Items in fantasy RPGs

[Fez]

Throw suggestions around! He can fish out something that catches his eye, unless he cares to be more specific.

 

[Fresh]

Throw suggestions around! He can fish out something that catches his eye, unless he cares to be more specific.

I almost strained my brain when I tried to answer the question.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Bola's (I think), maybe jars of oil to throw at enemies and with a torch light em up.

That would require some animation to go with it, otherwise it's a good idea that we've already considered. It's one thing to tell you that you've climbed a wall and teleport you on the other side, and it's another to tell you that you threw an oil bomb and the motherfuckers are on fire, running and screaming, yet you don't see that on the screen.

Grappling hook 'n' rope

We have a rope. Would it be sufficient to tell players that you used the rope to climb something or does it have to have a hook?

A lot of things in the game will happen via dialogue windows. You r-click on an object and get a list of things that you could do with it. You pick an option and if you have all necessary items, stats, skills, and info (sometimes you have to know that you can do a certain thing before an option gets available), then you can do that.

I think trap items would be a good idea. It'd be sensible that you couldn't keep pulling traps out of nowhere and had to buy/make them from somewhere. It could help balance the skill too.

Originally I didn't want to visualize traps to let players use their imagination. That way traps could work in a variety of situations (door, narrow passage, stairs, specific item, etc). Anyway, I'll play with some concepts.

A compass. Might increase speed on "map travel" if that's part of the game.

We have an astrolabe - "a compact instrument used to observe and calculate the position of celestial bodies". Works the same way.

What about COMBINATIONS of items that yield something new?

Not really crafting just a simple combine to make something more useful/powerful.

You can only use that to craft weapons. What did you have in mind?

Clothes or jewelry that give better/different reactions

Already in. All clothes/armors have Dress_Value property. Because of Disguise skill the game reacts to what you are wearing. Also, wearing expensive rings/pendants bumps up your Prestige reputation.

Gah VD! What a broad-ass question to ask.. Maybe you should narrow it down, make some categories or something. Or do you actually want us to throw suggestions around like crazy?

Yep. Maybe I'll see something I like.

 

[Sarkile]

Is it at all possible to add in some animations like in a patch or something after you've released the game? I liked how there was a couple of non armor outfits a character could choose from in Arcanum, and I think that would add some to your game.
It wasn't important or anything, just a nice touch that I enjoyed.

 

[Fez]

Originally I didn't want to visualize traps to let players use their imagination. That way traps could work in a variety of situations (door, narrow passage, stairs, specific item, etc). Anyway, I'll play with some concepts.

You don't need to see the traps on-screen, just as an inventory item. It worked for FO, Arcanum and the IE games.

Already in. All clothes/armors have Dress_Value property. Because of Disguise skill the game reacts to what you are wearing. Also, wearing expensive rings/pendants bumps up your Prestige reputation.

Damn, that's good to hear.

I do like crafting items, so anything along those lines is a plus.

 

[Spazmo]

Already in. All clothes/armors have Dress_Value property. Because of Disguise skill the game reacts to what you are wearing. Also, wearing expensive rings/pendants bumps up your Prestige reputation.

Dressing fancy should have reaction penalties among some people like, say, a group of poor people resentful of the rich.

 

[Shagnak]

Dressing fancy should have reaction penalties among some people like, say, a group of poor people resentful of the rich.

And then they can beat you up for your Nikes (or the mediaeval equivalent).
Which could lead onto "recovering the valuable sandals"-type sidequests :shock:

We have a rope. Would it be sufficient to tell players that you used the rope to climb something or does it have to have a hook?

Depends what sort of climbing you are doing.
If you are climbing down something, then the rope alone should be okay.
If you want to use it to climb UP however, you need some way of getting the rope to the top of the cliff (or whatever) and making it stay there.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Is it at all possible to add in some animations like in a patch or something after you've released the game?

Honestly, I doubt that. If the game sells ok, I'd prefer to do another one instead of adding some animations. If the game doesn't sell, then I doubt that some animations would help it.

I liked how there was a couple of non armor outfits a character could choose from in Arcanum, and I think that would add some to your game. It wasn't important or anything, just a nice touch that I enjoyed.

There are quite a few non-armor outfits so don't worry about that.

You don't need to see the traps on-screen, just as an inventory item. It worked for FO, Arcanum and the IE games.

I know. I meant it in a " how the fuck that's gonna work on that door" way. In FO that was a dynamite stick - no questions about how that would work. In Arcanum it was something you put on the floor, and I don't recall any traps inventory items in IE.

Dressing fancy should have reaction penalties among some people like, say, a group of poor people resentful of the rich.

You are talking crazy! Everyone likes the rich! Well, in the game it's the rich and powerful that matter. Nobody gives a damn about what some peasants dislike, that's just the way things are. BUT dressing fancy would get you attacked and robbed more often, and since you are no superman, things may not work out in your favor.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Alchemy. Your game is incomplete without it. A character should be able to learn alchemy or herbalism and use it to concoct potions to temporarily coat his weapon with poison, add durability, or permanently harden his equipment.

