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I've decided to throw my hat into the Cleve Blakemore Arena

bryce777

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In my country the system operates YOU
I, too, am a lunatic former game programmer. In fact, I am even older school than he is. I didn't ever make any rpgs, though.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about this, and have decided what I want in an rpg, and based on that I have made my design. In fact, while I was retired (I just had to start working again due to the divorce) I was coding about 20 hours a week on it and had been for about a year. I was pretty far along in some ways.

For instance, I have an extensive toolset for creating quests and placing characters in the game itself. I also have a lot of quests and dialog created, and though this changes quite a bit I have a toolset for taking characters into combat so I can play around with my ever changing combat system, which I like to think is shaping up to be very nice in that it is easy to use and understand the basics, but very difficult to master.

Unfortunately I have come to a roadblock which has made me decide to make a huge departure. Before, I was trying to make my own object oriented graphics library which automatically called either directx or opengl. It is a good approach in some respects, but I have realized that directx just sucks far too much to even be considered useable for something like portability. it is too messy, and it changes too much from version to version. Once it comes out, I just don't have the resources to make it work on every piece of garbage graphics card out there, either. I remember when people had to be smart to program...oh, SO long ago!!! Now they will give any idiot an IDE and let him go to town.

So, I have made the decision to toss out graphical acceleration completely and start over again from scratch on many(actually most) of the parts. I am also tossing out several of my tools I was using, and I am switching totally to linux, emacs, gcc, and a tiny bit of SDL. I don't think the graphical quality will suffer o'vermuch, to be honest. It will royally suck anyhow, until I have a REAL artist do some work on it. This will force me to make a new map builder, but that is not a terrible thing, and I am not absolutely happy with my current one, anyhow. I will also have to rework a lot of code extensively.

I haven't done any work for a couple months, but I hope to soon force myself to start coding ten hours a week again. I was at the point of all the pieces to make a game, but having to tie them together, but now I am set back quite a way, but I expect that I will be able to do pretty well regarding getting to steam again.



Gameplay:
Here is where I am trying to make my game shine. It will be a combat intensive game, but it will not be so much the VOLUME of combat, but merely the fact that it can be rather involved. In combat, I borrow a bit from betrayal at krondor, a bit from darklands, a tiny bit from geneforge, and a tiny bit from xcom and jagged alliance, with a fair amount of plundering from fallout's special system and DnD 3.5. I also have some unique touches,a nd overall I think that this is the best thing the game will have to offer.

Also, pathfinding algorithms are in effect and work perfectly on all maps. Of course, I will have to redo the way maps work, so I may have to redo some or all of this, as well.

Story:
Without revealing too much and spoiling it (or finding the best parts in some shitass bioware game in 3 years) I will say that I am not a bad writer at all, and that I have been paid quite a bit to do technical writing in the past, and I have a decent imagination. Hell, I think some people liked my star child plot better than cleve's real plot. When I get to the point of release, I will also hire some sort of professional to proof things a bit and give me ideas, and perhaps to flush certain things out a bit. This depends on how good things look. There will be some humor, but not humor that tries too hard(I hope), and there will not be lots of pop culture references or anything, unless they are very deeply hidden. Since I am not a big name, once I start beta I will also take advice on the story and see how it's received. Fortunately, since I do everything with tools it will not be hard to change dialog or quest structure.

I think most people will like the story, and the ones who don't can fuck themselves because they are probably just stupid. I will not reveal any more than that, not even if it is more fantasy or scifi, but I do PROMISE originality.

Replayability:
It will be replayable. As it stands, there are not really classes at all, but some stats will seldom change and they will sort of dictate what characters are good at. So, from that angle, there will be a different experience playing the game.

For many, not all, 'quests' there will be mutiple ways to achieve goals. Also, you can pursue the end of the game through at least two totally unique strategies, which can lead to totally different game areas and quest options. Many quests will only be available in certain circumstances or will be interrelated with other ones and how you handle them, and there are quite a few easter egglike quests which will not be found by most people.

There are no stupid HERE IS THE GOOD GUY OPTION HERE IS THE BADGUY OPTION crap, though. There is also not the inane HERE IS THE MAGE OPTION HERE IS THE THIEF OPTION either. Violence is often a good answer, but in some cases it will get you wiped out utterly, and it will in general make it hard for you to figure out a lot of what's going on in the plot. It will not make the game unplayable, though,a nd there is no YOU BETTER RELOAD NOW nonsense either. BECAUSE I AM NOT A MORON. UNLIKE MOST PEOPLE MAKING GAMES, IT SEEMS.

Also, they will not have a fixed number of solutions. Some could have just one, others 2, others three, some of them half a dozen. Some, it might be wiser not to complete at all, or might have consequences you might not have considered.

