Gold Box I played the NES port of Pool of Radiance for a bit; this game is terrible

[Butter]

Pools of Darkness came out before Wiz7. Different era.

Dark Sun would be more roughly contemporary (or Ultima Underworld).

The Gold Box games didn't stop with Pools of Darkness. The Dark Queen of Krynn and Buck Rogers: Matrix Cubed both released in 1992, and Unlimited Adventures released in 1993.

 

[Stoned Ape]

The first two CRPGs I played were Bard's Tale for the ZX Spectrum and Pool of Radiance for the C64 on 5.25" floppy. I saved up my allowance along with all the money I got from by birthday and Christmas gifts to buy PoR and the drive, it took me around 18 months. I was 13 when I played PoR and I thought it was incredible at the time, I couldn't imagine a better game ever being released and thoroughly enjoyed mapping out the ruined areas of Phlan and the surrounding locations. Clearing the pyramid on the river and having the blight clear up on the overland map was a particular highlight, while the level-draining undead in the graveyard were a nightmare that still haunt me today.

I remember Curse of the Azure Bonds and Secret of the Silver Blades both being superb and I took my party through all 3 games (while dropping two demi-humans to get a Ranger and Paladin into the party for CotAB). Pools of Darkness was never released on the c64, so I didn't play that until years later on my first PC (a 486 dx50).

I tried playing PoR again a few years ago, and the UI and controls are pretty terrible TBH. I think it's a better idea to play the Savage Frontier duo or the Krynn trilogy as they're far more user friendly.

The Unlimited Adventures version of PoR had some pretty severe bugs when I tried it, so I'm not sure it's really an option unless they've been fixed.

 

[Grauken]

Pools of Darkness came out before Wiz7. Different era.

Dark Sun would be more roughly contemporary (or Ultima Underworld).

The Gold Box games didn't stop with Pools of Darkness. The Dark Queen of Krynn and Buck Rogers: Matrix Cubed both released in 1992, and Unlimited Adventures released in 1993.

It was an aging engine held together by goodwill and duct tape, not a contemporary engine to the likes of Wizardry 7 in any shape or form

 

[kazuya394]

Damn, you signed up just to shit on roguey for his actions 5 years ago? That's pretty messed up, there's gotta be a statute of limitations on video game trash talk.

I'm not gonna prosecute him, though maybe I should^^

It's all in good fun now, isn't it boys?

 

[kazuya394]

Give me a Gold Box game of any kind over the mainstream Jrpg incel slop

It's funny that you say that when PoR is about as close as a Western RPG gets to being a jRPG. Same battles every five steps, same mindless autopilot strategies to win 90% of battles without having to think, economy busted in the first 30 mins of the game, etc.

Funny. I thought JRPGs are about being railroaded by the hair of your neck through a ridiculous plot over an inane world, about being forcefed with insufferable 12 years old emo fag characters (who might or might not be wisened 80 years old martial arts grandmasters or 8000 years old dragon princesses, you tell the difference, they still look and behave like tweeners), about nonsensical game mechanics with stats and attributes going into four digits... turns out, it's all about busted economy! Silly me.

Why not both?

 

[kazuya394]

I tried to play the DOS version years ago but couldn't get past the blob-movement with the tiny window. Fortunately the NES port has a nice big window right in the center of the screen, which made it a bit more palatable.

Sure, it comes with its share of dumbing down/streamlining. I couldn't make my own characters; I had to choose from a lengthy list (you still roll stats though) and only up to five. I find the removal of ammo management and the integration of journal entries into the game itself a plus. I didn't get two attacks per round with bows like the rules say I should, but I can't remember if this was a feature in original Pool of Radiance or not, and I can't be bothered to reinstall, roll new characters, buy bows and arrows, and get into a fight to test it out.

