Sigourn
uooh afficionado
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2016
- Messages
- 5,672
this thread is embarrassing to read...
Is it? Or is it that you guys can't admit you have a problem?
this thread is embarrassing to read...
Make it cRPG then. PnP has excuse of having limited resources to spend on mechanics and GM always having the last word if the mechanics proves unsatisfactory or insufficient.^ What that really describes is a good system. But a TRVE RPG definition that excludes D&D is p. funny
Doesn't really make sense.PS:T isn't a real rpg.
You start the game without knowing so much background and even without the name
Exactly.
I could extend my definition of RPG further while encompassing my previous point: a game that, through your actions, allows you to develop an unique personality that is recognized by the game world and affects how you interact with it.
Based on this:
- Deus Ex isn't an RPG.
- Final Fantasy games aren't RPGs.
- Skyrim isn't an RPG.
- The Witcher isn't an RPG.
- ULTIMA 1 isn't an RPG.
- Baldur's Gate is an RPG.
- Fallout is an RPG. Fallout 3 and 4 are just really poor RPGs.
- Morrowind is an RPG, but again, one that is very shallow in how you develop a personality.
- Planescape: Torment is an RPG.
I think I'm getting close to something.
lmaoMake it cRPG then. PnP has excuse of having limited resources to spend on mechanics
Me too.lmaoMake it cRPG then. PnP has excuse of having limited resources to spend on mechanics
in what niggerworld do you live? FFS
I wanna live in that world where CRPGs systems get at least 10% of the design effort and playtesting that any pnp goes through
JC Denton is just the code name. His real name is Adahn Jenson.
Aaand cRPGs have no intelligence creating stuff on the fly, no magic, and no fragmentary depictions and descriptions that can be fleshed out as needed or left alone. They do have a lot of raw computing power to crunch shit. Draw your own conclusions.Aaaand? PnP NPCs can have a full character sheet when it matters, or half a character sheet, or one skill. It's the magic of having intelligence creating stuff on the fly. Besides it's irrelevant whether everyone has a full character sheet if them stats are not being used in any way. They have a full character sheet more for the sake of programmer convenience than anything.
The real question is... are action RPG's really RPG's? I always argue they're not really part of the genre, despite the name.
First of all games pretty much never react to personality.
- Deus Ex allows you to express yourself via actions (for example propensity for deadly force) and the game does react.
- Morrowind has completely wooden character interaction, but it nevertheless has reputation system and some individual quest scripting. It also slavishly adheres to systemic symmetry.
- Witcher allows a lot self-expression given that it all needs to fit specific character. I wouldn't class it as cRPG because of stat system only affecting Geralt, not because it doesn't allow self expression - it does.
- Skyrim, as shallow and streamlined as it can be, gives you opportunities to make lasting choices in quests (mainly daedric ones, but also DB and some others) and generally recognizes, if superficially, a lot of stuff you do.
- BG1 doesn't really allow for much self expression beyond mentally impaired karma system. You can be selfless good or stupid evil. Yay. I'm pretty sure binary choice doesn't really count as unique personality. Pretty much all of the above already wreck BG1 in terms of RPing (no need to pull out FO or PS:T for that), and no, biowarean dialogue "choices" don't count, besides, Skyrim has those too.
- How about Wizardry 8 - by your own criteria is it an RPG?
- Deus Ex allows me to express myself via actions as much as Excitebike allows me to express myself. And the game reacts by punishing me.
- Morrowind has shit character interaction, but at least and outsider can look at me playing and figure out what kind of personality my character has based on what he does.
- The Witcher, unlike Morrowind, has me acting as Geralt almost all of the time.
- Skryim barely gives you any opportunities to make meaningful choices, and if by "superficially" you mean "random greetings from NPCs", you are right. But random greetings hardly constitute consequences to my actions. I murder the Emperor of Tamriel, and no one bats an eye. And there's little personality building in Skyrim when 99% of the quests boil down to "do it like the game wants you to do them, or don't start the quests at all". Morrowind at least gives me the opportunity to fail quests, turn them down, or complete them in different ways.
- BG1, for as little as I played it (around 10 hours), was more interesting than Skyrim has in regards to developing a personality.
You can choose, for example, how to handle JoJo or Johnny.- Deus Ex allows me to express myself via actions as much as Excitebike allows me to express myself.
Yes, but you decide HOW you act as Geralt. Who you side with, what you do, how do you solve dilemmas that appear, etc.- The Witcher, unlike Morrowind, has me acting as Geralt almost all of the time.
Most daedric quests give you opportunity to do that. It's usually a tradeoff between power and not doing something heinous - Grimoire of Pestilential Thought style. It's also not devoid of Morrowind's style freeform decisions, despite streamlining - for example you can go with the cultists' plan only to betray and slaughter them in Namira quest.- Skryim barely gives you any opportunities to make meaningful choices, and if by "superficially" you mean "random greetings from NPCs", you are right. But random greetings hardly constitute consequences to my actions. I murder the Emperor of Tamriel, and no one bats an eye. And there's little personality building in Skyrim when 99% of the quests boil down to "do it like the game wants you to do them, or don't start the quests at all". Morrowind at least gives me the opportunity to fail quests, turn them down, or complete them in different ways.
And how do you even develop one in BG1? Some examples? My memory might be blurry but I don't think it's that blurry.- BG1, for as little as I played it (around 10 hours), was more interesting than Skyrim has in regards to developing a personality.
Citation needed on the DE punishment. You should at least be able to deduce what will happen when you do this or that.
Although I'm kind of disappointed that the in-game restriction about killing only matters when you're in UNATCO.
Morrowind's character interaction is alright, it has lots of factions and the social minigame can be helpful at times. The game is designed to be broken, yes, but it's a single player game, so who cares?
Still, Geralt does what you tell him. In a way, you *are* Geralt. You can decide how the game plays and it changes dramatically, especially in TW2. Who cares if you can't create your own self insert?
What if your personality puts you in trouble or costs you something?To me it is important to be in full control of my character's personality to define a game as a roleplaying game.
Would not fucking everything that moves help?And Geralt is far too womanizer and we can't do anything about it.
You can't create your own character, you are always JC Denton
Would not fucking everything that moves help?
No one forces you to.