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Is Difficulty just a myth?

Am I right or what?

  • Your babies or bust.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sorry, I'm illiterate.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I was gonna flame/troll your thread but since you were nice enough to add this option I'll just spar

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Introdeker

Novice
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
9
Is Difficulty just a myth?

Dedicated gamers are frequently heard complaining about how easy games are nowadays. In this case, “nowadays” seems to mean “since forever”, or at least since the mid 90’s, when I got into contact with some representatives of that honorable group. According to the fair laws of the entertainment market, such long lasting complaint ought to have made its way into some niche developer’s ears, and the world would have been graced with its first truly hard videogame. Alas, notice of such a blessing hasn’t reached us, so we thought an analysis of the problem of difficulty in videogames might prove rewarding. Why, oh why, aren’t there difficult games? The first step in our harrowing quest was to dissipate the mists and remove the masks which for ages had covered the vile monsters that disguised themselves as Difficulty. Naked and exposed to the unmerciful light of reason, these abominations proved to be nothing but:

1) Randomness
Games with a heavy reliance on luck often appear to be hard. Equally often they also appear to be easy. Most videogame adaptations of D&D serve as examples. Say, you have to roll a 12 in a d20 to hit the enemy. In your first attempt you critically miss and drop your weapon, dying a few turns later. Second time around you get a critical hit and the enemy dies – very easy fight. These aren’t difficult games, just boring techniques to enforce save-and-reload cheating. Other examples are random loot and random stat growth, where the statistical beast allies itself with the long term one (see below).

2) Disguised puzzle
Games which aren’t supposed to have puzzles in their core element (in RPGs, this is battles), often catch players unawares. Our own experience with the original Final Fantasy Tactics, one of the hardest games we ever finished, will clarify the scenario. There was one encounter in the game in which a distant and protected enemy had a very powerful lightning attack which killed any character it targeted. Since he was very distant, we couldn’t reach the enemy before he attacked us multiple times and couldn’t kill him with the majority of our party gone. After a few tries we gave up. This seemed like a dead end, until we found on the internet that one of the previous shops had started selling accessory items which offered complete protection against electrical damage. Up to that point in the game we had never used or needed that kind of protection, weren’t even aware of its existence. But out of a sudden it was mandatory to progress in the game. This isn’t difficulty. They only took a RPG battle, which usually is an open ended puzzle with multiple improvised solutions, and turned it into a traditional puzzle with one right answer. After buying the required protections the encounter posed no difficulty. (Incidentally FFT had some other extremely distressing encounters, which could not be so easily solved.)

3) Long term imbalance
This devious monster misleads players into a sense of security and ease, only to attack them when they least expect it. To illustrate we again call upon our personal experience, this time with System Shock 2. We were playing a psychic and there had been some dire straits but we were managing fine with the aid of consumable items. Until about a third of the game in we suddenly had some very pressing encounters and found ourselves with a very limited supply of said items and no way to acquire more. Loading even our earliest save from an hour or so back didn’t help any. Despair and curses were our last resource, before again turning to the internet for help in understanding what we had done wrong. As it transpired, our mistake was in character creation, by choosing the worst class. We couldn’t have known that and the game had created a legitimate expectation that we would be able to finish it after progressing for hours with that play style. Instead we found ourselves for the first and last time locked in a game. Restarting with a marine, which the almighty internet reported as the best class, gave us a much easier time and allowed us to finish the game without serious problems. This isn’t difficulty, it’s just bad design.

Diluted versions of this problem are very common. There are, for instance, games which induce you to develop mages focused on hexes only to inform you at the end that all high level creatures are practically immune to such effects. The player couldn’t know this and will have to wade through the more challenging areas with an inapt kitchen knife wilder. Tough luck, says the designer. The wronged pup responds with torrents of insults.

4) Short term imbalance
This is usually just the game telling you to grind some more and come back later. A hypothetical example: you have 10 magic missiles but they only hit one enemy at a time. With no crowd controlling abilities, you are forced to fight twenty goblins. With 5 missiles you kill 5 goblins before they reach you. You kill 5 more in close range, but lose a third of your health. Now you’re out of special abilities and will inexorably die to the onslaught of the remaining 10 goblins. What to do? Well, nothing. Either the game allows you to gain an upper hand and return or you’ll really find yourself in the clutches of one of the preceding chimeras.

Conclusion
Crestfallen, we had to abandon our quest and return empty handed. There were no hard games and there would never be hard games as long as these remained classified as entertainment. But, intrepid reader, if on your own wanderings you have met and slain the fabled beast Difficulty (in the narrow context of RPGs, please) do step up and earn the rightful praise of the world.

P.S. There might be yet another sense for difficulty, analogous to what we mean when we say that Stephen King is a truly horrifying author. In this sense a game is deemed difficult not for its challenge, but for its badness. It was not unusual for a gamer to curse his fate for having saddled himself with the endless drudgery of Vampire: Bloodlines, and be heard complaining “why, oh why, is this game so hard to play?” Similarly, an unsympathetic reader might term this piece a very difficult read. In this usage, I’m afraid, difficulty is all too real.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,054
Location
Platypus Planet
Most games rely on bullshit, cheapness and cheating enemies (enemies who don't play by the same rules as the player) to be "difficult", yes. The RPG genre is probably the worst offender right after strategy games. This is a sad fact that must be accepted.
 

Xor

Arcane
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
9,345
Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
I don't feel like giving a serious response to your post for numerous reasons.

Also, you must suck at games because Final Fantasy Tactics is fucking easy.
 

