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I loved (x) game. Anything similar to it?

Rando Thoughtful

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A thread for the nostalgic & confused.

When I was a wee lad, I played a lot of Warlords Battlecry 2.. or 3.. i'm not sure.

I enjoyed having a tactical map between levels, a hero unit than got stronger over time, a basic RTS in different scenarios, with a massive number of heroes / races / factions to choose from, who all played differently.

I've played all kinds of shit since, I guess the most similar was Blackguards 2, but is there anything closer? Let me know, or ask your own "I loved (x) game" question.

Cheers, Daniel

EDIT: By the way this is a thread for people to ask similar questions about old games they love, not just me banging on about WB2/3 ;D
 
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Fargus

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Warlords Battlecry 3? I also played it since i was a teenager. Nothing really like it. I doubt you will find a proper successor but if you will and it's not shit let me know.
 

spectre

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Probably nothing exactly like it, but I assume you're already tried Spellforce, War Wind and Lords of Magic?\
Maybe Black Moon Chronicles, although iirc that didn't have much rpg elements to show.

I reckon it boils down to this: how important is the RTS part for you? I was never really big into RTS, so battlecry went completely under my radar,
but considering the original Warlords more or less the same subgenre as the Master of Magic and HoMM likes, perhaps
you could find something interesting in this bag? Some less well known games to consider would be Disciples (great atmosphere, only 1 and 2 are good)
and Dominions (really an acquired taste imo, but really nails the "factions that play differently" part).
 
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Fargus

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I thought about recommending Spellforce but you can exclude it safely. It doesn't have WBC3's race and unit variety, your character can only be human and every race you control is given through story progression. You also can't recruit heroes from units that gained enough xp, the heroes are just rune warriors than don't even level up. Nor does it have a global map and your travel to new regions is plot limited. Not a bad game but definitely not it.
 
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Dr Skeleton

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
There's
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...3and-sequel-to-the-warlords-franchise.149196/

it's a huge mod for WBC3, it makes big changes to the original WBC2/3 formula, but it's worth checking out at least, they put insane effort into it, even if I don't like all of the changes.

I'll second Lords of Magic. The world map is turn-based (HoMM style), combat is real time with pause. There's 8 faiths with roughly the same structure: warrior/mage/thief commanders, melee fighters, archers, cavalry units etc, but the quality of units, their playstyle, spells are different for everyone. The game puts a huge emphasis on building your army and gaining experience, you can also use your experienced commanders to train new units before recruiting them, trade for units of other faiths or rescue random high level commanders from neutral dungeons. Your main hero unit is the lord of your faith, if they get killed, it's game over (unless you got another faith to be your vassal earlier, then you can continue as their lord, it's a pretty cool mechanic).
It's a janky game in many areas, but very fun in short bursts, and has a surprising amount of unusual mechanics, like spying, stealing resources, taking and interrogating prisoners, a complex barter system, fame and followers resources. I wish more people tried ripping off Lords of Magic instead of HoMM.

Black Moon Chronicles has the rough outline of an RTS/RPG hybrid, but mostly it's an RTS where your heroes gain levels, you occasionally get to choose options in dialogues RPG-style and influence what happens in the game, but it's sadly just not a good game, the enemies are almost completely passive on the world map, the pathfinding and unit AI is horrible, the strategy comes down to "spam dragons (or giants) + mages, everything else is hopeless". It's technically playable, but I don't recommend anyone actually playing it. Great soundtrack though.

Spellforce 1 is an alright game, but it's mostly linear outside of some RPG sidequests, the RTS progression is 100% linear, first you get humans, then elves, then dwarves, then orcs etc. You choose the class(es) of your hero, but it has no influence on the RTS part in terms of what race you get. Not a bad game, but a very different RTS/RPG hybrid than WBC2.

Dawn of War: Dark Crusade and Soulstorm campaigns are a sort of like Battlecry, I guess? There's hero progression through wargear and retinue, a lot of different factions, a tactical map between RTS missions.

