I've finally decided on what exactly makes Morrowind...

[DragoFireheart]

...superior to Oblivion.

Setting and Story: On god this. The story, setting, art design far exceed Oblivions to the point that's it's like comparing PS:T to Dragon Age 2. The Dunmer culture is unique and interesting, the landscape is varied and fun to explore, the story brings up questions about whether the false gods were any better than Dagoth, and some of the quests have severe repercussions depending on who you work with (Figthers / Thieve guilds for example). Also, NO FUCKING ESSENTIAL NPCS THAT ARE IMMORTAL! Morrowind clearly is the superior of the two. Also, no quest compass of retartedness.

Combat: Mechanically, Oblivious is better. I found the blocking and sword play to be superior to Morrowinds die roll and hope to hit. In execution, Morrowind is far better. How is it that I hit some lowly villager with a Claymore in Oblivion yet they don't die until 7 hits later!? It was fucking retard and at least Morrowind make this aspect better. Also, the weapon variety was far more interesting, especially with thrown weapons and crossbows and the like.

Magic: Magic felt somewhat broken in Morrowind: casting spells were kinda lame, while enchanted items and alchemy could turn you into a god. In Oblivion this was balanced out, but it was also dumbed down and became very lame. The loss of the teleport spells, the variety of enchant-able items, and the variety of other spells was what made casting spells in Morrowind more fun.

Level-scaling: Oblivion failed in this, period. For what few merits it had, level-scaled enemies, dungeons and quest fucking rewards ruined the game. Had Oblivion not had level scaled crap and had more hand-placed goodies, it might have been decent. But, it didn't. FUCK YOU WHOMEVER MADE THIS DESIGN CHOICE I HOPE YOU ROT IN HELL AND THE MIGHT OF 77 DONKEY DICKS RIPS YOUR ASSHOLE APART!

Shivering Isles helped redeem Oblivion a bit and reminded me heavily of Morrowind, but the damage was already done due to level scaling and the sheer blandness of the it. My only hope is that Skyrim fixes this. I'm willing to give Bethesda one more chance to do a proper Elder Scrolls game before they go on my shit list (Bioware, Activison, EA, and Blizzard are the most notable currently on this shit list).

And that's it. Rant over.

 

[hoverdog]

took you long enough.

 

[racofer]

Setting and Story: On god this. The story, setting, art design far exceed Oblivions to the point that's it's like comparing PS:T to Dragon Age 2. The Dunmer culture is...

Wow, I had no idea PS:T was that bad.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Setting and Story: On god this. The story, setting, art design far exceed Oblivions to the point that's it's like comparing PS:T to Dragon Age 2. The Dunmer culture is...

Wow, I had no idea PS:T was that bad.

 

[Black Bart Charley]

:puke:

 

[Surf Solar]

Setting and Story: On god this. The story, setting, art design far exceed Oblivions to the point that's it's like comparing PS:T to Dragon Age 2. The Dunmer culture is...

Wow, I had no idea PS:T was that bad.

I don't get it. My newfag brian is close to explode trying to comprehend the joke.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

bro assume equal quality variance

morrowind is massively improved oblivion
pst is therefore massively improved dragon age 2

 

[racofer]

Shivering Isles was trash. Why do people keep citing it as an improvement over the Fallout prequel?

You have your head shoved into a bucket of diarrhea on a daily basis by your overlords. Some day, they start shoving your head into a bucket of dried out dog shit. Which is better and why?

 

[racofer]

But what will your friends talk about you if you don't enjoy Bethesda games like everyone else? Everyone knows Bethesda makes the best rpg games this gen.

 

[racofer]

That's true. With the exception of Fallout 3 which takes the maturity in games to a whole new level with community developed animated prostitution mod.

 

[Sceptic]

took you long enough.

Yeah, what is it with all these threads claiming to reinvent the wheel?

Shivering Isles was trash. Why do people keep citing it as an improvement over the Fallout prequel?

