I need to let some steam off

[Johannes]

RT and TB are just made for different people and lead to very different kind of strategic requirements. In fact it is (should?) a design decision to go for either. For fast combat RT typically works out better especially if the mechanics is not TOO deep. In my opinion when the gameplay has too many options for the player to choose, it should go for TB since then the optimal or even sensible strategy can be easily determined and the game can be enjoyed by employing it.

I don't really see it being that big a divide. Especially if you introduce RTwP and TB with time limits, but that kinda dilutes the point so let's not focus on those.

I disagree with RT not working if it's complex, mainly. Actually, in a game that's ridiculously complex, TB kinda forces you to micromanage each and every little bit, and often that can get dreary when it goes on for long enough. Whereas in RT, no matter how complex the rules you have to focus on the essentials more since you simply cannot manage every detail. Naturally an RT game can focus so much on the exact low-level management that it becomes mostly a game of execution for mediocrely experienced players, but that's not mandatory for a complex RT strategy game.
Of course, how much time one enjoys fine-tuning details varies, and a lot of TBs appeal exactly is the fine, uncompromised control over everything - but if you simply want a game with deep strategy complex rules, I don't agree that one or the other is better suited for that.

Exactly when the game has too many options for the player to choose, the effect of how the minute details work becomes less and less important - the focus will be on those grand scale decisions (instead of small-scale management be it RT or TB), even if the pace in which you need to analyze things is different.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Tb == Micromangement

The more options and more VARIED options that work, the better.

 

[tiagocc0]

I think the AI is a big issue. Also the scale that is used in the game.

AI can be quite good but it won't be able to know what I want it to do. So if a RT game uses AI on my units I will probably get stressed a lot because they are going to do lots of things that I do not want. That's why I don't play Distant Worlds anymore..

Then comes the scale problem, TB needs to have fewer colonies, fewer ships or it becomes boring. At the same time having fewer colonies and ships is actually good because you can feel attached to them, they are a few powerful instead of many weak.
In RT games they usually want to make it feels epic, so they throw tons of units to battle against one another. I kind like of watching it, but I hate it in my games. I don't feel in control of the situation at all.

 

[Captain Shrek]

I think the AI is a big issue. Also the scale that is used in the game.

AI can be quite good but it won't be able to know what I want it to do. So if a RT game uses AI on my units I will probably get stressed a lot because they are going to do lots of things that I do not want. That's why I don't play Distant Worlds anymore..

Then comes the scale problem, TB needs to have fewer colonies, fewer ships or it becomes boring. At the same time having fewer colonies and ships is actually good because you can feel attached to them, they are a few powerful instead of many weak.
In RT games they usually want to make it feels epic, so they throw tons of units to battle against one another. I kind like of watching it, but I hate it in my games. I don't feel in control of the situation at all.

This is all what I believe too.

 

[RK47]

I agree, Bloodbowl should be in real time.

 

[Captain Shrek]

I agree, Bloodbowl should be in real time.

Don't even joke. That like taking cynide.

it works for bloodbowl because we are Patient enough to go through it. Target audience.

 

[hoverdog]

I agree, Bloodbowl should be in real time.

there actually is a RT mode in the cyanide BB game.

unsurprisingly, no one ever plays it.

 

[tiagocc0]

There is one game series that is TB but one of them was made RT and I liked it very much.
Fallout Tactics.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Hushed silence?

 

[tiagocc0]

Yep, there are few who can admire the inner beauty of the ugly child that is Fallout Tactics.

 

[hoverdog]

It was an enjoyable game, but rather disappointing for a Fallout - at least for its time; right now give me Tactics over bethesda's shitbryo crap any time.

 

[tiagocc0]

I usually start my suspension of disbelief right at the start by believing it's not a fallout game. It helps for Tactics and even those FPS.

 

[RK47]

I can't because when I bought it and it played like shit, I had to compare it to Jagged Alliance 2 and found F:T to be a complete waste of time.

 

[tiagocc0]

It was the opposite for me, I tried several times to play JA2 but the combat was too messy for me, I think I still don't quite get it yet.

 

[Captain Shrek]

It was the opposite for me, I tried several times to play JA2 but the combat was too messy for me, I think I still don't quite get it yet.

How did you manage xcom?

 

[tiagocc0]

I don't know, X-Com was quite easy. And I even started playing it when I was a child.
JA2 I tried much later and couldn't handle it.

EDIT: I think it was how open JA2 was. In X-Com it started with just a few aliens and then progressed to more difficult missions. JA2 you have to explore the map, maybe I just went to the wrong place right at the start. Several times.

 

[Captain Shrek]

I don't know, X-Com was quite easy. And I even started playing it when I was a child.
JA2 I tried much later and couldn't handle it.

EDIT: I think it was how open JA2 was. In X-Com it started with just a few aliens and then progressed to more difficult missions. JA2 you have to explore the map, maybe I just went to the wrong place right at the start. Several times.

Then try it again!

It is one of gaming masterpieces.

 

[tiagocc0]

Maybe I should, give it another try.
I could even try to find some cool ideas for a 4x game in it. X-Com had plenty.

 

[RK47]

O wait. Skip it. There's a new version available.

Unlike the original game, Back in Action uses a combat system called "Plan & Go", which combines RTS gameplay with turn-based elements.

"The biggest improvement (outside of the new 3D engine and modern graphics) is that the game can either be played in a new RTS style mode, or the turn based system from the first game, or a hybrid of the two. The hybrid mode shifts from real time to turn based on criteria specified by the player. For example you can play in real time mode until you discover a mine or come across a bad guy. From there you can then switch into the game’s “Plan and Go” combat system. This mode is that you can key actions of your team together which brings out the real strength of the system."

 

[Captain Shrek]

O wait. Skip it. There's a new version available.

Not funny man.

 

[tiagocc0]

Is there any must have mod, or should I try vanilla?

 

[Captain Shrek]

1.13

 

[hoverdog]

Is there any must have mod, or should I try vanilla?

Try vanilla first.

JA 1.13 is one of the best mods in the history of gaming, but it's rather complicated and - for a first time player - unfriendly.

 

[tiagocc0]

I will try with the mod and fallback to the vanilla if needed then.

 

[Captain Shrek]

No. he's right.

Go vanilla first.

I am afraid of the snipers.