Stats and character development:
Darklands or xcom is the best analogy here. Stats increase over time through use. I am also thinking about applying rot, but I think mostly it will be hard to get uberstats in the first place. BUT, as in both mentioned games, especially xcom, stats and skills do not make the characters superpowerful. To win combat, a variety of thinks are needed, including common sense and a sense of strategy. Characters getting killed is something which will happen fairly often in certain game stages, but they will be replaced fairly easily and the game is rather item and knowledge oriented - think xcom in how you lose guys all the time at first. Later on it will be different - one goal is to make the game's gameplay not only good, but different according to different stages of power level and plot developement. This is one part that is very difficult to achieve, but I think it's important and have given this much thought.

Graphics:
Will probably suck. It will be a top down rpg, with no graphical acceleration. Once the game is functional, I will give this more thought and get some genuine artists to help me. For now I am making garbarge myself or else stealing models from other games (which obviously is just for use as a placeholder). I have a lot of ideas, and now I need to rethink things even more since I have to start this part over completely.


When:

This is the worst part. Obviously I have a life to live (of some sort, anyhow) and I also have a job. I jave decided to make my goal for release the end of 2010. This give me plenty of time to make a truly high quality game without either quitting my job or using every second of my freetime. By release I mean beta release. The details of how I release it depend on its reception: if I could get some funding I might try to make it a commercial game, if everyone hates it then I might just delete the fucker. And myself. Somewhere in between I will probably do some kind of internet release ala spider software and see if I can make enough money to develope games full time. Or if I am retired again by then then I may be able to do them full time regardless, if I enjoy it.



Anyway, I just wanted to make this announcement. I don't plan to release any more info or any screenshots (there are none for now anyhow) until I am close to a beta version. I am releasing it as much to spur myself back into action so I don't look like an idiot as anything else.
 

obediah

Erudite
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
5,051
So you're going to kill yourself if we don't like your game? :)

It all sounds pretty interesting to me. I don't give a crap about graphics as long as the text is clean and the interface is usable.

The thing that is going to keep me from commenting further on it is a 2010 release date. If I was willing to think about things that far in the future, I'd make my own rpg. :)

I just hope you allowed the time necessary to build a bunker and write several racist manifestos in that release date, no one likes vapourware.


EDIT: oh yeah, good luck!
 

bryce777

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obediah said:
So you're going to kill yourself if we don't like your game? :)

It all sounds pretty interesting to me. I don't give a crap about graphics as long as the text is clean and the interface is usable.

The thing that is going to keep me from commenting further on it is a 2010 release date. If I was willing to think about things that far in the future, I'd make my own rpg. :)

I just hope you allowed the time necessary to build a bunker and write several racist manifestos in that release date, no one likes vapourware.

The buker is a must! I will leave the racist stuff to cleve and maybe talk in hushed tones about aliens and the illuminati instead, though. And skull and bones. I already plan to have hidden references to the trilateral commision, bilderberg, and the umbrian council.

2010 is a long time away, but that is a realistic date. I am not going to hype this thing 10 hours a week and program 10 a week for the next 5 years...if Cleve had announced his game last month or even last year people would not be giving him flack left and right...if he had spent the time hyping it and bragging on the game, it would be done. If my finances shape up and I can retire maybe I can go to work on it more or less full time.

I figure if I make a game *I* like, I will be pretty happy - I expect I will not make much money if any from this thing. The combat seems fun to me and easy to figure out, but when it comes to usability, the creator is wholy unable to judge on his own.
 

corvax

Augur
Joined
Jul 13, 2004
Messages
731
Sounds interesting but 2010? Damn that's a long time from now.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
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Aug 8, 2005
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My hat is always off to anybody who tries something like this. what makes direct X so terrible and why is portability a big issue for you? It just seems a pity to rework so much stuff, especially since you have limited time to work on it anyway?
 

Jed

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Tech Bro Hell
2010 isn't that far away, and if you want to do this, I and others from the 'Codex will be here to help in what ever ways we can. Of course, there will be an overwhelming number of nay-sayers, but look what VD has done in spite of it.
 

Sarvis

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Location
Buffalo, NY
Re: I've decided to throw my hat into the Cleve Blakemore Ar

bryce777 said:
Unfortunately I have come to a roadblock which has made me decide to make a huge departure. Before, I was trying to make my own object oriented graphics library which automatically called either directx or opengl. It is a good approach in some respects, but I have realized that directx just sucks far too much to even be considered useable for something like portability. it is too messy, and it changes too much from version to version. Once it comes out, I just don't have the resources to make it work on every piece of garbage graphics card out there, either. I remember when people had to be smart to program...oh, SO long ago!!! Now they will give any idiot an IDE and let him go to town.

ERr... it's too complex for you to do, so that means "any idiot" can do it?

Yeah.
 

Sarvis

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Jed said:
I think he meant that Direct X is less usable because it's programmed poorly.

Oh, yeah I guess it could be taken that way...

But really, it's poorly programmed because it's Microsoft, not because any idiot can code. It's part of their business model. :P
 

TheGreatGodPan

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
1,762
Re: I've decided to throw my hat into the Cleve Blakemore Ar

bryce777 said:
Hell, I think some people liked my star child plot better than cleve's real plot.
Cleve had a real plot?
 