I don't know. Personally I wasn't too impressed. I mean it is marginally better than the Oblivion MQ, and there are a couple of refreshing quests that have no journal entry or quest compass and that you have to solve either by paying attention to what's being said or thorough exploration, but unfortunately the typical Oblivion flaws mean that exploration is no fun anyway.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

But what will your friends talk about you if you don't enjoy Bethesda games like everyone else? Everyone knows Bethesda makes the best rpg games this gen.

friends

Found your problem. You assume too much with your conjectures.

 

[DraQ]

...superior to Oblivion.

You could've just asked. I'd have told you all that.

Combat: Mechanically, Oblivious is better. I found the blocking and sword play to be superior to Morrowinds die roll and hope to hit. In execution, Morrowind is far better. How is it that I hit some lowly villager with a Claymore in Oblivion yet they don't die until 7 hits later!?

That's where you got your shit hopelessly mixed-up. Oblivious swordplay is presentation, not mechanics. Mechanics is the part where damage seeps through shield and where enemies don't die after being brained several times with a heavy weapon.

In terms of mechanics MW is infinitely better, with far better armour mechanics, knockdowns, attribute influence and accuracy, it's just that failed rolls aren't really translated into animations or sounds.

Magic: Magic felt somewhat broken in Morrowind: casting spells were kinda lame, while enchanted items and alchemy could turn you into a god.

Alchemy and Enchentments were ridiculously OP, but spellcasting was hardly lame. You just had to make the right spells.

Shivering Isles was trash. Why do people keep citing it as an improvement over the Fallout prequel?

I don't know. Personally I wasn't too impressed. I mean it is marginally better than the Oblivion MQ

More along the lines of PS:T to BG1 better. It was still pretty mediocre (plus Sheogorath - nevar forget!!1), but actually somewhat enjoyable with all the basic mods and fixes.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Morrowind is better simply because the designers actually took efforts in putting stuff in it as opposed to Oblivion. It was fun to explore and stumble upon secret loot/stories in Morrowind. Oblivion did (or rather tried) this flamboyantly like it was their special gift to gamers and failed at it too.

Neither Morrowind or Oblivion has good gameplay. The RPG system is either is broken beyond belief. At least Morrowind was a novelty in terms of a REALLY large open world and completely crafted dungeons (some of the dwemer's ones of which actually had atmospheric feeling). Morrowind actually lood artistically designed when compared to conteporary games! oblivion looks like it was designed by retards. While Morrowind had excellent lore for those interested in reading it that maintained the intrigue of the story (who fucking killed Nerevar and what really happened at Mount Do.. sorry red mountain and the dwarves??), oblivion rambled about useless stuff that made me cry with boredom.

No denying it. The alternate route was a nice surprise too. It was well executed and deserved acclaim that it got.

I would play Morrowind over Oblivion any damn day.

 

[SCO]

Apparently Vivec both killed and didn't kill Nerevar.
...
Don't ask.

 

[DragoFireheart]

That's where you got your shit hopelessly mixed-up. Oblivious swordplay is presentation, not mechanics. Mechanics is the part where damage seeps through shield and where enemies don't die after being brained several times with a heavy weapon.

In terms of mechanics MW is infinitely better, with far better armour mechanics, knockdowns, attribute influence and accuracy, it's just that failed rolls aren't really translated into animations or sounds.

Right. I used the wrong terms but correctly identified the issues. You knew what I meant. You also hit some other points spot on.

Alchemy and Enchentments were ridiculously OP, but spellcasting was hardly lame. You just had to make the right spells.

Spellcasting was relatively lame. As a secondary, non-combat support skill, yes, it's fine. But if I want to be a fireballing mage? Eh, it doesn't work too well. You could drink a shit ton of potions to compensate, but why not just grab a giant sword and save yourself the time? Feel free to enlighten me.