Just so you don't make it a pain in the ass to coat his weapon with poison you should have an automatic setting that allows the game to automatically coat your weapon with poison every time the timer runs out, as long as there are poison potions still in the inventory. Adding durability should just be a case of coating it with anti-oxidants. A one-time thing.

Speaking of which you should probably allow the character to upgrade his own equipment with his blacksmithing skill. It would be nice to carbonize your sword, or add a layer of tin.

That said, there should probably be materials like Mithril or some fantasy material you can come up with. They don't have to be harder to acquire than standard materials and it would be nice to hammer your sword in with some magical pounded crystal for lightning damage or what have you.

It would be cool if you could learn new plans (I dont mean schematics) from other characters in the game, by apprenticing as a blacksmith or finding some old hermit in a cave who teaches you how to brew some survivability potions that kept him alive all these years living in the wilderness (which he himself learned how to make the hard way). Learning a bunch of plans could open up the possibility to research a new plan from one of the game's engineers, like for instance knowledge of bowmaking and mechanical pulleys could open up research for a crossbow.

 

[Fez]

I know. I meant it in a " how the fuck that's gonna work on that door" way. In FO that was a dynamite stick - no questions about how that would work. In Arcanum it was something you put on the floor, and I don't recall any traps inventory items in IE.

Ah, I see what you mean. Well as long as you make it look like a pile of random junk and string/rope/wire, it should fit most things. You could make it a wrapped up bag/kit with a symbol on it. Then no one would see the components and you'd only need different symbols to denote each type. It'd be easy to identify them that way too.

 

[Volourn]

"Alchemy. Your game is incomplete without it."

VD is glad to know this. You are his hero for telling him his game needs alchemy.

http://www.rpgcodex.com/screenshot.php? ... system.jpg

 

[Human Shield]

I've never really liked potions or other single-use items in games. I always to complete something without them a few times thinking I mite need it later and ending the game with piles and piles of unused stuff.

I'd like to use the potions that I would use be limited in how many I can hold and have the option to instantly buy or make them when I rest or enter a town.

In this way potions from being fucking annoying item management to paying for constant stat or ability boosts. So a speed potion could be in your reserves to give a minor bonus to certain turns in combat until you recharge it by buying or making more. I think this is a better way to work potions or else I would constantly reload and never use them. And the alchemy skill would be easier to work with.

Set an exploding potion as a weapon and set ammo reserves and your character would build up to that when ever resting. So alchemists would be less annoying to play.

I would like to see spying items. A spyglass could be used in some areas to get feedback on enemy locations and building layout and could give a minor bonus if you try and sneak in.

Lots of uses for rope; a 'glowstick' potion that makes light; nets and traps.

Past alchemy potions, without high-magic you can't have a lot of crazy items, people in Rome threw up and eat more because it was so boring back then...

 

[Vault Dweller]

Alchemy. Your game is incomplete without it. A character should be able to learn alchemy or herbalism and use it to concoct potions to temporarily coat his weapon with poison, add durability, or permanently harden his equipment.

Alchemy is in. If you saw that character screen I posted earlier, that's one of the skills.

Adding durability should just be a case of coating it with anti-oxidants. A one-time thing.

There is no concept of durability in the game. I made a thread long time ago, and most people felt that repairing items is a chore, while crafting something is fun. Can't say that I disagree.

Speaking of which you should probably allow the character to upgrade his own equipment with his blacksmithing skill. It would be nice to carbonize your sword, or add a layer of tin.

I guess you haven't seen that screen then. You can upgrade your equipment in a variety of ways: from making a new blade from an expensive ore to balancing a blade.

That said, there should probably be materials like Mithril or some fantasy material you can come up with.

Different ore deposits, from bronze to mithril.

It would be cool if you could learn new plans (I dont mean schematics) from other characters in the game

You can. While you can make a new blade from better ore by yourself, you need to be taught different techniques. Balancing for example reduces AP cost by 1, so you have to work to get that one.

You could make it a wrapped up bag/kit with a symbol on it. Then no one would see the components and you'd only need different symbols to denot each type. It'd be easy to identify them that way too.

Great idea. Thanks.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Thinking ahead of yourself, are you?

 

[Fresh]

VD, you might wanna take a look at WTC88159 - Arms & Equipment Guide [162 p] if you havent already. There´s a shit/caravan-load of items in that one.

 

[Claw]

VD must really enjoy telling people "Already done" when they suggest stuff.

Hmm, how about stealing WoW's sharpening stone? Instead of forcing the player to sharpen it manually every time though, it could just add a small damage bonus because your character keeps his blades really sharp.

 

[Vault Dweller]

VD must really enjoy telling people "Already done" when they suggest stuff.

Well, we did put a lot of thoughts into it, and then I had many discussions via emails with some folks here, who helped me to polish what I had and get rid of something stupid or not very interesting elements. So, all the "easy to think of" stuff is already in.

