xStr to 15xstr and throws you an extra AG point. Str is important for melee + hand to hand characters, both of which you can get very good weapons with if you look, including a certain one in fallout one that can be reduced to 1 AP point to use if you have fast shot and the right perks, but I won't spoil too much with names and all....

 

[El Dee]

The character I started has:

S:6
P:5
E:3
C:4
I:9
A:8
L:5

So far things have gone well , but I haven't really done shit (besides killing that Gizmo dude).
Really cool game so far, a lot diffrent than anything I've played recently besides maybe ToEE, but that's still not really comparable.

 

[oherror]

I was talking about what you wrote, not bryce, genius.

well thank you, typing one handed and looking for speeders to pull over makes my grammer bad...

 

[kingcomrade]

since when does small frame give -2 str?, it only reduces carry weight from 25xStr to 15xstr and throws you an extra AG point.

Did you read what I wrote, or do you just lack critical thinking skills?

5 STR = 150 carry weight - Note: This is the average starting score
3 STR = 100 carry weight, +2 Attribute Points
5 STR + Small Frame = 100 carry weight, +1 AG

That's 2 effective points of Strength. You still have the Strength points, but they are useless. I've said a number of times that carry weight is the only important part of your strength score. Therefore, you are losing two points of strength for 1 point of agility, when you could lose two points of strength and gain 2 points of agility (or any other stat). Note: The cost is the same, 50 carry weight(this varies a little bit, by about 5 per STR point, which is negligible). For melee characters sure it's different, but melee sucks in Fallout.

 

[bryce777]

"I've said a number of times that carry weight is the only important part of your strength score." Which is wrong, because you need to have the minimum strength of 5 for most of the decent weapons in the game.

 

[kingcomrade]

No, you don't. You can use any gun regardless of it's minimum strength, all it does is put an accuracy penalty which is easily overcome if you, like 99% of the players out there, tag your favorite weapons skill (the point being that this is something you do anyways). I've stated this three or four times now directly to you, why are you still bringing it up?

 

[bryce777]

No, you don't. You can use any gun regardless of it's minimum strength, all it does is put an accuracy penalty which is easily overcome if you, like 99% of the players out there, tag your favorite weapons skill (the point being that this is something you do anyways). I've stated this three or four times now directly to you, why are you still bringing it up?

Because that's ridiculously stupid nonsense.

You could as easily throw your own idiotic argument in your face and say that to overcome the penalty you would have to use two points of intelligence.

Also, not everyone wants to tag weapons; it is totally unnecessary.

 

[Elwro]

KC, can you just try to understand that your beloved 50 points of Carry Weight are completely unimportant for many characters?

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I like to mix it up personally.

 

[kingcomrade]

KC, can you just try to understand that your beloved 50 points of Carry Weight are completely unimportant for many characters?

HELLO? Earth to Elwro. This is what I'm saying.
Okay, let me put it this way.
Do you want 1 point of Agility, or 2 points? Because here's the thing, they both cost the same. My "beloved" carry weight? Where did you get the idea that I care about how much carry weight you lose? I'm telling you that you can get more attribute points in other stats for the same cost as taking Small Frame. Do you understand, now?

You could as easily throw your own idiotic argument in your face and say that to overcome the penalty you would have to use two points of intelligence.

No, all you need to do is devote perhaps one level's worth of skill points to overcome that.

it's not a problem as skill points are easy to come by (1 level at INT 8 = 21 points * 2 tag bonus = 41% in one level)

Because skill points are easy to come by and combat is at close range?

So Bryce, what game are you playing where attribute points are as easy to come by as skill points? Do I need to write it again, are you still having trouble?

You might say losing the STR points costs skill points, but what's the difference between something costing $1.00 and $1.05? Like I said, skill points are easy to come by, attribute points are not.

 

[bryce777]

That's IF you have it tagged, and IF you have a high int character, and IF you dont care about the extra hitpoints, and IF you don't have very high skill level in which case it will be very expensive.