 

[DraQ]

Spellcasting was relatively lame. As a secondary, non-combat support skill, yes, it's fine. But if I want to be a fireballing mage? Eh, it doesn't work too well. You could drink a shit ton of potions to compensate, but why not just grab a giant sword and save yourself the time? Feel free to enlighten me.

Well, pretty much all the premade offensive spells are shit (God's ___ spells are actually useful in terms of brute force, lightning and all the storms, marginally useful), but you can make some really powerful ones by yourself, you just have to think in terms of more than just dealing damage. Chaining right effects (weaknesses, attribute drain/damage, fatigue drain, etc. ) in single spells will let you rape most stuff with impunity. The only problems will be reflect and magic immunity, but then you can use summons. Magic immunity also doesn't protect against all-or-nothing effects - paralysis and silence, though they can be resisted with willpower, and you can't drain it if the enemy is immune to magic.

Elemental damage is nice, especially if chained with single or double stage resistance piercer, but it doesn't solve all problems.

 

[DalekFlay]

Bethesda games are all about exploring immersive worlds to me. Their dialog, choices and roleplaying are weak as shit. Morrowind is a better game because it had a much cooler world to explore and a better setting story-wise. Neither game really excels at anything outside of exploration.

 

[tindrli]

Level-scaling: Oblivion failed in this, period. For what few merits it had, level-scaled enemies, dungeons and quest fucking rewards ruined the game. Had Oblivion not had level scaled crap and had more hand-placed goodies, it might have been decent. But, it didn't. FUCK YOU WHOMEVER MADE THIS DESIGN CHOICE I HOPE YOU ROT IN HELL AND THE MIGHT OF 77 DONKEY DICKS RIPS YOUR ASSHOLE APART!

there is a very good Mod for this level scaling shit. its a pain in the ass to install it properly but it changes game experience for sure

http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/convergence.html

 

[Multidirectional]

took you long enough.

Ya, even gaming journos were quicker at this.

 

[Gord]

That's where you got your shit hopelessly mixed-up. Oblivious swordplay is presentation, not mechanics. Mechanics is the part where damage seeps through shield and where enemies don't die after being brained several times with a heavy weapon.

In terms of mechanics MW is infinitely better, with far better armour mechanics, knockdowns, attribute influence and accuracy, it's just that failed rolls aren't really translated into animations or sounds.

They are both pretty bad.
Morrowind's is easily broken and exploitable and Oblivion's is boring and repetitious.
Also, name me any cRPG where the "enemies don't die after being brained several times with a heavy weapon" doesn't happen?

Alchemy and Enchentments were ridiculously OP, but spellcasting was hardly lame. You just had to make the right spells.

Just by including automatic mana regeneration, for once magic would have been balanced much better .
And even with the right spells, compared to just using any lowly enchanted weapon, casting magic was ridiculously weak.

Shivering Isles was trash. Why do people keep citing it as an improvement over the Fallout prequel?.

It had at least somewhat creative visuals and an unusual story.

 

[DraQ]

That's where you got your shit hopelessly mixed-up. Oblivious swordplay is presentation, not mechanics. Mechanics is the part where damage seeps through shield and where enemies don't die after being brained several times with a heavy weapon.

In terms of mechanics MW is infinitely better, with far better armour mechanics, knockdowns, attribute influence and accuracy, it's just that failed rolls aren't really translated into animations or sounds.

They are both pretty bad.
Morrowind's is easily broken and exploitable and Oblivion's is boring and repetitious.
Also, name me any cRPG where the "enemies don't die after being brained several times with a heavy weapon" doesn't happen?

Well, that's the problem of typical HP systems, but in Morrowind the effect wasn't nearly as noticeable and successful hits seemed to have much more impact.

It wasn't a rare occurence to two-hit (knockdown, coup de grace) an NPC with powerful weapon or to get two-hitted by a powerful enemy.

Also, where exactly was Morrowind combat system broken? I'm not speaking of AI, of Alchemy nor of exploitable training, but of combat itself. It was rather sound, if clunky.