Unfortunately the port did not improve the experience by including the Fix command. The interface is as clunky as ever when it comes to buying and selling equipment, training characters, memorizing spells, etc. I was also annoyed by how equipment stats aren't viewable in the game itself, but I managed with my metaknowledge of AD&D.

On the subject of metaknowledge, it would be obnoxious to go through this without looking at maps from a guide, particularly when it comes to quests where you have to clear out a map of all enemies. So much step by step walking, so much mandatory backtracking.

The incredibly miss-heavy combat at the beginning demands the constant use of sleep to Win just to make it tolerable. This results in a massively degenerate fight/rest cycle. Additionally, while "random encounters will disappear after you kill a fixed amount" sounds good on paper, this also encourages a degenerate playstyle of intentionally triggering them (I found out accidentally that leaving search mode on makes them far more likely because moving to a new square takes ten minutes instead of one) and then backing off to a safe area to rest.

It's utterly absurd how you can pay just 5 gold to fix yourself up to your heart's content at an inn (when you're not resting outside for free) but a single casting of cure light wounds at a temple costs 100 gold (!!!!!!!!). Phlan needs a Jesus figure to come down to the temple to take on the money-changers, these guys are ripping everyone off.

It's also lousy how being poisoned makes you incapacitated and the only thing you can do is drag the character to a temple and pay 1000 to cure it. Though of course I didn't do that, I just reloaded. It's also a drag how there's no way to buy any kind of potions or spells; furthermore, potions don't stack, and each character can only have 8 items in their inventory (including the stuff they're wearing) so an inventory can get filled up quickly.

As for combat content, let me put it this way: out of the 24 mandatory fights you have to go through to clear the slums, only two provided a challenge. That's a terrible ratio. The other areas I cleared had far fewer battles, but they also weren't providing enough of interest. There were just two more battles I liked in the rest of what I played (which was clearing Sokal Keep and the library, and eavesdropping on an auction which didn't involve combat at all but wasn't particularly interesting). The most I can say in its favor is that I like how enemies will surrender when it's clear the battle is lost (when can this feature come back?).

Typical PoR encounter design right here.

I don't see the point in playing any further, I imagine the combat and backtracking are only going to get more obnoxious. Perhaps there may be an area or areas later on that will lock you in to prevent degenerate resting, but who cares? Scorpia was correct to call this a boring meat grinder. The crpgers of the 80s and early 90s must have been hard up to play anything resembling a role playing game to tolerate all of this and all the other same-engine clones. The potential was there, but it appears as though no one actually did anything with it. "Strategic" indeed.

Stupid coddled millenial opinion.
Do you get upset that you need to move your feet to walk, too, or that you need to get out bed to shower?

It's not the best game ever, but it's hardly the slog that you make it out to be.

The saddest thing about my generation is that they think fun needs to be spoonfed to them. If you're looking for an experience that does down smooth like a fine wine, or that is going to blow your mind with clever design complexity, why in the hell would you get into 1980's SSI RPGs? This is bleep-bloop age, people, when computers and D&D were for nerds just happy to see a Monster Manual entry come to life a bit, and that they weren't getting shaken down for pocket change by their local chudster.

Just play the game, folks--or don't. Tons of people like it. If you don't, that's fine. But it doesn't mean that your opinion is well-informed or worth a crap. Give me a Gold Box game of any kind over the mainstream Jrpg incel slop that relies more on TnA than anything else. And then there's Starfield--jeezus christ.

My two bits. Still luv ya.

This might be the best first post on the codex. Welcome whose alt are you?

Nah, I'm just playing Pool of Radiance for the first time in 20 years now and his post kinda hit my funny bone. As a researcher by trade, the fact that his post is many years old didn't bother me in the slightest lol.

I'm sure he's a nice guy, once he gets it out of his system.

 

[jaekl]

Oh you're a researcher huh? You should go check out the prosperium and try to figure out what the deal is with Prosper and SDG. They're one life's great mysteries.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I like Prosper's game. It is weird but interesting. SDG... not Stirring Dragon I take it.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Pools of Darkness came out before Wiz7. Different era.

