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Item prefixes

Chris Koźmik

Silver Lemur Games
Developer
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
415
Quite a simple one, but oh well. I need around 5 tiers (can be more, actually it's best if more) of quality of items prefixes for fantasy RPG. One set of prefixes for weapons and one set for armors (can be shared, it's more like if you have a prefix that is good for weapons only it counts).

I would prefer those not to use trivial materials like Bronze/Iron/Steel (althrough exotic ones might be good I suppose... but still there is the problem with leather armor which is supposed to be made of leather and chainmail which is supposed to be made of some sort of metal). Preferably the prefix should be universal, for example "Sharp Mace" makes no sense. The best prefix would be something abstract that can fit many weapon/armor types.

Example (weapons):
1) NO PREFIX *Long Sword/Axe/Mace/etc*
2) Fine *Long Sword/Axe/Mace/etc*
3) Excellent *Long Sword/Axe/Mace/etc*
4) Victorious *Long Sword/Axe/Mace/etc*
5) Ultimate *Long Sword/Axe/Mace/etc*

Example (armors, shield, helmets, etc):
1) NO PREFIX *Chainmail/Helmet/Small Shield/etc*
2) Good *Chainmail/Helmet/Small Shield/etc*
3) Excellent *Chainmail/Helmet/Small Shield/etc*
4) Defensive *Chainmail/Helmet/Small Shield/etc*
5) Royal *Chainmail/Helmet/Small Shield/etc*

Don't pay too much attention to the examples above, those are somewhat lame.


I'm also interested in the theory and overall discussion regarding prefixes in general, so feel free to stray off topic :)
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,450
High tier items should tie in with the game's lore - at a certain point you reach the limit of what can be achieved by a talented craftsman, and at this point you usually use any of the following - rare metals/alloys with unparalleled properties (e.g. mithrill ore, iron taken from meteorites) , ancient craftsmen and crafting techniques that result in higher quality product (e.g. dwarven worksmanship, if dwarves are the stereotypical hardworking, smithing type in your game), magical enchantments by powerful beings (wizards, gods). For the really powerful items, feel free to combine all three. It's probably best to write down the entire history for such gear, because it's very likely to be the kind of stuff that is referred to in legends.

Remember there can also be negative modifiers - useful if you want to design some low level encounters, or when you want to have wear and tear on your equipment, or you hate people and will feature monsters that damage equipment.
Players will usually avoid using gear that is described as subpar quality, but it can be fun to make this a valid consideration.

Here's an example of what I have in mind:

Damaged tier - these items were used, misused or left to the elements and their performance is subpar. Some characters will use them out of necessity, other simply do not care (undead).
1. Broken / Dented / Cracked - items that suffered major abuse and should only be used in desperation, might be better to just toss them away. Require major repairs, replacing critical parts or reforging (if such repairs are even possible).
2. Chipped / Rusty / Worn / Bent - items show sign of wear, can be brought back to standard grade with little maintenance. "Rusty" is a good way to denote wear on metallic items, chipped works for bladed weapons, worn can work for non-metallic armors,
bent for shafted weapons.

Standard tier - the default quality of an items, determined by the skill of the manufacturer. Damaged items when repaired will be restored to their standard grade, one of the following:
(at your discretion: if a fine weapon was too beaten up, all the way down to dented tier, it may or may not be possible to restore it all the way to its original fine tier)

3. Shoddy / Unbalanced - prototypes, stuff made by trainees, or a decent smith rolled a critical failure. Can pass for a standard item at a distance, but you feel something is off when you wield it/put it on.
3. Standard - quality that is expected from a competent craftsman tasked e.g. to provide gear for the local garrison. Do not use any affixes here.
4. Fine / Balanced / Sharp - this stuff was custom made for a discerning buyer (who was charged appropriately for the task). The armor was fitted to match that person, the weapon was balanced just as they like it.
5. Masterwork - this tier represents the peak of craftsmanship not assisted by supernatural means - there is usually only a handful of craftsmen skilled enough to produce this level of quality, and they won't do it for just anybody. These items were made for the rich and powerful,
and every such item will most likely have its story.

Supernatural tier - here we have items that were "improved" through supernatural means.
6. Meteorite, Mithrill, Adamantium, Orichalcum, Green Steel - whatever you call it, the stuff is rare. If your lore features some kind of rare materials, use them here.
7. Blessed, Majestic, Divine, Enchanted, Arcane, Mythic - items improved by casting magic on it. You can have several grades here, depending on the power level of the being.
You can even differentiate between items improved by divine blessings and powerful wizards. So which one is better? Arcane or Majestic? Blessed or Enchanted? All up to you.
If your fantasy world uses rune magic, "Runed" is also a nice affix.

As an afterthought, supernatural enchantments needn't be all beneficial. Perhaps an enemy can curse the player's weapons? Or they become cursed if wielded by an incompatible character type.
If you want the curse removed, you need to ask a specialist.