Other than that, maybe Conquest of Elysium? Not even remotely similar to Battlecry in gameplay terms, it's turn-based and has wildly random maps and events, but it has a crazy amount of classes and they all play differently. Most classes get a "hero" commander unit that progresses through learning new rituals and spells, others are a giant troll king who is super hard to kill, but weak to some magic types, a dwarf queen that can't move on the map but spawns new dwarfs every turn, a baron who gets income bonuses and can improve locations on the world map, though all classes get apprentices, captains and summoned monstrous commanders with other abilities and rituals, some far more powerful than your starting hero on max level, like gods, demon lords or great old ones summoned from other planes (you can also visit other planes but it usually ends very badly).
 

Ash

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I was thinking if there was anything truly good and totally unique that stands alone, but nope, absolutely everything good has been cloned and iterated upon (or declined) at least once. As it damn well should.

So, fun game for the codex: try to name a game that is genuinely really good (at least 8/10) that stands alone with no close counterpart.
 

Lucumo

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I was thinking if there was anything truly good and totally unique that stands alone, but nope, absolutely everything good has been cloned and iterated upon (or declined) at least once. As it damn well should.

So, fun game for the codex: try to name a game that is genuinely really good (at least 8/10) that stands alone with no close counterpart.
Sacrifice.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
So, fun game for the codex: try to name a game that is genuinely really good (at least 8/10) that stands alone with no close counterpart.
Obra dinn. (I am aware of golden idol, but it's not quite the same)
Outer wilds.
Rance X (potentially Sengoku as well, but I hear daitetoku might have similar gameplay?)
Invisible inc.

There's other stuff I feel like I should mention, like deus ex or factorio, but those do have some closeish counterparts, and the obvious real purpose of this post is hoping someone will contradict me.
Sacrifice.
I mostly agree on this. Although I think it could be argued that something like Brutal legend is close. I recall there was also an ancient mediteranean themed rts where you could control hero units manually with over the shoulder camera, but I forget its name and if it was any good (so probably it wasn't). Dragon commander is probably the closest actually, since it also has a campaign you can sorta make choices across. But sacrifice definitely stands at the top with a pretty good margin.
 

Ash

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Not played Sacrifice. Looks wild.



Deus Ex's counterparts are System Shock 2 and Arx Fatalis. Yeah a lot of differences too, but they are complex games and have vastly different settings & themes so that's guaranteed. The core design principles are largely the same that approximate to a similar overall experience in gameplay, closest you will ever get to one another anyway aside from the OGs (Underworld and Shock 1) though even those are very different, as the concepts & technology were in their infancy.

Obra dinn.
Meh. Puzzle games. They're all the same to me, one basic task to tackle at a time, just with a different gimmick. Not played this particular one though, it could transcend genre convention in a major way though I very much doubt it! Gift me the game and I'll play it. Explain that it has deep asf highly engaging gameplay and I'll play it. Otherwise :handwave:
 
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Jaedar

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Meh. Puzzle games. They're all the same to me, one basic task to tackle at a time, just with a different gimmick. Not played this particular one though, it could transcend genre convention in a major way though I very much doubt it! Gift me the game and I'll play it. Explain that it has deep asf highly engaging gameplay and I'll play it. Otherwise :handwave:
Calling it a puzzle game is a bit of a false classification. Puzzle games tend to fall into two categories: newspaper puzzles (crosswords, sudoku, and things like that with very clear rules) and adventure games (use old manuscript on strange dog and other logic (or "logic") to progress).
Obra dinn is a deduction game. You are presented with a series of 3d scenes that you can walk around in and observe, but not interact with. Your mission is to account for the fate of every crewmember of the ship by observing these scenes. It has a demo https://dukope.itch.io/return-of-the-obra-dinn .
There is no mechanical skill involved, but there is a lot of thinking, and even minor details can be very important so there is definitely perception and exploration involved.
 

Ash

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hmm, may play with my chick. They love that kind of thing. Still sounds pretty boring but I mix it up with these types of games on very rare occasion. Or those real world escape room things which are puzzles and deduction.