You are oversimplifying things that just are not equivalent. Strength is not = to carry weight, period.

 

[kingcomrade]

That's IF you have it tagged,

How many people don't tag at least one weapon skill? Let's have a poll. Here you go Bryce, this is a quote from me, since you seem to have trouble reading this thread: "the point being that this is something you do anyways"

and IF you have a high int character

Wrong, if you play with a non-stupid character you get plenty of skill points

and IF you dont care about the extra hitpoints,

Strength barely gives you any HPs, that's irrelevant. You said yourself that END is Fallout's dump stat, and it gives more HPs per level.

and IF you don't have very high skill level

You don't need to get the skills very high for them to become useful. 80-90% is fine for a non encumbered character (that's as high as I put my weapon skills, usually), 100-110 is good for encumbered (by more than 2 STR) characters. If you have the weapon skill tagged, that's about 1.5 level's worth of skill points.

You are oversimplifying things that just are not equivalent. Strength is not = to carry weight, period.

I never said that. I said that carry weight is the only important thing that Strength affects.

 

[bryce777]

That's IF you have it tagged,

How many people don't tag at least one weapon skill? Let's have a poll. Here you go Bryce, this is a quote from me, since you seem to have trouble reading this thread: "the point being that this is something you do anyways"

and IF you have a high int character

wrong, if you play with a non-stupid character you get plenty of skill points

and IF you dont care about the extra hitpoints,

Strength barely gives you any HPs, that's irrelevant

and IF you don't have very high skill level

You don't need to get the skills very high for them to become useful.

You are oversimplifying things that just are not equivalent. Strength is not = to carry weight, period.

I never said that. I said that carry weight is the only important thing that Strength affects.

"I never said that. I said that carry weight is the only important thing that Strength affects"

Yes, and you are wrong.


Some people want high skills so they can do targeted shots to the eyes from long range, even with shorter range weapons. Shocking concept.

Say your skill is 150 and you do not have your weapon tagged. Then what? I think the penalty is what, 20%? So, to advance from 150-170 is I believe 60 skill points...or is it 80?

Now, maybe someone who has a weapon tagged and a skill level of 110 is a different story and would only have to spend 20 skill points, but this is an idiotic combination - which seems to be what you are suggesting, basically wasting a tag skill. You also seem to not target body parts, which is a stupid way to play if you are using small arms.

Now, if I took your advice and had a low percepton character, I would need even HIGHER skill in order to play this way due to range penalties.

And, even if I did use your idiot character build suggestion, which has 3 strength, at first level I would be laughably gimped and barely able to shoot the stupid cave rats.

"wrong, if you play with a non-stupid character you get plenty of skill points" Yes, but maybe you don't want to fucking waste them on weapons skills. Ever think of that genius? Especially, you may not want to have to put all your skill points into weapons your first few levels so you can, say, have some skills that help you in quests in the game??? Like maybe speech?

"Strength barely gives you any HPs, that's irrelevant"
If you have a constitution of 3-4, you will barely have any hitpoints, period, and the extra from strength is useful. Once again, it is not the same as nothing.

If carry weight is so important, you can always select mule. Considering your other stats, you would have no low level perks worth choosing at level 3, anyhow, I don't think.

 

[kingcomrade]

"I never said that. I said that carry weight is the only important thing that Strength affects"

Yes, and you are wrong.

And so the other thing that it affects (which I haven't already dealt with) is...?

Say your skill is 150 and you do not have your weapon tagged. Then what? I think the penalty is what, 20%? So, to advance from 150-170 is I believe 60 skill points...or is it 80?

And...? Do I need to quote myself *again*?

Now, maybe someone who has a weapon tagged and a skill level of 110 is a different story and would only have to spend 20 skill points, but this is an idiotic combination - which seems to be what you are suggesting, basically wasting a tag skill.

Uh, what? How is using your tag skill to boost something that needs to be boosted wasting it?