So, how Isee it it all coming together - let's say we have a mace. It was made of Urmomium, a very rare metal which has to be torn away from the deepest bowels of an active volcano.
It was worked by the king's smith, he was skilled but still a puny manling. He tried his best to beat Urmomium into submission, but not all went according to plan and the balance point is slightly off.
So what we get here is an [Unbalanced] [Urmomium] Mace - the rare metal might give it enough punch that it's still a worthy weapon despite its flawed construction.
Let's say the mace was used to bash in skulls in an epic battle that lasted three days. Where an iron mace on a wooden stick would break and be unusable, the [Worn] [Unbalanced] [Urmomium] Mace
only needs a bit of spit and polish and it can get back to cracking skulls once again.

OR, if it feels easier and more elegant for you to code, replace the affix [Unbalanced] with [Worn], thus making a [Worn][Urmomium]Mace - if the performance penalty from being worn is greater than being unbalanced, it'll all play out.
The trick is, if the item is repaired, it'll revert to its default [Unbalanced][Urmomium] Mace.

Now, what happens it the proud owner takes a liking of the flawed weapon and decides to enchant it a bit. As above, you can either add an affix [Blessed][Unbalanced][Urmomium]Mace, or you can decide that a minor enchantment is sufficient to counteract the
flawed nature of its construction and the proud owner will now wield a [Urmomium] Mace.

Which way is better? Depends if you want to diddle around with complex crafting systems and itemization, and how rare will rare items be. In the example above, it adds a bit to the storytelling and character to the item if you retain the information about its shoddy worksmanship.
I thik it's a nice touch that makes all those magical materials feel really special, if even a low quality item made of those is desireable for player characters. "You faggots will cream your pants when you'll get your grubby paws on the real thing".

I think it's also a nice way of adding a touch of realism to dungeon crawling. Say you come across an ancient burial crypt. Most of the stuff there will be rusted junk, but perhaps you will find a dented buckler bearing a powerful runic enchantment?
You won't use it straight after picking it off the wall, but if you take the time to find the right craftsman, it can be restored to its former glory (or be a shadow of its former self if you try to be cheap when restoring it).



If you want to check out something that's been implemented, I recommend the first Diablo and Ancient Domains of Mistery.

In Diablo, it goes like this:
You have a base item, e.g. Short Sword with its base stats, damage, swing speed, durability, etc.
The base item can be enchanted with a randomly generated prefix or suffix. The affix can be beneficial, or add a malus.
Check this site for reference:

https://diablo.gamepedia.com/Affixes_(Diablo_I)

For example, with mods that come on weapons, you can randomly generate a bent great axe with a damage modifier in the range[-50% to -75%], or a massive great axe with a positive modifier of [90-110%].
That one is a prefix, so there is still a chance to generate a positive (or negative) affix, for example "of the ages" which means the item never has to be repaired.
This never happened in Diablo 1, but perhaps in your game, a Bent Great Axe of the Ages can be a desireable item?

With ADOM it's a bit more comples. The items are made of a specific base material - for metalic weapons this is: iron, mithril, eternium which influences the base stats. Typically, two eternium daggers will have similar stats, but it's possible to find an oddity that is slightly better or slightly worse than standard.

Next, the item can have modifiers, some are magical, some refer to its quality, like so:
https://ancardia.fandom.com/wiki/Melee_weapon_prefixes

And finally, the weapon can receive penalties or bonuses to its stats when improved by a smith, or when damaged by e.g. monster with corrosive skin.
 
Last edited:

Chris Koźmik

Silver Lemur Games
Developer
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
415
Hmmm, interesting read.

It made me realize that what I look for are 5 tiers of regular items made by craftsmen and sold in regular shops. Non magical, without special perks, just regular swords, armors and the like. Those also can't be below standard quality (I loathe RPGs where part starts with rusty swords and the like, they are supposed to be on a quest so at the very least they should start with standard equipment, preferably also with a few magical items).

So, actually, I look for 5 tiers of basic items made by craftsmen of different levels of mastery.
1) Made by a regular craftsman
2) Made by a very good craftsman
3) Made by an expert craftsman
4) Made by a master craftsman
5) Made by one of the best craftsmen in the land
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,450
Ok, so it's more about finding good sounding names.
If you had four tiers, the template would be a natural [no prefix] -> [adjective] -> [comparative] -> [superlative]
As it is, I can see a problem in expressing a meaningful difference between item Tier 2 and Tier 3.

Perhaps you could try something like this:
normal -> fine -> elaborate - > exquisite -> masterwork

This should fit a variety of items and blend well with their names, and I think it expresses a desireable progression in the level of complexity and artistry, though I can see it being problematic before one gets used to the progression:
Is elaborate dagger better than masterwork dagger, or is exquisite dagger the best?