Shagnak

Shagadelic
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
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Arse of the world, New Zealand
obediah said:
I just hope you allowed the time necessary to build a bunker and write several racist manifestos in that release date, no one likes vapourware.

Heh.
That reminds my of this masterpiece about Cleve (by Saran)

cleve17gn1td.png


Still a classic!
 

Rat Keeng

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
869
Push release to 2012, that way your game can be in direct competition with the release of Grimoire :)

At any rate, good luck with it and god be with you.
 

bryce777

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Jed said:
2010 isn't that far away, and if you want to do this, I and others from the 'Codex will be here to help in what ever ways we can. Of course, there will be an overwhelming number of nay-sayers, but look what VD has done in spite of it.

Yeah, I was impressed by some of the stuff I had seen from VD. It is not the direction I would take things, but hey I am not him so that is obvious.

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm really hoping to get myself motivated to get this thing rolling again.
 

bryce777

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Rat Keeng said:
Push release to 2012, that way your game can be in direct competition with the release of Grimoire :)

At any rate, good luck with it and god be with you.

Well, it would be premature to do that now...I need to declare it's done first and THEN push it back 3 months at a time for 3-4 years.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,038
Considering that sad state of the genre, I think that the future is in independent games. That's where the creativity, originality, focus on gameplay, and love of the fucking genre is.
M&B has clearly shown that it could be a profitable, for a small team, venture too, so I'm pretty sure we'd see more people joining the ranks of amateur developers.

What I'm trying to say is, Im glad that you are trying to make a game, bryce, but hurry the fuck up :). And post some thoughts on design elements and such.


It is not the direction I would take things, but hey I am not him so that is obvious.
Care to clarify? Good criticism is hard to find, so don't hold back.
 

bryce777

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Vault Dweller said:
What I'm trying to say is, Im glad that you are trying to make a game, bryce, but hurry the fuck up :). And post some thoughts on design elements and such.

LOL

If I ever get the divorce wrapped up, maybe I will move somewhere cheaper and reretire, then I can get to work full time. I don't want to reveal much more than I have already. I also don't want to start the hype machine til I can make truthful statements and have a game that is pretty close to beta ready.


I remember you had the same sort of thing as in toee where it tells you what skill gives you a response. Personally, I really disliked that in toee...I'm not too crazy about all the talking skills in DnD 3.5, but if they are going to be there it should work differently. For example, if you click on intimidate then you should see your character say that, IF they succeed, otherwise he says something less good and fumbles it.

I even considered no dialog trees at all and doing things in a sort of wizardrylike manner, but I figured I would just make people angry and confused.
 

NeutralMilkHotel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 14, 2004
Messages
389
Don't do dialogue trees. They degrade the gameplay, and they really limit what you can do. You just talk to people in the right order.

I'd like to hear more about your combat system though.
 

bryce777

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NeutralMilkHotel said:
Don't do dialogue trees. They degrade the gameplay, and they really limit what you can do. You just talk to people in the right order.

I'd like to hear more about your combat system though.

As I was saying. If you were a bit smarter, you would not tout my old words as if they were idiotic, but you're not, so instead you show off your ignorance of old school rpgs as well as your lack of thinking ability.
 

NeutralMilkHotel

Liturgist
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Dec 14, 2004
Messages
389
No, I'm serious, don't make dialogue trees. I don't think you could actually write good enough dialogue to justify having them.

And I do want to hear about the combat. Because what it sounds like now is you just naming some of your favorite games and saying, "yeah, It'll be a bit like all of em". Any specifics?
 

bryce777

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Well, I am accounted a pretty good writer, but take whatever view you like, I guess.

As for combat, no. I have released the information which I wanted to, and if you want to see more you will have to wait a few years. Those are the influences which I have drawn from, but it will be unique and has many things that are not in any game I know of - I am not claiming it will be better than all those games together and it will not be a crazy senseless hybrid like the suits in publishing companies go gaga for. It is also very tentative and I was constantly in the process of modifying the combat and in fact the whole stat system.
 

DarkUnderlord

Professional Throne Sitter
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bryce777 said:
Oh well, I suppose I did not expect much. Just throwing it out there and hopefully I will get my ass in gear.
Summary of what you've posted:

Gameplay: Super-cool combat!
Story: Yeah, I'm a good writer. I am.
Replayability: It will be replayable (that's a genuine quote too by the way).
Stats and character development: Stats go up!
Graphics: Meh.

It's all very nice, but what are you telling me here that you couldn't have summed up in 6 words: LOL I R TEH MAKIN RPG!

You're not asking me what I want to see or what kind of RPG we might be interested in, you're telling us what you're going to. Now there's nothing wrong with that but it doesn't really lend itself to posting a reply other than: OMG SUPAR COOL I WATE FOR RPG TEHN!
 

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