Mangoose

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
25,135
Location
I'm a Banana
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
I read your previous thread on Character Development, and again you make the same mistake. You're taking examples of bad implementation and inducing that the general concept is flawed.

What you've done is analyze 4 different cases. What you have to do is prove that these 4 cases represent ALL of the possible cases of games. Which you haven't done.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
1,246
Introdeker said:
it’s first truly hard videogame
I shall not stand such wanton offence against the English tongue. Repent ye and correct thy mistake, only then shall I read further.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,286
Location
Ingrija
It really comes down to 3 and 4. When it's hard, grind some and come back. Can't grind? lol u r fukked.

God bless random encounters, and curse upon ye level scaling blasphemy.
 

Boddler

Educated
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
95
RR.jpg
 

ElectricOtter

Guest
youa re dumb





That said, if there is no "difficulty" at all in games, explain:

1. Losing all your food after the Point of No Return in Exile 2

2. Getting your ass handed to you by Mantises early on in Fallout

3. TFTD. The whole game.

4. HoMM games have a great deal of difficulty on the higher levels

5. Fighting Unbound in Geneforge 5

6. DooM. Nightmare. Plutonia. Episode 4. Hell Revealed 2. I could go on.
 

gothemasticator

Scholar
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Messages
121
Games have indeed been getting easier since the late nineties at least. And there's a clear reason: to sell more games.

In 1986, computer games were only sold to geeks. Math and brainpower was what the niche consumer demographic craved. And the people creating the games were as geeky as the consumers. So, everybody conspired together to create games that were punishing, smart, and had steep learning curves.

Now, gaming is a largely console-driven industry that has in individual recent years grossed more money than the movie industry. Brainy math-geeks are no longer the target demographic (although we have left an indelible imprint on some genres). Any guy off the street is the target demographic.

So, you get games like Mass Effect. I am no damn good at actiony games - bad reflexes. But I finished the game on veteran. How? The game helps me. They made it easy.

Sure, in order to maximize sales, game devs also include a difficulty slider that usually increases your enemy's health disproportionately. This appeals to the "hardcore" gaming crowd without forcing them to start using their brains or learning math. Apart from longer battles or the need to preserve healing resources more carefully, difficulty sliders don't actually make the games more difficult. Same game, helping the player win with corridors, pop-up cover, overly simplistic stat systems in which it doesn't actually matter where you put your points...

OP is not correct.
 

Serious_Business

Best Poster on the Codex
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
3,911
Location
Frown Town
Hmm since the local faggots are being the usual faggots and I am a marginal elite person, I will read this post for great justice, and also because intelligence is always overlooked (although stupidity also is, but that's why intelligence is stupid)... here we go this better not be dissapointing

...

Well we find that this is shit, yes.
There's some fair points though, and we'll give you points for the efforts. But obviously, we find that this is too pretentious to warrant that much of an extensive critique.
We'lll say this, you haven't really refuted the concept of difficulty. Perhaps, in some ways, "difficulty" as you understand it can be translated to "complexity". The premise of your argumentation is that we find that difficult games aren't being made anymore - and you attempt to prove that this is false, because there were no difficult games to begin with.

Perhaps so, but even then, it would be difficult to argue that recent games haven't been "dumbed down" (i.e. that there is a deep difference between new and old games, if not in terms of difficulty, then in terms of something else). Ultimately all games are easy once you grasp the concept, and also they all have a save-reload feature, which helps. But grasping the concept can be "difficult" in itself. Try playing Victoria - for an old vet like us, it's easy, but when you don't know how to play it, you have to figure it out, and there lies the complexity. All new games are pretty much pick-and-play affairs, which turns off the veteran players, because they have nothing to figure out. This is the complaint that's made regarding new games. In a way, you're right that difficulty isn't really the point of it.

But we could have been more direct and simply say that your text doesn't encompass all the notions of challenge, but we prefer to be more subtle about it. Also, we believe that you should have stated that you're only talking about RPGs - indeed, we'd actually strongly agree with you that rpgs aren't very challenging affairs, except perhaps the old dungeon crawls (which you probably didn't play, then go try Wizardry 4 and we'll talk again)
 

Destroid

Arcane
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
16,628
Location
Australia
I've always thought of RPGs as a genre that requires a certain amount of cooperation from the player to get the most out of the experience.

Difficulty in most RPGs comes from combat encounters. There are a variety of ways you (as the player) can make these combat encounters easier or harder, it is really up to your judgment about how you wish to play the game.

In your example of the psychic and the marine - this clearly showed that you were not interested in playing a hard game and could not handle the difficulty of playing the psychic. Thus you selected the marine and completed the game on 'easy mode'. The only downfall here is that the user was not informed - if the psychic had a note saying it was more difficult than the marine all would be well.

EDIT: I didn't finish my initial thought. What I mean is, the player understands they get stronger as they fight and they have access to unlimited fights - this means that you can spend time and gain in game power. It is up to the player to decide if they want to do this or not. But again, you might as well complain that Doom is easy on 'easy' if you knowingly exploit this mechanic. Games that revolve around this mechanic (FF etc) are stupid, don't play those.
 

Tenhi

Novice
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
14
Difficulty is just like salt. Without, it's tasteless. Too much, it tastes like cock. Just the right amount, and any codexer will suck it.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
Gragt said:
Tenhi said:
Difficulty is just like salt. Without, it's tasteless. Too much, it tastes like cock nigger's balls.

Fix0rz

Well, if you want to substitute the words like that so they refer to something you're more familiar with, then I don't think he'll have a problem with it.
 

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