Another idea is to use medieval "ranks":
normal -> footman -> squire -> noble -> king/regal

imo, the previous one reads slightly better, but this progression can also fit a variety of items (Noble Plate Mail, Footman's Arming Sword, Regal Crossbow, Squire's Shortbow, doesn't sound that bad)
and it's a bit more clear (the footman/squire distinction can be debatable, but there's no doubt the king occupies the top spot).
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,662
You may not like this, but the clearest method of communication will be to use the colors/terms that WoW did. Everyone is familiar with them from that game or another that copied them.

Normal (white)
Uncommon (green)
Rare (blue)
Epic (purple)
Legendary (orange)

Even though it isn't realistic, I like the use of materials to distinguish tier. You need to come up with different names for different item types though.

Example:
Deer leather
Buffalo leather
Rhino leather
Basilisk leather
Dragon leather

Bronze sword
Iron sword
Steel sword
Silver sword
Adamantium sword
 

Chris Koźmik

Silver Lemur Games
Developer
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
415
Perhaps you could try something like this:
normal -> fine -> elaborate - > exquisite -> masterwork
Yeah, something like that would be best I suppose. Does anyone have more along those lines?

That's how these sound:
Short Sword
Fine Short Sword
Elaborate Short Sword
Exquisite Short Sword (I think it's best if no two tiers start with the same letter)
Masterwork? Short Sword (I think the last one sounds odd)

BTW, right now I'm using a mixture of the two systems you described. No prefix, Fine, Exquisite, Knight's, Glorious, Royal


You may not like this, but the clearest method of communication will be to use the colors/terms that WoW did. Everyone is familiar with them from that game or another that copied them.

Normal (white)
Uncommon (green)
Rare (blue)
Epic (purple)
Legendary (orange)
The thing is I need several tiers of the Normal (white) tier. I'm looking for prefixes to distinguish regular shop items. So, all those are kind of white...
 

Zep Zepo

Titties and Beer
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
5,233
1) NO PREFIX ?WEAPON?
2) Fine ?SWORD?
3) Excellent ?SHARP SWORD?
4) Victorious ?PUZZLE SWORD?
5) Ultimate ?THAL SWORD?

:)

Zep--
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,662
The thing is I need several tiers of the Normal (white) tier. I'm looking for prefixes to distinguish regular shop items. So, all those are kind of white...
I think you are wrong about your game needing several shitty tiers of weapons that players won't use as soon as they find an uncommon one.
 

Lonely Vazdru

Pimp my Title
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,665
Location
Agen
Going with sword and chainmail as examples :

Generic sword
Good sword
Remarkable sword
Master crafted sword
Deadly sword

Basic chainmail
Fine chainmail
Sturdy chainmail
Heavy duty chainmail
Adamantine chainmail
 

CreamyBlood

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,392
Well, anyone that says 'armors' in the plural is wrong. I think that's like a modern thing since Diablo 1 or something. It's like a chinese guy saying 'I have a bunch of informations for you'.

You could say something like, 'I have some armour you might be interested in'.

Or, 'I have a room full of armour'.

But you never say 'armors', or in the Kings English (stolen from the French) 'armours'. It's just WRONG. Are you chinese or ESL? No? Then don't ever put the letter S after the word armor.

Now that we got that out of the way. It's really simple.

Laser Blaster Mk I
Laser Blaster Mk II
Laser Blaster Mk III

I prefer a suffix over a prefix and at least nobody brought up purples or oranges or whatever. It helps in your code and classes but should be obvious to the player.

For example, colours are meaningless but so is the difference between Exquisite and Masterfull.

I think it needs to fit into what is obvious to the player first, then within the context of the game if it makes it apparent.

For example, I never really knew what 'Masterwork' meant in D&D games, is it one step before a +1 dagger or one after? I still don't know.


Dragon vs Basilisk, which is better and why?

From a generic point of view, if things aren't all spelled out in your game with playing or lore dumps, I'd say Vazdrus are mostly to the point. Plus, they are just strings, you can modify them later if it makes sense to whatever you're creating.
 

Gregz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
8,620
Location
The Desert Wasteland
I never liked the constraint of having only two modifiers, based upon a prefix and a suffix.

I like Divine Divinity's system, there can be abilities granted, boosted, and other bonuses which can only be revealed after the item is identified.

The next step I'd like to see is perhaps using color coding to signify especially powerful items (Borderlands), tool tips, or other notifications allowing the player to notice an exceptional item. Zangband's random artifact generator is very rich, it's a good example I think. It expands potential item modifiers well beyond a simple prefix/suffix.

Naming conventions are a far less interesting discussion, although I realize it's a problem that must be addressed.
 

Chris Koźmik

Silver Lemur Games
Developer
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
415
I think you are wrong about your game needing several shitty tiers of weapons that players won't use as soon as they find an uncommon one.
But what if they don't find any? It's for regular shop stuff, not for random loot. The player needs to have an option to acquire a plain Battle Axe in a shop, sure, it will be not needed in most cases, still, I feel the player needs to have access to all the basic necessities regardless of RNG for any stage of the game.
Escpecially, if those regular items do not pollute the random loot pool but just sit quietly in the corner of a shop I see no harm in having those as a viable option for a player.
 

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