Personally I would still consider deduction/investigation games as puzzle games, or a sub-genre of puzzle, but whatever.
 

v1c70r14

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I've played all kinds of shit since, I guess the most similar was Blackguards 2, but is there anything closer?
Warlords: Battlecry 2 and 3 are kinda unique because they were spinoffs of the Warlords series which leans more towards HoMM, and bundled that with the RTS gameplay that was popular in the early 2000's with SSG reusing a bunch of art from Warlords 3, and kept reusing the assets in the Battlecry series, while putting new twists on how that was presented.

Warlords: Battlecry, the first game, had a fairly normal campaign with branching paths, and there are many games like it, with Battlecry 2 they introduced a sort of RISK-esque map and there are a few games that do something to that extent, Dawn of War introduced it in their Dark Crusade stand-alone expansion, and Battle for Middle-Earth 2 had something similar going on with their conquest of Middle-Earth mode or what they called it.

The format SSG reached was never replicated because it was very much a game of its time and the RTS genre died in the grand scheme of things shortly afterwards. If you switch genres you might get something similar, like the very good King's Bounty revival games from Katauri, that lets you roam a large overworld map and engage in turn-based tactical gameplay with a persistent hero and armies. It's not the same at all as Battlecry in terms of art, and you're not doing 2000's RTS basebuilding, but it wants to do similar things conceptually as Battlecry 3 did.

Perhaps another game that comes close is Creative Assembly's Warhammer games, they feature a menagerie of roughtly the same fantasy cliche factions, and in large quanitities with varying units, as well as hero units, with an overworld map that you conquer by individual battles taking place in zoomed in instances on the map. It's Total War based, which is very mechanically and stylistically different from traditional RTS games. But you're still having roughtly the same selection of races, dark elves, evil dwarvers, barbarians, demons and all that, and you're fighting skirmish battles in real time on a turn-based overworld map.

I could go on mentioning games that have fragments of the design principles, but other users have already given good suggestions, and I think there is a question that needs to be asked and haven't yet. Why aren't you just replaying the original games again that you like, and if you want to see them changed in some way, what would that be? What direction would you like to see it being taken? Is the typical loop of basebuilding, resource mining, and producing unit in the style of post-Dune 2 until roughtly Warcraft 3 RTS conventions something that is a dealbreaker? Would you like to see a further emphasis on the RPG parts of the game, something like the new Spellforce games? Or perhaps you'd be happy playing something turn-based and more tactical like the Heroes of Might and Magic games? Basically, what would you like to see being done differently since you're asking for more?

Personally I'm content with all the classics or those obscure games I played and liked, both those that had suppoed spiritual successors and those that nobody attempted to follow up on. Nobody will make another game with the same atmosphere and gameplay as Disciples II for example, and that's fine, I don't think anyone would be up for it and what woul the point of a remake be?

When I hear that someone wants something like X, what comes to my mind is instead other media that hasn't been explored in video games and would make for great foundations for games. It can be a setting, time period, mythology, or heck, even a movie that someone watched and wanted in game form. One of those ideas that only exists in another medium than video games, and that I'd like to see explored is Blame!, the manga, because I always liked exploration in video games and good science fiction is way too rare, and either the license or the license with the serial numbers filed off alone would be great material to base a video game on. It could be a dungeon crawler, or an action game with a further emphasis on exploration, or it could be an ASCII roguelike, or it might be a first person shooter. It doesn't matter, I just want to see a game whose core focus is on sketchy transhumanist far-future struggles inside and surrounding megastructures that are seemingly endless, preferably done with the help of someone with a background in architecture.

Actually, just give me any game genuinely and talantedly influenced by Giovanni Battista Piranesi, and I'm going to drool over it. But maybe that's expecting too much from simple video games.
 

v1c70r14

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Obra dinn. (I am aware of golden idol, but it's not quite the same)
Outer wilds.
What makes these games so great is that they both have totally unique visions and you couldn't churn these out like CoD, FIFA or Assassin's Creed games and retain the impact. Everything about them follows from a vision of what the developers wanted to deliver to the player. Ironically Obra Dinn is a lot like Outer Wilds. You're arriving in both cases to a location after the fact, and you're left to your own devices in reconstructing what happened, it's like if Bioshock was a good game whose gameplay was harmonized with the setting and gameworld.