Just by including automatic mana regeneration, for once magic would have been balanced much better .
And even with the right spells, compared to just using any lowly enchanted weapon, casting magic was ridiculously weak.

I don't know about mana regen. On one hand it's dumbing down, on the other, it would help offset the awesomeness of Atronach sign.

As for enchanted weapons they generally had very limited enchant potential, so you couldn't enchant them with anything interesting. Spells, OTOH, are limited only by your stats and stats can be boosted by spells and CE enchants (I'm leaving out alchemy due to cheese).

Shivering Isles was trash. Why do people keep citing it as an improvement over the Fallout prequel?.

It had at least somewhat creative visuals and an unusual story.

SI was pretty meh, but at least it was slightly on the enjoyable side of meh, unlike the base game. And in terms of world, story and general uniqueness it was an improvement so vast (despite being meh when seen in the broader context), that it can be only compared to PS:T vs BG1.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Well, pretty much all the premade offensive spells are shit (God's ___ spells are actually useful in terms of brute force, lightning and all the storms, marginally useful), but you can make some really powerful ones by yourself, you just have to think in terms of more than just dealing damage. Chaining right effects (weaknesses, attribute drain/damage, fatigue drain, etc. ) in single spells will let you rape most stuff with impunity. The only problems will be reflect and magic immunity, but then you can use summons. Magic immunity also doesn't protect against all-or-nothing effects - paralysis and silence, though they can be resisted with willpower, and you can't drain it if the enemy is immune to magic.

Elemental damage is nice, especially if chained with single or double stage resistance piercer, but it doesn't solve all problems.

I made a spell called Blind that is basically a 1 power calm humaniod/calm creature that lasts ten seconds and the monster won't attack back regardless of level. Big exploit? I use it with my thief and it's a bit powerful...

 

[Gord]

Also, where exactly was Morrowind combat system broken? I'm not speaking of AI, of Alchemy nor of exploitable training, but of combat itself. It was rather sound, if clunky.

Maybe combat itself wasn't but overall balance seemed off.
In the end it's suffering from being a 1st person RPG. It will always be extremely difficult to get it to work right, as it will suffer strongly from the contrast between player and character skill.

I don't know about mana regen. On one hand it's dumbing down, on the other, it would help offset the awesomeness of Atronach sign.

Usually I'm not a fan of auto-regen mechanics, but in games with high density of enemies mana-regeneration can make sense, imho. It would have made a pure mage a more viable character in Morrowind, I think.

 

[DraQ]

Also, where exactly was Morrowind combat system broken? I'm not speaking of AI, of Alchemy nor of exploitable training, but of combat itself. It was rather sound, if clunky.

Maybe combat itself wasn't but overall balance seemed off.

Obviously it was off by a huge margin (mostly due to dumb AI, lack of high-level challenges and due to obvious loopholes, in normal use skills were surprisingly balanced).

In the end it's suffering from being a 1st person RPG. It will always be extremely difficult to get it to work right, as it will suffer strongly from the contrast between player and character skill.

Well it needs better presentation and, possibly, more detailed mechanics. Still, Morrowind would play much better if miss/dodge/parry/glance off armour animation was triggered by failed melee attacks and if ranged attacks failed due to spread, not rolls.

Plus, Morrowind had superb exploration element which was greatly enhanced by it being FPP game - exploring in iso, top-down or TPP is almost invariably shit.

Usually I'm not a fan of auto-regen mechanics, but in games with high density of enemies mana-regeneration can make sense, imho. It would have made a pure mage a more viable character in Morrowind, I think.

Well, except Morrowind has rather low density of enemies.

I made a spell called Blind that is basically a 1 power calm humaniod/calm creature that lasts ten seconds and the monster won't attack back regardless of level. Big exploit?

Well, yeah. 'Calm' effect is broken like that in vanilla, I think MCP might fix that.