Dark Sun would be more roughly contemporary (or Ultima Underworld).

The Gold Box games didn't stop with Pools of Darkness. The Dark Queen of Krynn and Buck Rogers: Matrix Cubed both released in 1992, and Unlimited Adventures released in 1993.

Pool of Radiance was designed for a Commodore 64 and released in 1988, while the engine remained virtually unaltered through another 8 AD&D Gold Box games, the last of those being Dark Queen of Krynn and Treasures of the Savage Frontier in 1992 (plus two Buck Rogers game with more extensive modifications, MORPG Neverwinter Nights, and the final entry Unlimited Adventures in 1993). In terms of pushing computer technology, the Gold Box engine in 1992 certainly doesn't bear comparison to a game like Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss, which built upon Dungeon Master from 1987 but advanced the gameplay into a 3D environment (albeit with 2D sprites), or even Ultima VII, Wizardry VII, and so forth, which sported new engines and iterative improvements on earlier entries in their series, while having far higher system requirements than the Gold Box games.

 

[Desiderius]

I played PoR in 1993 I think, and was still able to enjoy it. Think I got stuck in Wiz7 and the clue book hadn't come out yet. Finished Underworld and was fascinated by it but it wasn't really a replayable game.

Tried to replay PoR again a couple years ago and had even more trouble getting into it than the other Gold Box games that I haven't been able to either. There *were* significant upgrades in the series but not enough to overcome the limitations as a game to be played now for non-nostalgia/historical reasons.

In contrast *was* able to get into a Realms of Arkania run where I figured out things I hadn't originally and only stopped after discovering how much that game was essentially unfinished. By that point was a day away from completing the game. Likewise found areas of Wizards and Warriors that I never had (and aren't in guides) and kept progressing in overall mastery. Playing Wizardry 8 *right now* and finding things on the 50th run I never had before, new strategies, etc...

Wiz7 is somewhere in the middle. Too solvable, too obscure without a guide on main plot particulars (in Wiz8 that's reserved for retro dungeons). But Gold Box was pre-internet and there were far fewer alternatives so simply figuring out how to play the damn thing/avoiding fail states was a good bit of the fun. Coin-ops *tried* to prevent this so at the time it was something we took for granted. And the writing was more compelling than most contemporary games. Skomp FTW.

 

[Falksi]

Roguey, you played the SEGA Megadrive version of Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday?

Be interested to get your opinion on that.

 

[mondblut]

Pools of Darkness came out before Wiz7. Different era.

Dark Sun would be more roughly contemporary (or Ultima Underworld).

The Gold Box games didn't stop with Pools of Darkness. The Dark Queen of Krynn and Buck Rogers: Matrix Cubed both released in 1992, and Unlimited Adventures released in 1993.

Pool of Radiance was designed for a Commodore 64 and released in 1988, while the engine remained virtually unaltered through another 8 AD&D Gold Box games, the last of those being Dark Queen of Krynn and Treasures of the Savage Frontier in 1992 (plus two Buck Rogers game with more extensive modifications, MORPG Neverwinter Nights, and the final entry Unlimited Adventures in 1993). In terms of pushing computer technology, the Gold Box engine in 1992 certainly doesn't bear comparison to a game like Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss, which built upon Dungeon Master from 1987 but advanced the gameplay into a 3D environment (albeit with 2D sprites), or even Ultima VII, Wizardry VII, and so forth, which sported new engines and iterative improvements on earlier entries in their series, while having far higher system requirements than the Gold Box games.

Dude, you sound like ChatGPT today.

 

[Roguey]

Roguey, you played the SEGA Megadrive version of Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday?

Be interested to get your opinion on that.

I have not. Suppose it's something I should try out eventually.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I wish I could have found it back in the day but shelves of sega games were always iffy in my area. When i hit the used shops in 97+ it was better but no BUCK!