In either case you can't just copy and paste the formula and get something new with the same results. Repetition breeds contempt. How many star systems could you plunk the player down onto, with the same mechanics, same abandoned ruins and time loops before it got stale? How many abandoned vessels could you figure out before you started getting fatigue from the pattern? My takeaway from those experiences is that I really like investigative games that don't hold your hand or is overly scripted or movie-like but let you out into the world of their mystery to discover it for yourself.

If you haven't played it you owe it to yourself to play Riven. It's not more of the same, radically different from both of those, but it's also the first game that comes to mind when it comes to how the player experiences the game and what the developers wanted to deliver.
 

Jaedar

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Personally I would still consider deduction/investigation games as puzzle games, or a sub-genre of puzzle, but whatever.
Oh for sure, that is not unreasonable. But it is a pretty notably different subcategory.
Or those real world escape room things which are puzzles and deduction.
Those tend to be very adventure game like though. Not a bad thing, just different.
If you haven't played it you owe it to yourself to play Riven. It's not more of the same, radically different from both of those, but it's also the first game that comes to mind when it comes to how the player experiences the game and what the developers wanted to deliver.
I played Riven as a kid and never got far, and at some point I watched an lp so I kinda spoiled it for myself :(. Maybe if I wait another few years the memories will fade enough that it'll be interesting to solve myself.
 

Dr Skeleton

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I was thinking if there was anything truly good and totally unique that stands alone, but nope, absolutely everything good has been cloned and iterated upon (or declined) at least once. As it damn well should.

So, fun game for the codex: try to name a game that is genuinely really good (at least 8/10) that stands alone with no close counterpart.
Majesty. It has some RTS and citybuilder aspects, some similarities to Dungeon Keeper, but I think it stands on its own. Other than Majesty 2, which is mostly just a worse Majesty, I can't think of any games that tried to replicate it.
 

luj1

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I was thinking if there was anything truly good and totally unique that stands alone, but nope, absolutely everything good has been cloned and iterated upon (or declined) at least once. As it damn well should.

So, fun game for the codex: try to name a game that is genuinely really good (at least 8/10) that stands alone with no close counterpart.

At least some of these games have never been replicated: Sacrifice, Black and White, Giants Citizen Kabuto, Star Control 2, Deus Ex, Betrayal at Krondor...
 

Axioms

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I was thinking if there was anything truly good and totally unique that stands alone, but nope, absolutely everything good has been cloned and iterated upon (or declined) at least once. As it damn well should.

So, fun game for the codex: try to name a game that is genuinely really good (at least 8/10) that stands alone with no close counterpart.
Majesty. It has some RTS and citybuilder aspects, some similarities to Dungeon Keeper, but I think it stands on its own. Other than Majesty 2, which is mostly just a worse Majesty, I can't think of any games that tried to replicate it.
Driftlands: The Magic Revival. Hinterlands. Another game I saw Splattercat play once that I forgot the name of. And a few others. Certainly nothing AA or AAA though.
 

v1c70r14

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I played Riven as a kid and never got far, and at some point I watched an lp so I kinda spoiled it for myself :(.
:hug:

That sucks, there are many game genres that you don't lose out on much from looking up gameplay of online, either because they are centered around a core gameplay loop or mechanic that is the most fun experienced for yourself and you can't be spoiled on, or if it's a movie game or a VN, what's the difference really if you watch that on youtube or not? This niche is different since if you already have the solutions and know where things are and how they interplay you have no reason to investigate for yourself and it kills the joy of playing them. And since there are so few of them that makes ruining them by not going in blind even worse.