Hmm, how about stealing WoW's sharpening stone? Instead of forcing the player to sharpen it manually every time though, it could just add a small damage bonus because your character keeps his blades really sharp.

Too easy for players. Basically it becomes a charm that you carry around to get +1 damage or whatever. Instead we have metal tempering techniques (something like Damascus steel) that gives your blade a nice edge and/or allow you to cut through armor more easily. Such techniques must be taught by someone, and needless to say that just like the secret of Damascus steel, these techniques are kept in secret. The skill requirement to learn them is high too.

 

[Saran]

Christ the amount of thought that has gone into this game is enough to put most other devs to shame.

Apart from the faction names and a bit of fine tuning, what else is there to sort out?

Im trying not to sound like an arse kisser, but after reading the last few threads about it and seeing the lenghts you are going too to make this game an immersive experiance i have to say im probably looking forward to this more than any other CRPG.

And yes, thats despite my graphic whoreish tendencies!

 

[Sol Invictus]

You should add lighting, dammit! Like Fallout.

 

[Fresh]

Offtopic but I dont like the red cross on the char sheet-screenie. Its looks too "modern" to me.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Christ the amount of thought that has gone into this game is enough to put most other devs to shame.

Thanks.

Apart from the faction names and a bit of fine tuning, what else is there to sort out?

Tons of things. Combat mechanics, attacks via dialogues (neck snapping in PST), banking system, etc. It's all done, just needs to be polished and tweaked. I'll make some threads when I have time to discuss that, and when I post some screens to illustrate my points.

... to make this game an immersive experiance i have to say im probably looking forward to this more than any other CRPG.

Thanks again. Hopefully the game would be fun to play.

You should add lighting, dammit! Like Fallout.

What kind? Chain Lightning? Grease Lightning? Anyway, I will see what we can do.

Offtopic but I dont like the red cross on the char sheet-screenie. Its looks too "modern" to me

Well, the concept of a cross is very old, so we can stretch it a bit and use it as a medical symbol for some weird reasons. At least everyone understands that it's something medical.

 

[Sol Invictus]

What kind? Chain Lightning? Grease Lightning? Laughing Anyway, I will see what we can do.

You know, in Fallout there's a kind of ambient glow around your character and the rest of the world is sorta dimmed out. At night, it's darker, and your character and the few tiles surrounding him are contrasted against the background. The game would look much better if your character had that sort of ambient light around him, and you can do the same for several other ambient light sources in the game, like lamps or candles. It shouldn't be too difficult given that you're using a tile-based system, and games as old as Ultima VI had this nifty graphical feature. It'd lend a lot of immersion to the game.

 

[PennyAnte]

Lemmie see ...

I like normal tools - hammers, saws, not for themselves but because they enable interactions with the game environment - chop down a door, gather wood to burn something, i donno.

I think you've probably got enough to "do" with alchemy.

One idea that might be neat are various giveaway objects. You might be able to get a slight advantage talking to a female NPC if you have a flower as a gift - not a romantic thing, just a gift. Or a toy for a kid, who might tell you, if you win the child over with a present, that they see a guard go away from their post at a certain time while they play.

Basically, other stuff to bribe with besides money. Maybe it could be used beyond that, I'm not sure.

Maybe it would be cool to be able to bribe with anything you have - that cool sword you used all your l33t skills to create might be worth more to a soldier than some given amount of gold.

I've strayed from a strictly item answer though, sorry. On the other hand items are not exciting in themselves, it's what they let you do in the game that matters - kill people, heal them, influence them, break things, make things. The activities are what's important. Items are just the passport.

So I guess I'd rather answer the question by considering: what would I enjoy doing in this virtual playground? Then I'd ask what items and skills I should use to enable them for the player.

You've already got a lot of good stuff. Like you said, IMPROVING things is fun, but watching them DEGRADE and REPAIRING them is not. So you build the appropriate item and skill sets. Anyway, I'll stop getting philosophical.

Is there a web site or anything yet? So I can stop digging up threads for info?

 

[Spazmo]

Maybe it would be cool to be able to bribe with anything you have - that cool sword you used all your l33t skills to create might be worth more to a soldier than some given amount of gold.

This is an interesting idea if applied to bartering in general. The price the PC can get for a particular item from a particular NPC could be modified by the NPCs interest in that item. As PennyAnte says, soldiers like weapons more. Loremasters could pay more for artifacts. Educated noblemen pay more for books than illiterate peasants and so on.

Which reminds me, does Age of Decadence have FO-style bartering or the simple money-driven trading seen in most RPGs? It seems to me like bartering would work better in a setting with a splintered Empire that likely can't back up its currency anymore.

And that reminds me in turn, will Imperial money be worthless to certain people (outside of or on the fringes of the Empire), or will coins be valuable to everyone anyways simply for the gold/silver they're made of?

 

[miserychick]

Just because they were mentioning thief-y stuff earlier: When I play a Rogue in D&D, I use alot of the Alchemical items, like Tanglefoot bags, or Thunderstones. I think someone already mentioned caltrops.