Now, if I took your advice and had a low percepton character, I would need even HIGHER skill in order to play this way due to range penalties.

Where did I advise playing a low perception character?

And, even if I did use your idiot character build suggestion, which has 3 strength, at first level I would be laughably gimped and barely able to shoot the stupid cave rats.

That's incorrect. You should try this stuff out before you run your mouth.

"wrong, if you play with a non-stupid character you get plenty of skill points" Yes, but maybe you don't want to fucking waste them on weapons skills. Ever think of that genius?

Yes, genius. And what else are you going to ONE LEVEL'S WORTH (see how this keeps coming up? You should write it down) of points? Are you telling me that when you play, you don't put points into your weapon skills?

Especially, you may not want to have to put all your skill points into weapons your first few levels so you can, say, have some skills that help you in quests in the game??? Like maybe speech?

*gasp* *shock* Oh darn I wish I had come up with an answer to this question and posted it in the two times before this!

"Strength barely gives you any HPs, that's irrelevant"
If you have a constitution of 3-4, you will barely have any hitpoints, period, and the extra from strength is useful. Once again, it is not the same as nothing.

Yes, it is. The difference between 3 END and 5 END is something like 20 HPs at level 10 (which is half all of the possible progression in the entire game). Big fucking deal.

If carry weight is so important, you can always select mule. Considering your other stats, you would have no low level perks worth choosing at level 3, anyhow, I don't think.

Why do you people keep saying that I think carry weight is important? Can you not read? Are you illiterate, Bryce? Carry weight is the COST.

 

[kingcomrade]

Alright, I see a potential point for misunderstanding, considering how stupid you people have proven to be.

Small Frame = -50 carry weight, +1 AG
-2STR = -50 carry weight, +2 AG (or any other stat)

-1STR = -25 carry weight, +1 AG

SAME BENEFIT, SMALLER COST. And a -1 STR encumberance penalty takes a paltry 5-10% skill increase to overcome.
The same way you can get TWICE THE BENEFIT, for the SAME COST.

Do I really need to write like Frankie to get this utterly simple concept across to you?

Stop arguing with me just because I'm kingspamrade who doesn't like Space Rangers.

 

[Elwro]

Holy crap, it's pointless... my small-guns loving chars can, by taking Small Frame, have +1 AGI at no cost because they don't care about Carry Weight. Why the hell should I want to reduce my other stats, like STR?
I'm not arguing with you because you suck at Russian video games, but it seems that you just can't understand that a certain statistic can not be important for certain character types in Fallout.

KC, my heart beats faster when I see your avatar and please pass my most tender greetings to your Slavonic gf, but let's just drop the topic.

 

[kingcomrade]

The point is that you can get a better deal. I am saying that if you don't care about carry weight, then you don't care about losing 2 or 1 point of strength, because in the 3-7 STR range (to be more specific than I was before, after I tested a little bit), that's all Strength is useful for.

 

[Petey_the_Skid]

Better deal?, small frame gives you an extra agility point, meaning that if i really was going to take two points out of str, I could then put that 2nd point somewhere else important, like intelligence or perception.
I also undersatnd you saying that if you put enough skill points into my guns skills I won't have to worry about penalties, but why would I want to impose those penalties in the first place, as they'll still be fairly significant at lower levels.

 

[LlamaGod]

My 'standard' character is usually

S - 6
P - 10
E - 5
C - 5
I - 6
A - 10
L - 6

Add 4 points to Perception, Remove 1 from Endurance and Charisma, Add 3 points to Agility.

Traits: Gifted and Small Frame (+1 to everything then another +1 for Agility)

Tag Stealing, Small Guns and Energy Weapons.

Use small guns until you can get a good Energy Weapon and steal off EVERYONE, especially starting off.

You'll be a gun combat character, pretty much, but it's pretty effective for getting through the game.


The weirder character types are my more favorite. I've beaten it as the gunman, the retard, the melee and the hand-to-hand types.

Hand-to-hand is surprisingly very good if done right.