 

[kazuya394]

The first two CRPGs I played were Bard's Tale for the ZX Spectrum and Pool of Radiance for the C64 on 5.25" floppy. I saved up my allowance along with all the money I got from by birthday and Christmas gifts to buy PoR and the drive, it took me around 18 months. I was 13 when I played PoR and I thought it was incredible at the time, I couldn't imagine a better game ever being released and thoroughly enjoyed mapping out the ruined areas of Phlan and the surrounding locations. Clearing the pyramid on the river and having the blight clear up on the overland map was a particular highlight, while the level-draining undead in the graveyard were a nightmare that still haunt me today.

I remember Curse of the Azure Bonds and Secret of the Silver Blades both being superb and I took my party through all 3 games (while dropping two demi-humans to get a Ranger and Paladin into the party for CotAB). Pools of Darkness was never released on the c64, so I didn't play that until years later on my first PC (a 486 dx50).

I tried playing PoR again a few years ago, and the UI and controls are pretty terrible TBH. I think it's a better idea to play the Savage Frontier duo or the Krynn trilogy as they're far more user friendly.

The Unlimited Adventures version of PoR had some pretty severe bugs when I tried it, so I'm not sure it's really an option unless they've been fixed.

Has anyone here played any of the fan-made modules for Unlimited Adventures? Some of them must be rather good, as I've heard there are like 700 or so of them.

I'm actually having so much stupid boomer fun with Pool of Radiance that I have pipe dreams of making my own module with the same creative limitations of that engine (with a few tweaks I'd like to try out).

I have always had a certain fondness for 1st and 2nd edition D&D because they have the closest feel to the old-school sword & sorcery stories I grew up reading, you know, Conan, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, the Deryni series, and the Riftwar Saga (Raymond E. Feist). Plus like Might & Magic 2 & such.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I wish my Dad's module survived. He was using Ultima 3 maps for dungeons. He didn't know you could change out the world map, borders, monsters, fonts, etc etc. and then there is that other engine called something forge or w/e. You can do quite a bit with just frua.

Limitations is one currency more or less.
Limited max items list
Limited max monster roster
Limited graphics you can use.

It isn't as bad as say the limitations of Bard's Tale construction set but they're still there.

I always hoped for a combination of the two. I can't recall if there is a construction set thread discussing all of the various RPG construction utilities.

I'd like to see the NES version of pool of radiance put into goldbox (gfx & all).

I'd note: some say Pirates of Realmspace is Goldbox and the GBA version of Eye of the Beholder.

That's almost like saying Order of the Griffon for Turbo gfx and Warriors of the Eternal Sun is gold box.

If only Ultima 7-8 used a TBT combat similat as WOTES.

 

[octavius]

Has anyone here played any of the fan-made modules for Unlimited Adventures? Some of them must be rather good, as I've heard there are like 700 or so of them.

I played lots of them. Too many, since I "overdosed" and went cold turkey.

Most of the module makers are/were more interested in telling a story than in providing tactical challenges.
Ray Dyer's conversions of the pen&paper modules felt too faithful, with too much boring room descriptions, empty towns with no random encounters or a DM to fill it with something instead of just using menu towns, and overall being too easy. I loved The Keep on the Borderlands, though.
If you want something like the Gold Box games, your best bet is the modules made by Ben Sanderfer aka ProphetSword.
If you play games "for the story" then there's more to choose from.

 

[kazuya394]

Has anyone here played any of the fan-made modules for Unlimited Adventures? Some of them must be rather good, as I've heard there are like 700 or so of them.

I played lots of them. Too many, since I "overdosed" and went cold turkey.