If you're into what Outer Wilds does and you made the mistake of watching a playthrough before playing the game yourself, then you're screwed since it's a one in a million game and you were lucky to see Outer Wilds alone. I guess that's one of the weaknesses of the format, spoilers truly hurt it, and unlike some genre classics that people are returning to you can't keep playing them making the time between such games feel like an eternity, meanwhile there are posters on the Codex still pressing next turn in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, or playing Doom or Thief fan levels. It's worth it though, since there is nothing else quite like it, and for me at least, it's the source of some of the most memorable experiences you can have with a video game. When you're sitting down with a notepad and a cup of hot tea, milk, no sugar, and you're treating the game as a British 1700's naturalist would the tropics or the New World, or an archeologist the untouched parts of Egypt, then you know that the artificial world the game presents to the player is worthwhile and made more real than usually is the case.

Some RPGs have a quantity of this, but most don't. To tie this together with the thread topic, I sure could use some recommendations for more of this, whatever you'd like to call this category of game. They're the sort of game that you can speedrun in a very short period of time, but this is also the point, they don't put up artificial barriers or lead you through a pre-determined roller coaster, but rather drops the player into a realized game world, usually a limited area, like how Outer Wilds scaled down a solar system to get that just right, or Obra Dinn took place on a single ship, and leaving it up to the player to figure it out.
 

Stormcrowfleet

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Any games like King of Dragon Pass (or its follow up like Six Ages and Six Ages 2)?
 

3 others

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Any games like King of Dragon Pass (or its follow up like Six Ages and Six Ages 2)?
They're a very unique series of games and nothing's quite similar to them, but Suzerain probably comes closest in combining a multiple choice CYOA with some underlying economic/diplomatic systems.
 

Machocruz

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Shadowrun on the Genesis. There are games that are similar but always missing the mark. The grit, the top down view, simple-yet-detailed character development and cyber implant system, hacking, corpo raiding, random events, lethal real-time combat, top down view. Flawed for sure, but a wonderful soup of ingredients.

Similar to that, I'm digging the look of Quasimorph but I'm waiting for it to come further along. I'm looking for anything else with a similar gritty future, lethal top down gunplay, tactical/methodical play, satisfying combat feedback, immersive. I know there's Doom RL and Jupiter Hell, but the visuals don't do it for me. Hotline Miami, but it's not dark future. Underrail I'm already playing, which also scratches the Shadowrun itch a bit. Zero Seivert? Halfway?
 

Falksi

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Shadowrun on the Genesis. There are games that are similar but always missing the mark. The grit, the top down view, simple-yet-detailed character development and cyber implant system, hacking, corpo raiding, random events, lethal real-time combat, top down view. Flawed for sure, but a wonderful soup of ingredients.

Similar to that, I'm digging the look of Quasimorph but I'm waiting for it to come further along. I'm looking for anything else with a similar gritty future, lethal top down gunplay, tactical/methodical play, satisfying combat feedback, immersive. I know there's Doom RL and Jupiter Hell, but the visuals don't do it for me. Hotline Miami, but it's not dark future. Underrail I'm already playing, which also scratches the Shadowrun itch a bit. Zero Seivert? Halfway?
You probably already know this, but BlueSky Software who made SEGA Shadowrun also made Technoclash for the same system. Doesn't hit the spot as well, but it's still got elements of Shadowrun which I'd say make it worth checking out. It's kind of a 6.5/10 game.
 

Stormcrowfleet

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Any games like King of Dragon Pass (or its follow up like Six Ages and Six Ages 2)?
They're a very unique series of games and nothing's quite similar to them, but Suzerain probably comes closest in combining a multiple choice CYOA with some underlying economic/diplomatic systems.
Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I already know of Suzerain. Really feels like there ain't much like the old KoDP.
 

Machocruz

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You probably already know this, but BlueSky Software who made SEGA Shadowrun also made Technoclash for the same system. Doesn't hit the spot as well, but it's still got elements of Shadowrun which I'd say make it worth checking out. It's kind of a 6.5/10 game.
Nope, never heard of it actually. Took a look at some footage. It's got the aesthetic if nothing else. I've been on this grim, aggressive, heavy metal sci-fi kick lately, etc. Think 2000AD comics, 40K, Metal Hurlant, Mutant Chronicles, etc.
 

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