Most of the module makers are/were more interested in telling a story than in providing tactical challenges.
Ray Dyer's conversions of the pen&paper modules felt too faithful, with too much boring room descriptions, empty towns with no random encounters or a DM to fill it with something instead of just using menu towns, and overall being too easy. I loved The Keep on the Borderlands, though.
If you want something like the Gold Box games, your best bet is the modules made by Ben Sanderfer aka ProphetSword.
If you play games "for the story" then there's more to choose from.

This is a fantastic reply, much thanks.

I'm more of a gameplay first guy, so I figure your recommendations are a good starting place.

As a DM, I was always more about world-building and encounters because I found out that most PC's could care less about my masterful and profound narratives. So I think I'd design a digital adventure along the same lines, if I actually got off my fat keister and went about it.

Man, my ideal Gold Box game would be like taking Shadowgate's world-building, and combining that atmosphere with Curse of the Azure Bonds encounters. Hence the term "pipe dream" above.

 

[kazuya394]

I wish my Dad's module survived. He was using Ultima 3 maps for dungeons. He didn't know you could change out the world map, borders, monsters, fonts, etc etc. and then there is that other engine called something forge or w/e. You can do quite a bit with just frua.

Limitations is one currency more or less.
Limited max items list
Limited max monster roster
Limited graphics you can use.

It isn't as bad as say the limitations of Bard's Tale construction set but they're still there.

I always hoped for a combination of the two. I can't recall if there is a construction set thread discussing all of the various RPG construction utilities.

I'd like to see the NES version of pool of radiance put into goldbox (gfx & all).

I'd note: some say Pirates of Realmspace is Goldbox and the GBA version of Eye of the Beholder.

That's almost like saying Order of the Griffon for Turbo gfx and Warriors of the Eternal Sun is gold box.

If only Ultima 7-8 used a TBT combat similat as WOTES.

That should be a thread, the construction set thing. If only I had a teenager's time again...

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I spend too much time marching and punching stuff now in my old age. My free phone time is just before rest at night and this stupid spring forward is screwing me up.

I really only have experience with ACS, some ACK, FRUA, and BTCS. There are others and I never mastered any but dabbled.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I can clearly see some things i don't like. Music, seems you can't see mob status by aiming, camera doesn't center on mob attacking, probably more.

 

[quaesta]

I can clearly see some things i don't like. Music, seems you can't see mob status by aiming, camera doesn't center on mob attacking, probably more.

https://youtu.be/7j3Co_obP2I?t=993 (Goblin Leader surrenders)
Damn I gotta try out Pools now, it always bothers me how gun ho most video game enemies are. Then you have a guy who sees he lost the battle and just gives it up, so he doesn't die. That's attention to detail right there.

 

[Dorateen]

Then you have a guy who sees he lost the battle and just gives it up, so he doesn't die. That's attention to detail right there.

Gold Box games were great for implementing enemy surrenders, and also monsters fleeing the battlefield. Of course, you want to hunt those suckers down so you don't lose the XP.

 

[kazuya394]

I can clearly see some things i don't like. Music, seems you can't see mob status by aiming, camera doesn't center on mob attacking, probably more.

https://youtu.be/7j3Co_obP2I?t=993 (Goblin Leader surrenders)
Damn I gotta try out Pools now, it always bothers me how gun ho most video game enemies are. Then you have a guy who sees he lost the battle and just gives it up, so he doesn't die. That's attention to detail right there.

Yeah, aside from the waiting when you have the huge popcorn mobs of orcs and kobolds, the battle system is underrated.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Then you have a guy who sees he lost the battle and just gives it up, so he doesn't die. That's attention to detail right there.

Gold Box games were great for implementing enemy surrenders, and also monsters fleeing the battlefield. Of course, you want to hunt those suckers down so you don't lose the XP.

Yeah! But tbh, treasure is worth far more here. Magic items and gp value. Now, in FRUA you can edit/make items worth shit xp, not give treasure to mobs other than mundane shit (no gems, jewelry, coins), and edit their xp if you want to create an adventure where leveling up is a challenge. It might be too tedious though.